Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 4098

1023250 Hill,

Paddy is the Irish News Chief Sports reporter so yes he would have been at the game. Paddy is a very fair commentator and he is usually sharp enough in his analysis. Could someone tell me where he is wrong? Dublin and Kerry can be as physical, defensive, cynical and dirty as any team so let's not just pin this on Donegal or Ulster.


_______________

Can be being the operative word Ulsterman. Its just not as defensive as Donegal or Ulster in general. Donegal's game might have been effective for them but if every team adopted that style would who pay to watch the GAA. Tyrone, Armagh style of play offered at least some attacking football, so was never quite as bad as Donegal's style. With a bit of look Donegal might work on attacking football and find a happy medium.

Dubstar (Dublin) - Posts: 48 - 30/08/2011 19:17:52    1023288

Dubstar,

I think you will find that most GAA fans are not flamboyant, champagne supping cavaliers who like to write poetry and dream of the 'beautiful game'. They are pragmatic and just want success for their county irrespective of how it's achieved. If ANY county gets to an All Ireland semi final or final, even quarter final, you will find that most Gaels in that county want to be part of it and will be in Croker to follow and support THEIR team. This nonsense about Donegal is just RTE pundit and Dublin national media driven drivel that, whether you want to believe it or not, has underlying resentment towards Ulster sides. When Armagh and Tyrone won their All Ireland's we got the exact same rhubarb from exactly the same people. It is bitter, emotional, provincial and biased rubbish as Paddy Heaney said.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 30/08/2011 19:29:48    1023300

Hill16man,

I was at the game and yes it was memorable for being a negative game, but did dublin not employ a sweeper also, were dublin also negative, did barry cahill not take Lacey out of the game,

dublin won fair play to them, and it would be great for them to win an all-ireland, 2 sams in over 33 years is a poor return for the amount of GAA clubs in the county,

but as another poster pointed out, the media wanted this final, weather donegal v mayo was an option or not, the media wanted this one

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 30/08/2011 19:31:11    1023302

Where have you got this figure of 99% from hill16no1man?

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 30/08/2011 19:32:14    1023304

Furthermore Dubstar if the Dubs are celebrating their first SAM in 16 years in a few weeks time will you be worried if your side were too defensive and stifled Kerry's flair players? I think not friend!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 30/08/2011 19:39:16    1023321

Ulsterman - anyone comparing Armagh or Tyrone in their heyday to Donegal is talking through their hat. Both were tough hard and yes sometimes cynical teams but they could play football.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 30/08/2011 19:43:08    1023326

Not every team is going to copy Donegal's style. Look at soccer. Greece won Euro 2004 with an extremely negative style of football. Inter Milan beat the great Barca team in 2010 to win the Champions League (although I actually really enjoyed watching them - their defensive positioning and awareness was amazing). But that doesn't mean everyone in soccer changed to negative tactics. Look at Man Utd and Barcelona last year - both reached the final, and both played the most attractive football, especially Barca. So calm the heads, people.

People who say that they won't watch Donegal, and they wouldn't have watched if they had made it to the final - come on now! You knew exactly what style of football Donegal had played in their previous five championship matches this year, and yet Sunday's semi-final was the most watched match of the year? Your maths isn't adding up.

Obviously I'm biased, but I found the match intriguing to watch on Sunday. It's refreshing to see players who actually know how to tackle within the rules - I think Neil McGee has been fantastic at it all year.

Also, for those suggesting rule changes regarding number of players in a half of a pitch, or curtailing handpassing - here's a mad suggestion for you. Have your players practice shooting from distance. It's not that hard, and it would force Donegal to play higher up the pitch, thus creating more space, but surprisingly few players can do it. If your players can't shoot from distance, then why should the other team have a responsibility to let you saunter past the defence to have a closer range shot? Defence in gaelic football is evolving, and the attacking philosophy will eventually evolve to counteract it. It's how team sports have always worked.

Texas (Donegal) - Posts: 163 - 30/08/2011 19:47:39    1023332

I agree hurling and I also believe that most Dubs KNOW they are going to have to stiffle Colm Cooper and Kieran Donaghy if you are to prevail; how that happens I don't think Dubs fans care. All that matters to your fans is that you win END OF!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 30/08/2011 19:48:48    1023335

Ulsterman I'm not having a go at Ulster football. I couldn't care less what you think about RTE or the national media either. All I am saying is that Donegal were overly negative and defensive. Dublin too play a defensive style but can score and showed that against Tyrone and will show it again against Kerry as I believe it will be a more flowing game. Would I be happy if Dublin won Sam playing defensive football ..... yes thrilled. Do I think Dublin need to play the type of defensive football Donegal did, to win at all costs, no and to be honest wouldn't be happy to pay €80 for a ticket to watch such a game, €40 was bad enough.

Dubstar (Dublin) - Posts: 48 - 30/08/2011 19:58:08    1023349

Dubstar,

Donegal were TOO defensive and overly negative against Dublin and if they had been allowed to express themselves more on Sunday after Connolly was sent off I think they would have won; ultimately Donegal's ultra defensive tactics cost them in the end. I sincerely would like to see Dublin beat Kerry, not because I dislike Kerry, but the game needs different winners now and again like Tyrone, Armagh and Cork. Kerry are brilliant but Kerry will ALWAYS be there irrespective.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 30/08/2011 20:17:40    1023380

I can't believe some people on who are advocating rule changes such as not allowing forwards back beyond the half-way line. just think about what you are saying for more than a minute . just think about it. I mean have you ever played or officiated the game. it's a complete non-starter. also some people are trumpeting rule changes to the handpass like only one handpass allowed in a move or you can't pass forward or you can't pass backwards. for goodness sake the refs can't implement the simple rules that are there at the moment how on earth do you think they could implement these. the only rule changes should be either completely Ban the hand or fisted pass and reduce the number of players on the pitch to 13 or 14.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 30/08/2011 20:29:34    1023398

cuchulainn35
County: Armagh
Posts: 257


how could dublin employ a sweeper the fact that dublin only played 3 players out of the 6 defenders picked in defense shows that i would have thaught that was obvious.when were dublin negative in the first half they shot on site in the second they kept attacking looking for gaps so i cannot see how they were negative.
barry cahill did the same to lacey as what donegal player did to ger brennan but you choose to ignore it.
as for your dig at 2 sams in 33years for amount of gaa clubs thats a stupid argument so does that mean cork should have the most all irelands as they have the most gaa clubs and they have only 7 all irelands armagh your own county has only 1 so we aint doing bad with 22 all irelands.
the media are the first to slate dublin when they lose but i never hear people complaining then.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 30/08/2011 20:35:09    1023405

Loyal2TheRoyal
County: Meath
Posts: 4268

1023304
Where have you got this figure of 99% from hill16no1man?

the central statistics office man you are quite a stickler arent you it was a guesstimate from listening to everybody from outside dublin and donegals opinions
dont take it to heart

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 30/08/2011 20:37:02    1023409

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 4110

1023335
I agree hurling and I also believe that most Dubs KNOW they are going to have to stiffle Colm Cooper and Kieran Donaghy if you are to prevail; how that happens I don't think Dubs fans care. All that matters to your fans is that you win END OF!

you could look at it the other way around that kerry will have to stifle the brogans and connally if he plays to prevail

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 30/08/2011 20:42:59    1023416

That is fine Hill16. I was hoping for a Donegal win on Sunday so please include my preference in your next guesstimate. That might bring your figure down to 98%?

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 30/08/2011 20:47:25    1023428

I for 1 don't need Pat Spillane to make up my mind.
Ever since the 1st championship match on the tv, Antrim v Donegal when I actually turned off the tv instead of watching that carry on.

Look Donegal had a great year. History books will show them as Ulster Champs and All Semi Finalists but for the normal football supporter most of there games this year was nothing short of putrid to watch.

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 30/08/2011 22:02:31    1023546

"barry cahill did the same to lacey as what donegal player did to ger brennan" That's alright then is it? Two wrongs now make a right?

So we have one team who in one season were ultra defensive and we now need to re-think the rule book for everything from numbers on the pitch to the hand pass. Think people need to take stock and catch a grip. Last time I looked the hand pass was still legitimate and defending was a critical part to winning any game so in my eyes and in the letter of the law Donegal have done no wrong. At the end of the day it's a competition and the ultimate aim is to win it. I know it's not pretty but I can't remember which rule stats that it has to be, if anyone can fine the pretty rule can they post it on here.

spyboy (Antrim) - Posts: 343 - 31/08/2011 09:45:36    1023590

Ye make it sound like Donegal are going to change Gaelic football forever.

They aren't, they had to play a negative style because they have limited players. There are God knows how many good footballers & several good teams in the country who will never resort to this style of play because they will never need to. Plus the vast majority of managers would not settle for playing in this fashion

Enough about it already...

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 31/08/2011 11:23:13    1023688

There needs to be a change of rule re kickout times and times taken to take frees. 10 second rule would sharpen things up.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 31/08/2011 11:56:16    1023732

hill16man,

i stand by what i say one all -ireland in 27 or 2 in 34 years is apoor return for a massive county ( not just population but gaa clubs) Please let me explain

no minors since '84 ( yes they are in the final this year but they haven't won it yet)
2 U-21 titles
when was ther last NFL title - a while ago!

Now look at the fact the number of players at dublin's disposal is unbelieveable - they have 12/13 divisions - and trust me div. 7/8/9 is a far higher standard than the Armagh Division 4 .
Armagh is a small county -we have only 51 clubs in total, hurling and football and it might surprise you that over half the clubs in the county have little or no underage structure (unable to field on their own - and have to amlgamate)
My point is that Dublin has underachieved for the last 20 years, and most dublin supporters would agree with me - thereare many massive gaa clubs, great facilities, good coaching, great numbers playing..... but the county has underachieved...
Dublin should be dominating football but they are not
In the last 10 years we have won senior, minor, u-21, NFL 1 and 2, and club - wehit above our weight and may wait another 100yrs for another senior title, but in the last 10/20 years
Cork
Kerry
Tyrone
Down
Mayo
Galway
Meath
Armagh
Laois
derry
have won more or as many inter county titles as dublin (, minor, senior, u-21)

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 31/08/2011 12:05:20    1023746