Where the venues are located will come down to politics and not logic as is the normal case in Ireland

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 18/12/2014 20:45:20    1679406

You make a lot of good points ROS but I don't see how Italy could hold a rugby world cup. They have 2 professional rugby teams who get an average attendance of probably 2-3000 each. Their national team played Samoa in a massive Autumn international last month and 11,000 went to watch it. It is hard to see many Italians paying €50-100 for a ticket to watch Namibia v Georgia should the world cup come to Napoli, or €250 for a final in Rome. Similarly I wonder how many people in Sligo, Derry, Castlebar, Killarney etc would pay these sums to watch Tonga v Japan. I think I read that Wales are struggling to sell-out the games involving their own side for next years world cup in Cardiff, let alone the much smaller fixtures, so I am not sure they would have much of an appetite to have it back so soon. Also, I would suggest the tourism benefits of a rugby world cup in this part of the world is overstated. South Africa, NZ and Australia would have some support follow them, but Georgia, Romania, Namibia, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Uruguay etc etc would not. Most fans would be from Britain & France Id imagine, and would probably fly in and out for games. In this sense it cant be compared to the tourism benefits from a soccer world cup, Olympics etc.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 18/12/2014 21:26:28    1679422

Good points Soma but rugby are very keen to expand the game and Italy are getting bigger crowds to there six nations games, there are poor crowds in Wales and Scotlands for some pro 12 games as well. There are 60m people in Italy located in the middle of Europe, it is a perfect opportunity to grow the game and as we can see from the world cup going to Japan the irb are keen to expand the game. With the success of the Irish rugby team over the last 15 years and the massive media attention i don't think having a world cup in Ireland will expand the game by much. How many people will want to see the poor games in the rds for example if there are far better games in croker and aviva. I think you will get more people in the likes of Sligo going to a game who would not be bothered going up to Dublin for a game for example. It would give the country more interest in the tournament to spread around the country and get the country behind the tourament. 122,000 tourists went to rwc 2011 more could come to Ireland, for tv viewers Killarney and Sligo are the most scenic grounds in Ireland and this could attract more tourists after the tournament is finished. Off course it is not as big as the soccer or the Olympics but it will be the biggest tournament Ireland are capable of holding.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 18/12/2014 21:55:23    1679430

18/12/2014 21:26:28 Soma
You make a lot of good points ROS but I don't see how Italy could hold a rugby world cup. They have 2 professional rugby teams who get an average attendance of probably 2-3000 each. Their national team played Samoa in a massive Autumn international last month and 11,000 went to watch it. It is hard to see many Italians paying €50-100 for a ticket to watch Namibia v Georgia should the world cup come to Napoli, or €250 for a final in Rome. Similarly I wonder how many people in Sligo, Derry, Castlebar, Killarney etc would pay these sums to watch Tonga v Japan. I think I read that Wales are struggling to sell-out the games involving their own side for next years world cup in Cardiff, let alone the much smaller fixtures, so I am not sure they would have much of an appetite to have it back so soon. Also, I would suggest the tourism benefits of a rugby world cup in this part of the world is overstated. South Africa, NZ and Australia would have some support follow them, but Georgia, Romania, Namibia, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Uruguay etc etc would not. Most fans would be from Britain & France Id imagine, and would probably fly in and out for games. In this sense it cant be compared to the tourism benefits from a soccer world cup, Olympics etc.Of course Italy could host a world cup. They have more than 2 professional teams. There is 2 teams playing in the pro12 but there is teams in the italian league who are professional.
The IRB seem to think Italy could host the world cup and will look at them in time
There is no reason why people mightnt go to those games and the prices that were there for this world cup mightnt be the same in a world cup held here
We can never host a soccer world cup or Olympics and the tourism benefits will be huge in comparison to anything else we could host and

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/12/2014 22:01:43    1679435

I accept what you are saying ROS but Japan and Italy are very different in terms of rugby. In Japan there are 14 clubs in their top division averaging a crowd of 5000 per game, big business is investing heavily in the game, they are paying massive money to get top coaches and players in, and there are close to 4000 clubs in the country. In Italy the game is confined mainly to a wealthy pocket of the country, they have 2 professional clubs who average about 2500 per game, some of their best players are leaving, and Id be surprised if they have more than 400 clubs in the country. You say that Scotland and Wales Pro12 clubs also get very poor attendances, but in reality neither of these countrys could host the world cup either with much success, as can be seen from the difficulty of selling tickets for even the Welsh games in Cardiff next September. While the IRB are keen to promote the game, would they want their flagship tournament played in front of empty stands in a country where the vast majority couldn't care less about the sport? Ironically in a couple of Italys main rugby towns the fastest growing sport is gaelic football in clubs set up by Italians and with mainly Italian players!
In terms of tourism numbers I would suggest that due to the wealth and interest in NH countries, SH countries do best from tourism when hosting. We all know people who will go to NZ or SA for 3 weeks to watch the world cup from Ireland, and the same is true for England and France, and provide a real tourism boost. Id be sceptical that the same numbers would come north from the SH though, instead it would probably be antipodeans in London mainly flying in and out, as it would be for the rest of the 6 nations teams. Of course there would be some tourism benefits, but I have a feeling it is being greatly overestimated at the moment.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 19/12/2014 11:34:00    1679472

9/12/2014 11:34:00 Soma
I accept what you are saying ROS but Japan and Italy are very different in terms of rugby. In Japan there are 14 clubs in their top division averaging a crowd of 5000 per game, big business is investing heavily in the game, they are paying massive money to get top coaches and players in, and there are close to 4000 clubs in the country. In Italy the game is confined mainly to a wealthy pocket of the country, they have 2 professional clubs who average about 2500 per game, some of their best players are leaving, and Id be surprised if they have more than 400 clubs in the country. You say that Scotland and Wales Pro12 clubs also get very poor attendances, but in reality neither of these countrys could host the world cup either with much success, as can be seen from the difficulty of selling tickets for even the Welsh games in Cardiff next September. While the IRB are keen to promote the game, would they want their flagship tournament played in front of empty stands in a country where the vast majority couldn't care less about the sport? Ironically in a couple of Italys main rugby towns the fastest growing sport is gaelic football in clubs set up by Italians and with mainly Italian players!There has always been big business involvement in Japan and the Sport is doing well
Italy has more than 2 professional clubs. They have 10 professional clubs in their top flight league which is a 10 team league and the best players play in the pro12 and france so they could have more
Lots of guesswork and bullshit in this post
19/12/2014 11:34:00 Soma
In terms of tourism numbers I would suggest that due to the wealth and interest in NH countries, SH countries do best from tourism when hosting. We all know people who will go to NZ or SA for 3 weeks to watch the world cup from Ireland, and the same is true for England and France, and provide a real tourism boost. Id be sceptical that the same numbers would come north from the SH though, instead it would probably be antipodeans in London mainly flying in and out, as it would be for the rest of the 6 nations teams. Of course there would be some tourism benefits, but I have a feeling it is being greatly overestimated at the moment. You are making assumptions. There is loads of SH people already here on gap years/playing here and 000s would come up like they did for previous world cups..
I dont see it as being overestimated at all.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/12/2014 15:04:58    1679516

Ormo I can appreciate why you might think the teams in Italys National Championship of Excellence are professional as they run some Pro12 teams close in European competition, but they are part-timers. Rovigo, Calvisano etc who compete in Europe are not professional outfits, they are all part-time/semi-professional. Considering they get a couple of hundred at their league games it is understandable that they are not professional, even the 2 teams in the PRO12 really struggle to balance the books with Aironi going to the wall a few years back.
I accept your criticism that my predicitions on possible tourism numbers for a competition that may be held in Ireland in 9 years time is based on guesswork and assumptions - I have completely misplaced my crystal ball and was left with no other option on this occasion. I do hope you accept my apology.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 19/12/2014 15:57:43    1679523

I see your points Soma but if the Irb take that attitude then the same 5 or 6 countries will only ever hold it. Surely the points you raised are exactly the reasons the Irb would want it in Italy to expand the game beyond the current support. Italy is also easy to get to from the 5 nations countries. We should get more tourists from Usa/Canada and Europe then Nz got.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 19/12/2014 18:44:23    1679544

19/12/2014 15:57:43Soma
Ormo I can appreciate why you might think the teams in Italys National Championship of Excellence are professional as they run some Pro12 teams close in European competition, but they are part-timers. Rovigo, Calvisano etc who compete in Europe are not professional outfits, they are all part-time/semi-professional. Considering they get a couple of hundred at their league games it is understandable that they are not professional, even the 2 teams in the PRO12 really struggle to balance the books with Aironi going to the wall a few years back.
I accept your criticism that my predicitions on possible tourism numbers for a competition that may be held in Ireland in 9 years time is based on guesswork and assumptions - I have completely misplaced my crystal ball and was left with no other option on this occasion. I do hope you accept my apology.Arrogance from you is unbelievable. The name is Ormond by the way nothing other than that
The sides in Italy are not part time. That they get several hundred(and many get significant more) doesnt mean they are not professional
Treviso are from from struggling to balance their books. They do very well financially. Ive been to their ground on a few occasions and quit the arrogance. You love to dismiss me for my posts but you whinge when i do the same?
Your guesswork is well off. If figures made for an actual bid are what theyre saying theyre generally going to be about right and i would trust them more than you
19/12/2014 18:44:23 ROS1
I see your points Soma but if the Irb take that attitude then the same 5 or 6 countries will only ever hold it. Surely the points you raised are exactly the reasons the Irb would want it in Italy to expand the game beyond the current support. Italy is also easy to get to from the 5 nations countries. We should get more tourists from Usa/Canada and Europe then Nz got.Of course thats true that what Soma says then only a small number would get to host the competition..

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/12/2014 19:14:29    1679546

sounds like somebody is over estimating the popularity of their sport yet again

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 19/12/2014 20:43:20    1679555

Ormo if you were correct about Italys domestic league being professional you do realise that would mean Italy would have more professional rugby teams than Ireland Wales and Scotland combined?! And yet their top 2 sides, who are actually professional and according to you in rude financial health, get beat by 47 points by teams like Edinburgh! Here is a snippet of a recent match report on Rovigo, one of Italys top clubs in their domestic league
'Cardiff Blues joined London Irish in making it 10 points from a possible 10 in Pool One as they secured a 33-18 win at Rovigo. The Italian semi-professional outfit, who Blues director of rugby Mark Hammett described as "a team that doesn't have a lot of strategy but has a lot of passion"

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/12/2014 11:44:45    1679668