Simple solution there then for the 'cheat manager' lads.....save one sub until the end and get all the rest of your team to commit the cynical fouls before you put your last sub on!!!......Simples!!!

No matter what way you want to look at it, it is open season for 'defacto subbing'!!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 04/12/2013 14:12:14    1520487

It is no more open to abuse than the blood sub rule snuf.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 04/12/2013 14:20:18    1520498

I must admit to a certain unease about this proposition but I think we will have to see how it works out.

Who knows it might just work as intended & if it does then our games will be immesurabely improved.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 04/12/2013 14:20:24    1520499

You are wrong Snuf.

There are a maximum TOTAL of 6 subs allowed. It does not matter if you none of them are used for black cards. If you use all 6 subs and then you're team starts cynically fouling and get black cards, they cannot be replaced.

For anyone that is interested.

The following is the hand-out that was given to referees at a recent in-service course:

FOOTBALL RULE CHANGES


The Gaelic Football Rule changes which become operative on 1st January 2014 are as follows:

1. Introduction of a Black Card for Cynical Behaviour Fouls.
2. Change in the number of substitutes allowed
3. Distinction between Deliberate and Accidental Fouls
4. Definition of the Tackle
5. Introduction of a clearer Advantage Rule
6. A player in possession may score a point with an open-handed hand-pass


Cynical Behaviour Fouls

1. Deliberately pull down an opponent
2. Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg, or foot
3. Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play
4. Threaten or use to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official

The penalty for the above fouls are:
i. Free kick from where the foul occurred
ii. Order Off offender by showing him a Black Card*
iii. Allow a replacement from within the substitutes permitted*

* Substitutes

- Increased to SIX per team
- Maximum of THREE permitted for Black Card Offenders

Immediate Ordering Off Infractions (Straight Red Cards) are UNCHANGED

Yellow card offences and Noting infractions remain unchanged.


NEW DISCIPLINARY SYSTEM:

RED CARD: Player Ordered off & NOT replaced by a Substitute

YELLOW CARD: Player Cautioned & Name taken

BLACK CARD: Player Sent Off and replaced by Substitute

2 Yellows and a Red = Player sent off and not replaced by a substitute

Yellow and Black = Red. Player sent off and not replaced by a substitute.


All cards are to be recorded by the county administration and various suspensions to be given for cumulative cards. e.g.

If a player receives a black card he does not receive any further suspension apart from being suspended from playing the remainder of the game in which he receives the black card.

However, should he receive a two yellows or a yellow + black within 48 weeks he is liable to a two week suspension...

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 04/12/2013 14:38:58    1520504

04/12/2013 14:12:14
Snufalufagus
County: Dublin
Posts: 7176

1520487
Simple solution there then for the 'cheat manager' lads.....save one sub until the end and get all the rest of your team to commit the cynical fouls before you put your last sub on!!!......Simples!!!

No matter what way you want to look at it, it is open season for 'defacto subbing'!!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Did ye not read the info on the link I posted to you? 6 SUBS. When all subs are used the black card is then treated as a red for the rest of the game.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 04/12/2013 14:47:55    1520508

I'm very worried about how this will all pan out, particularly for the smaller rural clubs.

ringo (Wexford) - Posts: 384 - 04/12/2013 14:49:27    1520509

Of the Six Subs only 3 are allowed for Black Cards if you have used up three black and have three remaining subs you cannot bring them on and they don't carry over into extra time.

Of more concern is the new 5 second advantage rule - thats an age in football.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 04/12/2013 14:51:08    1520512

Yes Ringo, it will affect the smaller rural clubs who only have the bare minimum of say 21 players or less on a panel. If a club has the bare minimum of 21 players (or less) and they have all the subs used either through regular substitutions, black cards or injuries and someone gets injured or black carded they will be at a numerical disadvantage..

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 04/12/2013 14:54:27    1520514

At under-age level this will be a nightmare. The standard of refereeing is already inconsistent at best. It will be interesting to see how many refs will actually apply to it the 3 fouls that it is to be used for. I can see some who currently just let everything go who will just ignore it completely. Others especially when it comes to a game with the potential for a bit of niggle will fire black cards out like confetti ignoring the fact that it only applies to certain infringements.

RoverTin (Derry) - Posts: 226 - 04/12/2013 15:04:11    1520524

I'm not sure how this black card rule will turn out, but I'm not entirely sure we had an issue with the rules. For me the refereeing standard and especially the respect for referees is the main problem in GAA. I thought things might change when they appointed McEnaney head of refs but nothing yet. Refs need to be more consistent (perhaps rules need to be clarified better but not necessarily changed) and also demand more respect. If the refs go out in the league and send off players for dissent, send them off for cynical fouls, just command the pitch and demand respect like happens in Rugby there would be no need for rule changes. Pat McEnaneys games used to flow, and he rarely blew the whistle because he used common sense was consistent and the players knew what to expect from him. Why he wasn't hired as a full time referee and asked to referee as many games as he could possibly fit into his schedule I'll never know.

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 04/12/2013 15:15:05    1520528

Rover Tin, there are 5 infringements that the Black card applies to NOT 3. See my post above.

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 04/12/2013 15:17:11    1520530

JMK, I'm hoping that the black card will go a long way with helping us referees to get to the same level of respect that rugby referees get. It has to start at a under 8s though and eventually we will get there. But there has to be sanctions and punishments brought in for managers and team officials as well. Some of them are the main cause of a lot of disrespect for referees.

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 04/12/2013 15:23:37    1520536

Donkeyford, I agree with you there should be more disciplinary action taken against clubs who show no respect from the sideline. Refereeing really needs to be a dictatorship while on the field. There were far too many soft referees when I was playing back home, and events afterwards where the ref was abused weren't dealt with either. Fines to clubs would force clubs to take action and ensure repect was given.

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 04/12/2013 15:45:21    1520549

JMK, every club has a good few nutters who think the referee is fair game, my own included. Large fines would be a good start as that would affect every member of the club and maybe they could all get together and do something about those individuals then. Also, suspensions and if the abuse is serious enough, including laying a hand on a referee or his officials, then throw the club/county out of the competition. Now I know this would be drastic but it would make members sit up and take notice.

I refereed in St. Pauls in Belfast once and they have plenty of signs up around saying that "abuse of referees and match officials will not be tolerated at this club and will be dealt with severely". No disrespect or abuse at all that day. Extremely enjoyable day refereeing and great welcome into the clubhouse for grub etc after the game.

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 04/12/2013 15:55:17    1520552

And donkeyford, that's exactly what's needed. The GAA and referees in particular need to stop taking s**t off players and fans alike. Even bad rugby refs have respect, and that's what needs to be aimed for. Great to hear that some clubs are making that effort and that implementing it can work!!

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 04/12/2013 17:47:21    1520603

Donkeyford I know there are 5 but 2 of them are to do with abuse of players and officials. It's the 3 that relate to play that will be the ones that can result in the ref having a massive influence on the outcome of a game based on what we already see week in week out. All for clamping down on cynical play but referees are already inconsistent in applying existing rules.

RoverTin (Derry) - Posts: 226 - 05/12/2013 10:34:57    1520748

RoverTin, I would agree that some referees are inconsistent. The best thing that can happen here is that in the first month of operation of the new system is that referees dish those black cards for the 5 infringements as many times as possible.Put the onus on the players to behave and show some respect. I, for one, will be taking no more ***** from anyone starting in January. I'm going to be way more strict on dissent and abuse from players and managers.

donkeyford (Limerick) - Posts: 119 - 05/12/2013 11:50:55    1520800

Tomsmith here

I see Derry's Declan Mullen becomes the first player to receive a black card.
I wonder who will be the last before it is withdrawn

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 07/12/2013 21:25:53    1521510

this rule wont be withdrawn

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 08/12/2013 20:42:58    1521700

do people know all the black card rules - such as a yellow + a black = a red, and no substitute, the rules with extra time, and that black cards carry over in inter-county

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 08/12/2013 20:45:19    1521702