The true level of Irish rugby will be determined by our upcoming performances in the 6 nations

IMO we are behind Wales, England and France

The last 3 games have been very erratic but they were only "friendlies"

The performance against Australia was alarming... the performance against the All Blacks (albeit not full strength but still better than Ireland squad) could only be seen as encouraging

I guess Schmidt needs time... he's working towards the 6 nations

My own feelings is that Irish rugby has been well over hyped for a number of years now and since winning the slam Ireland haven't progressed and have in fact been in decline.

Compare to our record to Wales over the last 10 years or so... that's the true reflection.

Thin there's a bot of a green tint around this Ireland team and has been for quite sometime.

Provincial success should not be mixed up with International success...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/11/2013 14:08:59    1518001

Ormondbannerman
England/France have much bigger resources than us so should be much more capable of beating them. Welsh when they beat them had prob their 2nd best side ever(best side ever couldn't beat BNZ in the 70s) with Cliff Morgan etc
It is a very unique achievement to beat them. Look at their record and how they play the game

Didnt you reply with a post yesterday stating it is not about resources but what you do with them? That is why I repeat the fact that more Irish people actually play rugby than in New Zealand yet we have never been good enough to beat them, which shows how you use your resources is the most important thing once you get above a certain level. Interestingly at a younger age NZ rugby players are grouped not just by age but also by weight, so big lads play against big lads and small against small, instead of all 10 year olds playing together and all 12 year olds playing together. For a game like rugby that does seem a more clever use of resources. Not something we need in the more skilled GAA games though before anyone suggests such an idea!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/11/2013 14:09:38    1518002

Soma why would you think GAA is more skilled , get the ball and kick it as far away as you can , no set plays no having to think on your feet , GAA is a game for failed soccer and rugby players in my opinion.

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 26/11/2013 14:44:53    1518021

Tinrylandman

The GAA is an association not a game. Now that that is cleared up, what are you doing on a forum where mostly GAA matters are discussed if the games that come under the auspices of the GAA are for failed soccer or rugby players.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 26/11/2013 15:00:13    1518033

That is an interesting angle to take on a GAA forum Tinrylandman. Considering Irelands most capped ever forward (and 3rd most capped player) took up the game of rugby for the first time ever when he was 18, and the man who has captained Wales more times than any other player in their history took up the sport for a laugh when he was 17 (there are loads more examples), I would say the skill level in rugby is very basic and it tends to be played by lads who probably would not be sufficiently talented to be a success at other sports. Try to find a gaelic footballer or hurler who has played at intercounty level without ever playing the game before the age of 18, they do not exist because you need to be working at the skills required from the youngest of ages. A game that has lots of set pieces tends to have less of a requirement for participants to think on theier feet so I am interested to understand how you think rugby manages both and the GAA sports manage neither. Of course if you think gaelic football could be improved by having an increased number of set pieces such as sideline kicks I would be interested in you expanding on this idea further and showing us your thinking behind it. However if it is going to be of the same quality as your last post it might be worth having someone else look at it for you before pressing 'add message'.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/11/2013 15:33:50    1518064

KingdomBoy1
County: Kerry
Posts: 1410

1517829
Ronan o Gara would have scored it, there was no one better under pressure.


never mind o gara ,ian madigan would have scored it if he was brought on a minute earlier.
took way too long over it,when you take that long its always bad sign as it shows your thinking too much.
after all it was only about 20 yards out not even hard angle

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/11/2013 17:34:49    1518138

26/11/2013 14:09:38
Soma
Didnt you reply with a post yesterday stating it is not about resources but what you do with them? That is why I repeat the fact that more Irish people actually play rugby than in New Zealand yet we have never been good enough to beat them, which shows how you use your resources is the most important thing once you get above a certain level. Interestingly at a younger age NZ rugby players are grouped not just by age but also by weight, so big lads play against big lads and small against small, instead of all 10 year olds playing together and all 12 year olds playing together. For a game like rugby that does seem a more clever use of resources. Not something we need in the more skilled GAA games though before anyone suggests such an idea! More at underage do but they dwarf our figures at the moment at adult level but we are increasing year on year our figures.
Its only recently that we have had more playing than new Zealand and even now we just have more than them but not a lot.
anyway if it was simply by numbers then south Africa and england would have won every world cup and numbers mean a bit but its how you deal with what you have and NZ have the best coaches(why do you think so many coaches in Ireland in provinces, irish set up are from nz)
The splitting up of players by weight is only at the younger age groups and is to counter the Polynesian influence as the Polynesian kids develop differently to white kids and are physically more mature earlier and that causes issues ie weight limit for u13 level is 85kg.
Splitting by weight would be pointless in most other sports which are not as confrontational in nature as rugby is.

26/11/2013 15:33:50 Soma
That is an interesting angle to take on a GAA forum Tinrylandman. Considering Irelands most capped ever forward (and 3rd most capped player) took up the game of rugby for the first time ever when he was 18, and the man who has captained Wales more times than any other player in their history took up the sport for a laugh when he was 17 (there are loads more examples), I would say the skill level in rugby is very basic and it tends to be played by lads who probably would not be sufficiently talented to be a success at other sports. Try to find a gaelic footballer or hurler who has played at intercounty level without ever playing the game before the age of 18, they do not exist because you need to be working at the skills required from the youngest of ages. A game that has lots of set pieces tends to have less of a requirement for participants to think on theier feet so I am interested to understand how you think rugby manages both and the GAA sports manage neither. Of course if you think gaelic football could be improved by having an increased number of set pieces such as sideline kicks I would be interested in you expanding on this idea further and showing us your thinking behind it. However if it is going to be of the same quality as your last post it might be worth having someone else look at it for you before pressing 'add message'.
Don't mean to be rude but you haven't a clue if you think the basic skill level in rugby is very basic. It is not. It was for most of the time in the amateur era but as professionalism evolved the sport evolved and it is incredibly skilful now.
Very hard to make comparisons with GAA considering how it is infiltrated into every orifice of Ireland
Again you are showing a lack of knowledge where you think in rugby people have to think less on their feet.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/11/2013 18:16:49    1518166

I think if Irish figures show we have more adult players than NZ, it's safe to say the figures are a big spoof

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 26/11/2013 18:36:49    1518178

There's simply no way that Ireland can reproduce that intensity over the 6 nations. It's 5 games in 7 weeks and Ireland are too reliant on older players who won't be able to physically produce that kind of performance. 3 home wins (The Lions revenge mission v Wales should yield a home win). England are good upfront but their back play is so pedestrian that we could nick that game and then you could have a winner take all game in Paris on the last day which will depend on which French and Irish teams turn up.

The Face (Monaghan) - Posts: 890 - 26/11/2013 18:53:03    1518186

tinrylandman
County: Carlow
Posts: 263

Very silly comment to make. Wouldn't exactly call the likes of Tomas o'leary or Rob kearney failed GAA players. I'm certain O'leary would of won an AI with Cork and Rob Kearney probaly could have made it into any football team in the country on atletism alone.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 26/11/2013 18:54:13    1518187

as a matter of interest how many countries in world is rugby the number. one sport in?

stmunn (Wexford) - Posts: 181 - 27/11/2013 09:26:28    1518268

Strnunn interesting question. There's a reasonable assumption that kiwis and south Africa would be rugby first, while cricket would also be up there, Australia also but that's a continent :) again cricket and Aussie rules might be ahead, because the UK has so many native sports, its impossible to say where it would rank, but soccer is the number one. As for us? We hold ourselves very well in rugby compared to other international sports.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/11/2013 10:08:45    1518276

What about Tonga, Fiji, Samoa etc? would they have rugby as their number 1 sport?

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 27/11/2013 10:21:13    1518282

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 5087

1518276
Strnunn interesting question. There's a reasonable assumption that kiwis and south Africa would be rugby first, while cricket would also be up there, Australia also but that's a continent :) again cricket and Aussie rules might be ahead, because the UK has so many native sports, its impossible to say where it would rank, but soccer is the number one. As for us? We hold ourselves very well in rugby compared to other international sports.

South Africa? There's more to SA than just the Afrikaners man. A lot more.

Afaik Rugby union is behind Rules, Cricket and League in Oz.

Only country I'd imagine where rugby union is number one would be NZ, as well as maybe some of those tiny Pacific Island nations that play rugby.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 27/11/2013 10:21:23    1518283

What countries will Ireland have to compete with to get
the 2023 World Cup?? France?? Australia??

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 27/11/2013 10:56:53    1518306

its not number 1 in new zeland or aus i hear thats what promted the question

stmunn (Wexford) - Posts: 181 - 27/11/2013 11:55:31    1518338

Id say NZ, Wales , Fiji, Samoa and Tonga have rugby as their number one sport.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 27/11/2013 12:28:32    1518355

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxARXRqSHUA

Think rugby is a lot more popular than most of you think

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 27/11/2013 12:55:19    1518371

Wales?

RU is a 4th rate sport in Oz behind RL, Cricket & AFL.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 27/11/2013 13:19:22    1518383

thinking that real dub its surprising rugby leading sport in very very few countries just a few islands i think

stmunn (Wexford) - Posts: 181 - 27/11/2013 14:40:37    1518414