Hon the black card, bring it on.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 08/12/2013 21:52:44    1521731

KingdomBoy1
County: Kerry
Posts: 1448

1521731 Hon the black card, bring it on.

oh ye :)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 08/12/2013 21:57:22    1521734

its a joke , gonna be terrible for small clubs who can hardly field 15 as it is...

gman30 (Galway) - Posts: 100 - 09/12/2013 11:20:12    1521779

I can see the reason to do something but I think this will solve nothing. I base this on one example: Sean Cavanagh's tackle v Monaghan as it was the most talked about from 2013.
What happened:
Monaghan player clean through, Cavanagh pulls him down, free in, yellow card. Monaghan get a point, Cavanagh stays on the field. Tyrone win
If the black card was in place:
Monaghan player clean through, Cavanagh pulls him down, free in, black card. Monaghan get a point, Cavanagh gets substituted. Tyrone win
The result is all that matters at this level and faced with the same dilemma again any player will do the same to get the final result. In both cases above the result stays the same and Monaghan are out, Tyrone go through.

The black card might cut out the cynical fouls during the game but won't in the last 5 - 10 minutes when the result is in the balance, ala Dublins last 5 minutes in this year All Ireland final. Managers and players will get cute to the black card before the championship arrives next year!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 09/12/2013 11:42:47    1521787

Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal
Posts: 740

1521787
I can see the reason to do something but I think this will solve nothing. I base this on one example: Sean Cavanagh's tackle v Monaghan as it was the most talked about from 2013.
What happened:
Monaghan player clean through, Cavanagh pulls him down, free in, yellow card. Monaghan get a point, Cavanagh stays on the field. Tyrone win
If the black card was in place:
Monaghan player clean through, Cavanagh pulls him down, free in, black card. Monaghan get a point, Cavanagh gets substituted. Tyrone win
The result is all that matters at this level and faced with the same dilemma again any player will do the same to get the final result. In both cases above the result stays the same and Monaghan are out, Tyrone go through.

The black card might cut out the cynical fouls during the game but won't in the last 5 - 10 minutes when the result is in the balance, ala Dublins last 5 minutes in this year All Ireland final. Managers and players will get cute to the black card before the championship arrives next year!!

Well if the black card was in when Cavanagh committed that foul and Tyrone already had 3 black cards, they would be down to 14 as only 3 players can be substituted for black card offences. If a team has had 3 black cards in the first half of the game they will have to be very careful in the second half as any black cards received by them means they will not be able to utilise a sub.

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 09/12/2013 14:21:37    1521837

donkeyford
You are right but I can guarantee when teams get more used to this rule it will be very strange to see black cards in the first half of games. Players will become wise and only use cynical fouls if absolutely necessary.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 09/12/2013 14:45:14    1521842

Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal
Posts: 741

1521842
donkeyford
You are right but I can guarantee when teams get more used to this rule it will be very strange to see black cards in the first half of games. Players will become wise and only use cynical fouls if absolutely necessary.



Isn't that the point of having the black card? To cut down on the cynical fouling? It will never really be stamped out 100% but remember there are 5 black card offences, not just the 3 main playing ones that a lot of people are going on about.. They might get wise to the 3 fouls but how many of the players will get wise to the other 2 infringements?

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 09/12/2013 18:58:03    1521958

Tomsmith here

One thing for certain the bench will influence weak referees in relation to black cards.
What will happen now is that the opposing manager will be calling Referee that is his second personal foul.
A good player will be the target of managers to get him lined.
I know one club in my home County that will set a target before each game to get players from my Club black carded.
Along with the black card rule for players a black card rule should be introduced for team managers and mentors who prompt referees to take unfair actions.
Just remember where you read this first that the black card rule will be an explosive issue ie Hoganstand and author was Tomsmith

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 11/12/2013 10:31:08    1522489

tomsmith
County: Cavan
Posts: 2004

1522489
Tomsmith here

One thing for certain the bench will influence weak referees in relation to black cards.
What will happen now is that the opposing manager will be calling Referee that is his second personal foul.
A good player will be the target of managers to get him lined.
I know one club in my home County that will set a target before each game to get players from my Club black carded.
Along with the black card rule for players a black card rule should be introduced for team managers and mentors who prompt referees to take unfair actions.
Just remember where you read this first that the black card rule will be an explosive issue ie Hoganstand and author was Tomsmith


Nail on the head. That should have been introduced as well. It won't affect me as a referee as I don't stand for it as it is but it will certainly affect weaker referees. Mind you, referees should be reporting interference from the management(s) too and by not doing so leads to certain managers thinking they can do and say as they like. When managers are seen to be getting away with that kind of carry-on, then players think they can do and say as they please. Bans, fines and expulsion/suspensions from competitions might make some of these idiots wake up and realise that the only people they are affecting are fellow club members.

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 11/12/2013 16:14:21    1522658

Tomsmith here

Donkeyford I will take bets how long will the black card rule last before all hell breaks loose.
I say that it will end in disaster once a high profile player is lined.
Forget the Sean Cavanagh tackle we has enough rules and cards even Ticks to deal with with all current situations

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 15/12/2013 17:10:09    1523893

o doubt this will be biggest disaster in gaa history [ saying something] it will be gone by summer such will be the uproar

stmunn (Wexford) - Posts: 181 - 15/12/2013 17:29:53    1523902

no doubt this will be biggest disaster in gaa history [ saying something] it will be gone by summer such will be the uproar

stmunn (Wexford) - Posts: 181 - 15/12/2013 17:30:20    1523903

I heard a good interview on radio Kerry this evening with pat mcaneny , when the black card is explained properly it's not a bad new rule and it's in the players and coaches own hands , if a coach sends his players out to win at all costs and that includes Eamon fitzmaurice and they lose one of there best players to a black cards then they only have them selfs to blame, I'm a traditionalist and I usually hate change but I think this is a positive move by the GAA to get cynical play out of the game, roll on jan the 1st.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 15/12/2013 17:54:19    1523920

Tomsmith here

Kingdom Boy

It took a bit of going but I now have listened to that Monaghan Referee Mc Enaney who in my opinion went with the new rule because he could not do otherwise.
If you listen again to him he espouses all that is good about the new rule, but then again he is coming from the rules side.
He also stated that it will help the game.
I would hate to see the game being brought into disorder on the 1/1/2014 but I feel come the first few high profile departures that we will have a complete rethink on the this crazy rule.
God help the referees who should wear earmuffs as certainly the bench is now going to get players lined by shouting ref that his second/third foul.
It is long past the time that one of the top Referees speaks out and tells us what it is going to be ,like ie mayhem/ complete disorganised control.
But a word of warning to whoever/what ever Referee that speaks out, make sure that you are departing the top flight scene as the GAA top brass as no time for people that speak out

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 19/12/2013 10:40:01    1525194

Tom anyone shouting from the line about the number of fouls a player makes would appear to be uninformed on the new rules and so shouldnt be listened to anyway. The number of fouls you make has no impact on whether a player is black carded or not, it is the type of misdemeanour a player commits that will do that! Is there any issue in Cavan football at the moment with lads on the line shouting for yellow and red cards, and if so do you think we should do away with the idea of booking or sending players off?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 19/12/2013 11:21:47    1525208

A deliberate foul is committed to disrupt play/ prevent a score, a black card may not necessarily prevent this, particularly in the last few minutes. Why not just award a penalty no matter where the offence happens. Simulation should warrant a similar penalty to prevent players trying to buy decisions.

MB1 (Tyrone) - Posts: 360 - 19/12/2013 21:21:44    1525467

Tom I'm sorry but I've got to disagree with you, I think the new rule is gona make the refs job a lot easier in fairness , it'l be away clearer now even to the people in the stand when we see a cynical foul we'll all know that the player is getting a black card and there can't be any arguments from any1 , it's gona take a bit of getting used to and I admit it's gona take it's toll on small clubs for a while but I'm sure we can adapt and if it's given a chance it'l be a good rule change.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 20/12/2013 10:00:33    1525513

Tomsmith here


Kindgom BOy 1 I feel you are not aware of the ramifications of this new rule
I was at a Meath V Cavan game yesterday played in Oldcastle see report below.....
The Westmeath official issued 4 black cards, 3 to Meath players and one to Cavan. First to go was Breffni full foward Eugene Keating, next was Stephen Bray, already on a yellow, while Seanie Curran and Dalton McDonagh also saw black in the second half.

Tomsmith back here again. And Kindgom I feel that at least one of the sendings off were as a result of the shouting.
I say scrap this rule right away. We have ticks, yellow cards and red cards and now we have black card sending offs.
Scrap it and lets get our game back to the good old days of contact sport where a player could hit a maanly shoulder and not get sidelined

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 30/12/2013 11:36:36    1526621

I agree with gman30, it's going to be terrible for small clubs who are struggling to field a team. The powers that be have forgotten about the grass roots and only had inter county football in mind when this was brought in. And as well intentioned as it is, it's not going to work.
If you want to get rid of cynical fouling you hurt the team not the player.
A 14 yard free in front of the goals should be the punishment for a cynical foul no matter where the foul took place. Then after the free, the attacking team gets the ball back on the halfway line.

The Face (Monaghan) - Posts: 890 - 02/01/2014 09:05:07    1526771

Tomsmith here

I have a suggestion that we have a Country wide poll organised by Hoganstand after 6 months and see what we Gaa people think of it.
Have a delegation travel up to Croke park and present the results( which will be scrap this rule if it is implemented as planned) to the GAA Headquarters at Croke park up in Dublin.
Alternatively send up a delegation right now and say enough is enough scrap it now

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 02/01/2014 21:16:14    1527050