19/11/2013 21:49:27
Bain
If there is one thing I hate its posters using the term "working class". This is not Downton abbey where the masses scurry out of the way of the landed gentry. Why do Rugby people use this term when describing people from less well to do area like parts of limerick??? I've yet to hear the Sunday game say that any player from Dublin is of a working class background. Complete lack of respect for your fellow countrymen Its used in all area's of life the term "working class" and Limerick has according to Government stats etc more than proportionate number of these area's
I don't know why that's the case in GAA and its not a lack of respect to anyone. Something to do with Limerick having 4 of the 5 most deprived area's in the country may be an issue
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/LocalGovernmentCommittees/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,23938,en.pdf

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/11/2013 21:58:51    1515539

flack
County: Dublin
Posts: 108

1515490
crescent, munchins mungret, some limerick rugger heads go to rockwell (eg denis fogarty) all pretty posh schools. You say "working class origins", do you mean theyre posh now? I always hear limerick rugger-b's saying its so "working class", but theyre all well-off themselves. In fact ive never met a fleck from limerick who played rugby, and theyre not thin on the ground!

Flack you are miles off the mark here. No Limerick people go to Rockwell. There are 2 main rugby schools in the city, munchins and crescent. Castletroy are going that way and Ard Scoil are now leaning towards being a hurling school. No Limerick rugby lads go to school anywhere else really and none of them are private schools. In fact there aren't any private secondary schools in Limerick City bar Villiers and that isn't a sporting school in any way

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 20/11/2013 08:19:22    1515541

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 6281

1515371 19/11/2013 15:52:37
19/11/2013 16:16:15 GaryMc82
Which of the stadiums proposed to be used would have little to no domestic use afterwards?

Casement Park is one major white elephant ( despite what the Antrim faithful might tell you ), and will have limited domestic use afterwards ( Unless forced upon all Ulster counties ).
I don't mind Casement getting a revamp, but the money being spent on it is ridiculous.

Lets be honest here, Ireland is very likely to win the RWC for 2023. Britain has already backed the Irish bid, and got to work early on funding 3 Belfast stadiums.
With England, Scotland, Wales all likely to back it, France will likely drop their own bid down the road a bit and support a refreshing Irish bid too. This will then leave the majority of Northern Hemisphere teams supporting Ireland over Italy, with the Italians then likely to withdraw too.
Ireland v South Africa for the World cup. I would say Ireland will get the nod, as they have never hosted the event before.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 20/11/2013 09:08:03    1515553

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 6281

1515539 19/11/2013 21:49:27
Bain
If there is one thing I hate its posters using the term "working class". This is not Downton abbey where the masses scurry out of the way of the landed gentry. Why do Rugby people use this term when describing people from less well to do area like parts of limerick??? I've yet to hear the Sunday game say that any player from Dublin is of a working class background. Complete lack of respect for your fellow countrymen Its used in all area's of life the term "working class" and Limerick has according to Government stats etc more than proportionate number of these area's
I don't know why that's the case in GAA and its not a lack of respect to anyone. Something to do with Limerick having 4 of the 5 most deprived area's in the country may be an issue.


Working Class / Middle Class might as well be the same thing for all I know. I've never properly understood the class system, and how it is drafted up. I don't think the class system is suited to Ireland, as we have no aristocracy left to top it off and Irish people tend to not like people who are stuck up or up their own holes.

I would have took working class to be equal to middle class, as work is very scarce these days. I think every City or large town has a few rough area's, I know Derry City has it's fair share and could probably rival Limerick in these stakes.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 20/11/2013 09:27:07    1515558

Why should Limerick have just 1 venue? The county that supplied 6 members, out of 42, of the second last Lions panel should be entitled to 2 venues if possible. After all this city is 'the home of Irish rugby'.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4338 - 20/11/2013 09:58:57    1515573

Ive done quite a bit of looking into this subject and believe Ireland on its own would be capable of such a bit and would be a major boost to the Irish economy. I would use the following stadia which are likely to be in place in 2023:

Croke Park - 82,300
Aviva Stadium - 51,700
Gaelic Grounds- 50,000
Cork Stadium - 50,000 (tbc)
McHale Park - 45,000
Antrim Stadium- 42,000 (tbc)
Pearse Stadium- 35,000
Dublin Stadium- 35,000 (tbc)
Thomond Park- 32,500
Ravenhill - 22,000

Using the above stadium would represent an average capacity of 44,550. This is an extremely high average capacity with Ravenhill brining it down but it could be used for matches involving lower class nations. The average capacity for previous world cups are as follows:

Australia 2003 - 38,181
France, Wales, Scotland 2007- 49,250
New Zealand 2011 - 28,300
England/Wales 2015 - 52,500
Japan 2019 - 44,270

This shows that Ireland would be the highest average capacity sole bidder in recent times and possibly ever. There average capacity would be almost 20,000 higher per stadium than the 2011 world cup. Also although only 3 of the prospective stadiums in Irelands bid would be so called 'rugby stadiums' this is more than the English world cup in 2015 of which all except Twickenham and Saracens ground would be soccer stadiums.

Also all of the stadiums I mentioned above are very strategically placed. Ireland currently has the infrastructure to deal with the world cup. Dublin would act as the main hub providing three stadiums. Two stadiums would be in Limerick, two stadiums in Belfast, one in Cork, one in Galway and one in Mayo. All of these locations are served by train from Dublin. Regarding flying obviously Dublin, Cork and Belfast airports would serve the stadiums in their cities. Knock airport is only 20miles from Castlebar so that could serve McHale Park. Shannon Airport is 15miles from Limerick city which would serve the Gaelic Grounds and Thomond Park. Pearse Stadium would be served by Galway airport. Internal flights from airport to airport could be arranged ensuring we have the necessary capabilities to deal with the capacity. Also are road system has undergone massive improvements in the past 15 years. This would make Ireland and excellent location with all stadia accesible by road, air or rail.

I dont think its unfeasible that Ireland would attract 45,000 people from England, 35,000 from Wales, 20,000 from both France and Scotland and a further 75,000 from other participating nations. These are largely conservative estimates but if Ireland was to attract 200,000 people not alone would that showcase Ireland but it would bring in significant income for the month the tournament takes place. As part of our get Ireland back on its feet campaign in 2013 this bid should be part of them celebrations.

I cannot see why Ireland wouldn't make a bid for the world cup as it is an ideal location as shown above. The only thing holding us back is ourselves with the usual attitude of Ireland wouldn't be able to hold such an event. It would be huge for the Irish economy with Ireland being showcased on an international stage and obviously the massive revenue hotels, airline companies, retailers and almost everyone in the country will benefit from as a result of this. If Croke Park also increased its capacity by 700 which I believe it will do in the next 10 years it would be the biggest venue for a Rugby World Cup final which would be something to brag about. Once again it is possible and why not show the next generation that Ireland is a proud nation and put all of this doom and gloom behind us.

Ire2023 (Dublin) - Posts: 13 - 20/11/2013 10:28:59    1515605

20/11/2013 08:19:22
mike03
Flack you are miles off the mark here. No Limerick people go to Rockwell. There are 2 main rugby schools in the city, munchins and crescent. Castletroy are going that way and Ard Scoil are now leaning towards being a hurling school. No Limerick rugby lads go to school anywhere else really and none of them are private schools. In fact there aren't any private secondary schools in Limerick City bar Villiers and that isn't a sporting school in any way Villiers would be a sporting school. Plays quite a bit of hockey and small amount of rugby. Compete at national level in hockey quite regularly
20/11/2013 09:27:07
GaryMc82
Working Class / Middle Class might as well be the same thing for all I know. I've never properly understood the class system, and how it is drafted up. I don't think the class system is suited to Ireland, as we have no aristocracy left to top it off and Irish people tend to not like people who are stuck up or up their own holes.
I would have took working class to be equal to middle class, as work is very scarce these days. I think every City or large town has a few rough area's, I know Derry City has it's fair share and could probably rival Limerick in these stakes. If you dont understand it Im not going to tell you as its fairly easy to understand and this forum is not the place for explanations of that sport

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2013 13:03:25    1515669

20/11/2013 09:58:57
Oldtourman
Why should Limerick have just 1 venue? The county that supplied 6 members, out of 42, of the second last Lions panel should be entitled to 2 venues if possible. After all this city is 'the home of Irish rugby'Because the city isnt big enough to need 2 stadiums and producing a significant number of players to a Lions squad means nothing in this context

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2013 13:04:46    1515671

20/11/2013 10:28:59
Ire2023
Ive done quite a bit of looking into this subject and believe Ireland on its own would be capable of such a bit and would be a major boost to the Irish economy. I would use the following stadia which are likely to be in place in 2023:
Croke Park - 82,300 Aviva Stadium - 51,700 Gaelic Grounds- 50,000 Cork Stadium - 50,000 (tbc)
McHale Park - 45,000 Antrim Stadium- 42,000 (tbc) Pearse Stadium- 35,000 Dublin Stadium- 35,000 (tbc)
Thomond Park- 32,500 Ravenhill - 22,000
Using the above stadium would represent an average capacity of 44,550. This is an extremely high average capacity with Ravenhill brining it down but it could be used for matches involving lower class nations. The average capacity for previous world cups are as follows:
Australia 2003 - 38,181 France 2007- 49,250 New Zealand 2011 - 28,300 England 2015 - 52,500 Japan 2019 - 44,270
This shows that Ireland would be the highest average capacity sole bidder in recent times and possibly ever. There average capacity would be almost 20,000 higher per stadium than the 2011 world cup. Also although only 3 of the prospective stadiums in Irelands bid would be so called 'rugby stadiums' this is more than the English world cup in 2015 of which all except Twickenham and Saracens ground would be soccer stadiums.
Also all of the stadiums I mentioned above are very strategically placed. Ireland currently has the infrastructure to deal with the world cup. Dublin would act as the main hub providing three stadiums. Two stadiums would be in Limerick, two stadiums in Belfast, one in Cork, one in Galway and one in Mayo. All of these locations are served by train from Dublin. Regarding flying obviously Dublin, Cork and Belfast airports would serve the stadiums in their cities. Knock airport is only 20miles from Castlebar so that could serve McHale Park. Shannon Airport is 15miles from Limerick city which would serve the Gaelic Grounds and Thomond Park. Pearse Stadium would be served by Galway airport. Internal flights from airport to airport could be arranged ensuring we have the necessary capabilities to deal with the capacity. Also are road system has undergone massive improvements in the past 15 years. This would make Ireland and excellent location with all stadia accesible by road, air or rail.

I dont think its unfeasible that Ireland would attract 45,000 people from England, 35,000 from Wales, 20,000 from both France and Scotland and a further 75,000 from other participating nations. These are largely conservative estimates but if Ireland was to attract 200,000 people not alone would that showcase Ireland but it would bring in significant income for the month the tournament takes place. As part of our get Ireland back on its feet campaign in 2013 this bid should be part of them celebrations.

I cannot see why Ireland wouldn't make a bid for the world cup as it is an ideal location as shown above. The only thing holding us back is ourselves with the usual attitude of Ireland wouldn't be able to hold such an event. It would be huge for the Irish economy with Ireland being showcased on an international stage and obviously the massive revenue hotels, airline companies, retailers and almost everyone in the country will benefit from as a result of this. If Croke Park also increased its capacity by 700 which I believe it will do in the next 10 years it would be the biggest venue for a Rugby World Cup final which would be something to brag about. Once again it is possible and why not show the next generation that Ireland is a proud nation and put all of this doom and gloom behind us.
Good post but just to point out some things
What stadium of 35000 capacity in Dublin are you referring to?
Saracens ground is not being used in 2015 world cup. The rugby grounds being used are Gloucester's, Exeters and Twickenham.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2013 13:16:38    1515677

Oh hockey, of course Ormond. How forgetful of me. Huge in this country sure. Ah that's it settled so. They are a sporting school

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 20/11/2013 13:24:40    1515684

Would it be a worry for the GAA if such a World Cup got the go ahead and various GAA stadiums used that more young kids might head towards Rugby than GAA? The legacy of holding such an event could have knock on effects for the GAA.

I am just thinking out load here before anyone jumps down my throat. I guess preference will also come into it. Gaelic Games in my view are a much more enjoyable sporting event to watch than Rugby with all its stop and starts.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 20/11/2013 13:38:18    1515695

20/11/2013 13:24:40
mike03
Oh hockey, of course Ormond. How forgetful of me. Huge in this country sure. Ah that's it settled so. They are a sporting school Well hockey is very popular across many schools and it is big enough in Ireland. They are a sporting school
20/11/2013 13:38:18
yew_tree
Would it be a worry for the GAA if such a World Cup got the go ahead and various GAA stadiums used that more young kids might head towards Rugby than GAA? The legacy of holding such an event could have knock on effects for the GAA.
I am just thinking out load here before anyone jumps down my throat. I guess preference will also come into it. Gaelic Games in my view are a much more enjoyable sporting event to watch than Rugby with all its stop and starts.
Dont think so and its not like in the main each season over lap with at underage level hurling/football finished by mid october in the main while rugby is really only kicking into gear then while rugby is finished in the main in late march or april with very few sides continuing on to May while hurling/football start in april/may

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2013 13:44:14    1515701

Be good for Ireland to host this.Matches should be kept away from the
North though if Unionists start asking for God save the queen to be
sung like they did a few years ago when Ireland played at Ravenhill.

As long as the IRFU stick to the guns on the protocol of Amhrain na
Bhfiann and Irelands Call in the Republic and Ireland's Call in the
North it will be fine.

Ireland has some great stadia be good to see them showcased to a
World stage.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 20/11/2013 13:46:12    1515702

They arent. Simple as that. Have never played against them in any proper sport, have never seen them play in any proper sport or heard them play against anyone else. Maybe they play a bit of hockey against other private schools but they arent and never will be on the radar of CBS, Ard Scoil, Crescent, Clements, Catletroy, Munchins etc etc

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 20/11/2013 13:48:54    1515706

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 6290

1515371
19/11/2013 15:52:37
HaHa
Some irish snob you are. Just comment in english man. there's threads created for those who want to type as gaeilge.
No deal for reduction in teams will ever be considered and jeez your snobbish and rugby is a much bigger sport than a snob like you would ever realise. 10 countries.... haha

"I see your true colours shining through..."

Ah ormond, the knives of bigotry are well and truly brandished. An unprecedented ad hominem assault for a semi-serious comment. You actually believed I was sincere in the team reduction thing?

This is quite an epiphany, because up until now I had you down as one of the more nuanced, reasonable and eloquent posters. Such a fool! How thin the veil proved to be. How well you defended minor commentary as Gaeilge a few months ago! It seems in stark contrast to your expressed feelings on the language on this thread.

Never did I state any oppostion to rugby. I've always been quite fond of it. I watched as much as I could the last 2 weekends. I roared in vain for Éire (is that too much?) v An Astráil last weekend.

Finally, I didn't say 10 countries, I said less than 10!

That was an eye-opener of a response, and no mistake.

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 20/11/2013 14:43:43    1515739

An tseabhac

When somebody dares to spell ormond's name incorrectly, he responds with name calling (i.e.calling keeper7 a 'clown' last week). He called you a snob when he himself has been known to correct other people's spelling errors (the height of forum snobbery). He gave us words of wisdom on poetry appreciation a few weeks ago (taking the moral high ground on his superior knowledge) though Sedico found the actual source elsewhere. Finally you correctly stated that he adamantly defended the use of the Irish language a few weeks back but apparently you now are a snob for peppering a sentence with cúpla focail.

Sigh.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 20/11/2013 14:56:54    1515744

Mike, the fella I named earlier was on Rockwells 'famous alumni' list on their webpage. I admit I've never heard of him, (:-D) but they say he's a current rugby star from limerick. Sorry, those schools aren't private, as you say. But theyrs pretty posh anyway.
Anyway, just as a matter of interest Ormonde, limerick doesn't have 4 out of 5 of the most deprived areas, it has one - the island field, the rest are in Dublin, ballinasloe and Donegal. You seem pretty obsessed with poverty in limerick!

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 20/11/2013 16:08:27    1515778

20/11/2013 13:46:12
REDANDBLACK30
Be good for Ireland to host this.Matches should be kept away from the North though if Unionists start asking for God save the queen to be
sung like they did a few years ago when Ireland played at Ravenhill.
As long as the IRFU stick to the guns on the protocol of Amhrain na Bhfiann and Irelands Call in the Republic and Ireland's Call in the
North it will be fine.
Ireland has some great stadia be good to see them showcased to a World stage. Matches should not be kept away from North and tbh who would care if GSTQ was sung. Anthems are a sideshow before the real event.
Ireland has some great stadiums but others would need some work before a WC would be hosted
20/11/2013 13:48:54
mike03
They arent. Simple as that. Have never played against them in any proper sport, have never seen them play in any proper sport or heard them play against anyone else. Maybe they play a bit of hockey against other private schools but they arent and never will be on the radar of CBS, Ard Scoil, Crescent, Clements, Catletroy, Munchins etc etc Whats a "proper sport"?
They play rugby against all those schools at McCarthy Cup, Bowen shield level and if they qualify at junior and senior level which they have done on small occasions but are totally hampered by small numbers in the school. They play hockey against the Comp often as well as other schools both private and non private across the country.
As theyre hampered by lack of numbers its only every so often that they can compete and do well at different sports against the other schools. Like its been 4/5 years since they've done well in rugby as they haven't had many top class players(though there has been players in the school very good in that time the school side overall has been very poor)

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2013 16:51:05    1515799

20/11/2013 14:43:43 an tseabhac
Ah ormond, the knives of bigotry are well and truly brandished. An unprecedented ad hominem assault for a semi-serious comment. You actually believed I was sincere in the team reduction thing?
This is quite an epiphany, because up until now I had you down as one of the more nuanced, reasonable and eloquent posters. Such a fool! How thin the veil proved to be. How well you defended minor commentary as Gaeilge a few months ago! It seems in stark contrast to your expressed feelings on the language on this thread.
Never did I state any oppostion to rugby. I've always been quite fond of it. I watched as much as I could the last 2 weekends. I roared in vain for Éire (is that too much?) v An Astráil last weekend.
Finally, I didn't say 10 countries, I said less than 10! That was an eye-opener of a response, and no mistake.
Just don't see point of speckling bits and pieces of your posts 'as Gaeilge" either post fully in Irish or fully in English.
I'll defend irish and its usage where I see benefits but whats point of just speckling your post with the odd word of irish? Just think that's pointless
Im fairly good at speaking and writing in French do you see me posting in French much? No? Ainsi vous faire?

20/11/2013 14:56:54
bennybunny
An tseabhac, When somebody dares to spell ormond's name incorrectly, he responds with name calling (i.e.calling keeper7 a 'clown' last week). He called you a snob when he himself has been known to correct other people's spelling errors (the height of forum snobbery). He gave us words of wisdom on poetry appreciation a few weeks ago (taking the moral high ground on his superior knowledge) though Sedico found the actual source elsewhere. Finally you correctly stated that he adamantly defended the use of the Irish language a few weeks back but apparently you now are a snob for peppering a sentence with cúpla focail.
Sigh. Just don't see point in peppering a post with the odd word or two of irish. either post entirely in irish or not at all.
The poetry thing you mention came from notes of mine.
Will defend irish but just don't see point of adding the odd word or two as surely if you want to promote it you do it the whole hog and put your entire post as gaeilge.
whats wrong with wanting your username spelt correctly? Is their really anything wrong with looking for your name to be called the right way?

20/11/2013 16:08:27
flack
Mike, the fella I named earlier was on Rockwells 'famous alumni' list on their webpage. I admit I've never heard of him, (:-D) but they say he's a current rugby star from limerick. Sorry, those schools aren't private, as you say. But theyrs pretty posh anyway.
Anyway, just as a matter of interest Ormond, limerick doesn't have 4 out of 5 of the most deprived areas, it has one - the island field, the rest are in Dublin, ballinasloe and Donegal. You seem pretty obsessed with poverty in limerick! Who is the person on the rockwell website you are referring to?
4 of the most deprived electoral divisions(ED'S) in the country are in Limerick. source a report on environ.ie and amongst those deprived ED'S are St Marys Park, Ballinacurra-Weston and Southill

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/11/2013 17:18:02    1515812

This may be a bit political and dry, but I think its germane to this conversation. If all other things were equal, this Rugby WC would be a great thing to host, absolutely. But does this not seem like another huge distraction? A country still in recession, with crippling national debt (no country has ever paid back our level of debt without printing its own money), and with things certainly not going as well as we're being led to believe.

It seems that at various junctures over the last 10 years, something like this has been proposed by whatever government was in power at the time (co-hosting the soccer Euro's, hosting the Rugby WC has been mentioned a few times, even bringing the Olympics to Dublin!). They never come to fruition, but they keep us distracted and off the streets (i.e. if we strike, it'll hurt our ability to stage the Rugby WC, Euro's etc). Anyone I've spoken to outside of Ireland in the last 2/3 years, who have any type of knowledge of whats been going on, have been bowled over at how accepting people have been of whats been done to us, how little demonstrating ,public disturbances, strikes have taken place (in contrast to Greece, Spain, Italy etc). This WC bid announcement coincides with our exiting the bailout program, so the Government will no longer be able to blame the troika for austerity, cutbacks etc. Seems like a very convenient time to announce a bid for a WC. I don't think it'll ever happen, but once again it'll keep us distracted. Maybe that's cynical, but I don't think we can afford ro take our eyes off the ball again.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 20/11/2013 17:28:20    1515820