If he would have kicked that 99 times out of 100, does that not suggest that he did indeed bottle it? There are reasons why certain teams are serial losers. Irish rugby team punches well above its weight in that regard :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 25/11/2013 18:15:46    1517722

Didn't have the cleanest of strikes? Eh, in any mans language that is a miss!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 25/11/2013 18:26:51    1517727

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5520


If he would have kicked that 99 times out of 100, does that not suggest that he did indeed bottle it? There are reasons why certain teams are serial losers. Irish rugby team punches well above its weight in that regard :-)

+1

wile_man_sir (Donegal) - Posts: 150 - 25/11/2013 18:32:02    1517733

JayP

Have to agree with the people saying Ireland shouldn't be applauding a loss.


We absolutely shouldn't be applauding a loss, you're spot on with that one, when you applaud losing then you accept losing. Unfortunately our lads lost the game in their heads, you take last years autumn tests for example, England led NZ 12-0 at half time, did they blow it? nope they went on the win 38-21, I can't understand why we can't do that just once against NZ.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 25/11/2013 18:32:41    1517736

The reason this defeat is being celebrated is that it is the chosen sport of the "elite", so like their gambling debts that have landed us in the gutter, they think we should all get emotional about them losing and share in their loss.

Thats what smilies are for:


:-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 25/11/2013 18:42:34    1517742

They can all get clapped on the back now and be told how close they were to creating history, when in reality they nearly won a friendly against a weakened All blacks team on their holidays.
Id say the D4 media are relieved ,they can now spin it as a sign of good things to come, they can keep the pretence going about how good Irish rugby is and how people are flocking to it in numbers.
Problem is only people flocking to it are middle age armchair supporters.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 25/11/2013 19:01:13    1517760

Ormondbannerman
No it shows their strength in depth. In the main they were not so much weakened by making that many changes. They have huge strength in depth and apart from their key 5/6 players anyone could slot into the team and they would be at the same ridiculously high level.
it wasn't a lack of bottle that cost Ireland the game.
New Zealand are the worlds best at rugby.
They are genetically better adapted to rugby than most races with their mix of islander/maori/white heritage. They place such a high premium on skills and that us why theyre better than us. You cant go on playing numbers alone or Cork/Kerry/Dublin would always wn football title. Its what you do with the resources you have
Are you suggesting that they would have picked the team they had out yesterday if they were playing in a world cup final, or against one of the bigger rugby nations? Of course they wouldn't, teams may have strength in depth but they also always have a clear first team, NZ didn't feel the need to field their first team yesterday, which proved the correct decision just. Kilkenny may show their strength in depth in the league, but for the serious championship games they tend to pick the same 15 most days.

As for your second point, I am unsure if they are genetically better whatever that might mean, after all they never really feature in the Olympics medal table so it seems they are not some superior race in athleticism. Your final point is the exact one I was making when I said that it shows why gaelic football teams throwing their hands up and saying Dublin have too many resources is a nonsense idea, NZ have shown you can dominate world rugby despite having less rugby players than even Ireland.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/11/2013 19:44:42    1517779

Seems we have some "gaels" still living in the past and delighted that their country & 32 counties I might add lost. Sad to see & anyone who says rugby is elitist haven't a clue. It is upper class sport in some quarters granted, but there are many rugby clubs all over Ireland where it is far from elitist and I'm sure there were many GAA men & women at the game yesterday.

Time to get loose the siege mentality and live in the now lads.

county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 25/11/2013 20:27:30    1517797

Shame so many posters normally never post about rugby come in now to throw digs.
25/11/2013 18:15:42 JayP
Have to agree with the people saying Ireland shouldn't be applauding a loss. Facts...... (Rafael Benitez style)
Ireland vs New Zealand was a friendly, Ireland lost
the Aussies went on the p**s before playing Ireland, and won handy
New Zealand had a few brewskis prior to Ireland game, played a lot of their second string and got the job done (in a friendly)
Ireland didn't score in the second half (Look at Mayos from play score in the AI Final....you HAVE to be scoring in both halves, and have to from play)
Ireland ran trough phase after phase, were out of ideas, and trying to run the clock down
Ireland were high enough up the pitch to attempt a drop goal which would have won the game for them, they needed to play boldly not safely, trying to hang on prevented that
.............The best teams take chances, Man UTD score in the 86th min under Fergie, were they content with a draw, NO....they went for a win. The Kilkennys and Kerry's ram home their advantage if they are on top.
Facts over.....
Ireland players and tactics are just not good enough unfortunately
You can applaud the performance and that is what most people have been doing not the actual loss especially when you look at who we were playing and how we have been playing recently.
Some of the Australians went for a few drinks. Its happened in all sports. They weren't exactly legless or doing it for a few days consecutively and had a few drinks. Trying to make something of nothing with that
Where did you see anything about NZ players drinking?
Some of ye sad cases keep knocking the test games saying theyre friendlies but its been explained before and no need for it to be done again exactly what the games are. read the thread back and if you don't you don't.
Ireland didn't run out of idea's but some of the top guys just couldn't keep the sheer intensity levels up which can be difficult at top test level and working so hard all game.

25/11/2013 18:15:46
hurlingdub
If he would have kicked that 99 times out of 100, does that not suggest that he did indeed bottle it? There are reasons why certain teams are serial losers. Irish rugby team punches well above its weight in that regard :-) Go away. Irish rugby side is not a serial loser. Done fairly ok but should be better but not exactly bad side.

25/11/2013 18:32:41
Htaem
We absolutely shouldn't be applauding a loss, you're spot on with that one, when you applaud losing then you accept losing. Unfortunately our lads lost the game in their heads, you take last years autumn tests for example, England led NZ 12-0 at half time, did they blow it? nope they went on the win 38-21, I can't understand why we can't do that just once against NZ Nothing wrong with applauding performance even if you loss and especially after a disappointing performance in previous game.

25/11/2013 18:42:34
hurlingdub
The reason this defeat is being celebrated is that it is the chosen sport of the "elite", so like their gambling debts that have landed us in the gutter, they think we should all get emotional about them losing and share in their loss.
Thats what smilies are for: :-) you're definitely trolling now. GO out of this thread if all you're going to do is troll

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 25/11/2013 20:27:56    1517798

25/11/2013 19:01:13
AthCliath
They can all get clapped on the back now and be told how close they were to creating history, when in reality they nearly won a friendly against a weakened All blacks team on their holidays.
Id say the D4 media are relieved ,they can now spin it as a sign of good things to come, they can keep the pretence going about how good Irish rugby is and how people are flocking to it in numbers.
Problem is only people flocking to it are middle age armchair supporters. it was a big international test game. wasn't a 100% NZ side but not exactly a weak side.
Irish rugby is going well. You are wrong about people flocking to the sport for the reasons you imply. All across board numbers are improving. Really showing stripes now AthClath...

25/11/2013 19:44:42
Soma
Are you suggesting that they would have picked the team they had out yesterday if they were playing in a world cup final, or against one of the bigger rugby nations? Of course they wouldn't, teams may have strength in depth but they also always have a clear first team, NZ didn't feel the need to field their first team yesterday, which proved the correct decision just. Kilkenny may show their strength in depth in the league, but for the serious championship games they tend to pick the same 15 most days.
As for your second point, I am unsure if they are genetically better whatever that might mean, after all they never really feature in the Olympics medal table so it seems they are not some superior race in athleticism. Your final point is the exact one I was making when I said that it shows why gaelic football teams throwing their hands up and saying Dublin have too many resources is a nonsense idea, NZ have shown you can dominate world rugby despite having less rugby players than even Ireland. They would. They didn't field the full first strength side but they didn't do that in all the tests. They still had McCaw, Savea, Reed, Jane, Franks x 2, Whitelock, Dagg all there as well as Messam, Hore and there's prob more but theyre who I can think of who were involved off top of my head.
Islanders sheer physicality and power which is down to genetics amongst other things gives islanders a huge advantage over white people. Their power, pace is ridiculous
WRT Olympic Table per capita they are consistently up near the top of the medal tables as of course the countries with many multiples of NZs 4.5 million population will get more medals as they'll have way more competing.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 25/11/2013 20:28:27    1517799

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 6330

1517799 25/11/2013 19:01:13
AthCliath
They can all get clapped on the back now and be told how close they were to creating history, when in reality they nearly won a friendly against a weakened All blacks team on their holidays.
Id say the D4 media are relieved ,they can now spin it as a sign of good things to come, they can keep the pretence going about how good Irish rugby is and how people are flocking to it in numbers.
Problem is only people flocking to it are middle age armchair supporters. it was a big international test game. wasn't a 100% NZ side but not exactly a weak side.
Irish rugby is going well. You are wrong about people flocking to the sport for the reasons you imply. All across board numbers are improving. Really showing stripes now AthClath...

Haha, when someone spells your name wrong ye throw a hissy fit, yet its ok for you to do it, showing your true stripes there Ormand. Kinda like the way a little spoilt kid that went to private school and then took up rugby would behave :)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 25/11/2013 20:51:42    1517812

the local rugby club in my area is far more friendly to to the GAA than my club is to rugby. Calling rugby elitist is a very outdated cliche.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 25/11/2013 20:58:54    1517816

great game of rugby yesterday. Ireland played fantastic. heartbreaking to lose like that.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 25/11/2013 21:06:47    1517818

Ronan o Gara would have scored it, there was no one better under pressure.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/11/2013 21:21:57    1517829

Ormondbannerman
They would. They didn't field the full first strength side but they didn't do that in all the tests. They still had McCaw, Savea, Reed, Jane, Franks x 2, Whitelock, Dagg all there as well as Messam, Hore and there's prob more but theyre who I can think of who were involved off top of my head.
Islanders sheer physicality and power which is down to genetics amongst other things gives islanders a huge advantage over white people. Their power, pace is ridiculous
WRT Olympic Table per capita they are consistently up near the top of the medal tables as of course the countries with many multiples of NZs 4.5 million population will get more medals as they'll have way more competing.

The NZ papers described the 7 or so players who came into the starting team as "players, who have spent much of 2013 holding tackle bags and making reserve bench appearances, get a chance to impress". You named a group of first team players who started but in reality you could have named as many who were rested. Still, a good effort by Ireland to almost beat them, just highlighting that 1 country may have taken the challenge a little more seriously than the other, though of course every player on the field desperately wanted to win.
As for NZ and the olympics, you are actually right, I had never realised they do quite well there. Though the fact most of their medals have come in sailing, equestrian, rowing and cycling (alot like the UK actually), and almost none in track and field, suggests this is not due to any great power and pace advantage due to perceived advantages of islander genetics. Amusingly I see the Aussies refer to them as the olympic sitting down champions.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/11/2013 09:05:24    1517863

Ormond, Irish rugby is obsessed with the All Blacks. Munster beat them 40 years ago and they write plays about it!

England have beaten them seven times, France 12 times, Wales 3 times. Welsh club teams have beaten them, as have English selections. It is not as unique an achievement as the Irish media would have you beleive.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 26/11/2013 09:14:50    1517864

26/11/2013 09:14:50
hurlingdub
Ormond, Irish rugby is obsessed with the All Blacks. Munster beat them 40 years ago and they write plays about it!
England have beaten them seven times, France 12 times, Wales 3 times. Welsh club teams have beaten them, as have English selections. It is not as unique an achievement as the Irish media would have you beleive. They are the worlds best side.
They have only been beaten by 7 sides in internationals in 100+ years.
It is very unique to beat them.
England/France have much bigger resources than us so should be much more capable of beating them. Welsh when they beat them had prob their 2nd best side ever(best side ever couldn't beat BNZ in the 70s) with Cliff Morgan etc
It is a very unique achievement to beat them. Look at their record and how they play the game

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/11/2013 11:45:51    1517933

South Africans have beaten them more than 40 times, Aussies over 20. Lions a good few times, Barbarians a few times. Anyway, Ireland have never, almost uniquely among leading rugby nations (apart from Scotland), beaten them.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 26/11/2013 12:10:19    1517942

And just to clear things up, I love the Irish rugby team and have followed them through thick and thin, doesn't change how I feel about THAT kick though!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 26/11/2013 13:04:25    1517971

good point hurlingdub,I think we should play the all blacks every Saturday and maybe sometime in 5 or 6 years time when they get bored beating us Ireland might reach this holy grail:)

juniorbsub (Wexford) - Posts: 646 - 26/11/2013 13:37:48    1517982