Donegals tactics have been very effective all year. But they took it to a new level yesterday. If I was a Donegal man yesterday no matter how much I backed mcguinness previously I would be livid that he didn't have the balls to push on and win the game. Whatever for their tactics which got them that far, it was the same tactics that lost them the match yesterday. Jim mcguinness bottled it yesterday because he was too frightened to take the game to Dublin.

Loyal I see your point but Donegal were not set up to win games this year. They were set up to not get hammered like that were by Armagh last year. Jim
Mcguinness knew yesterday that no matter what happened in the last ten minutes he would be able to talk about league and ulster medals and not getting hammered. he showed his true self.

I wonder what the u-12s in glenties will be doing in their match on Saturday morning. If theyre emulating their heroes then god help us for years to come.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 29/08/2011 16:55:07    1022039

On come on Hillman, don't miss the point.

You know my point is that Charlton brought Ireland to heights they've never been to before playing defensive ugly soccer. By the same token, Jim McGuinness has brought Donegal to the greatest of their successes for 19 years

Point is, it's a horrible way of playing but you cannot deny it works for some teams as it did for Donegal until they met the better team

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 29/08/2011 16:55:38    1022040

gigoer thats exactly it in your last line until they met a better team
thats why i say it only works up to a point you cannot be the best without attacking just like ireland ultimatly couldnt do anything when it mattered

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/08/2011 17:05:11    1022052

A very diverse set of views on this and valid points made by both sides. Dublin's experience at this level told yesterday. Bad days and harsh lessons at the hands of Tyrone, Kerry and Cork have been learned and the bad points made good. However, to completely write off Donegal's style of play is wrong in my view. I met Jimmy McGuinness a few months ago and had a decent conversation with him and the style of play came up. He said (and has repeated publicly since) that for years Donegal tried to play nice open football and got hammered. He said that they used to play against Tyrone, get plaudits for giving it a go and got hammered. As a result things had to change. He is also on record saying that they have to improve the attacking side of their game. This does not happen overnight. The main focus is making yourself hard to beat, which they have done and the next phase is to do probably what Tyrone mastered first and Dublin have now mastered as well, being able to attack and defend with numbers equally well.

Dublin are also set up defensively, the difference is that they are further down the road in terms of development of their gameplan, and more importantly have far better forwards than Donegal. Against Tyrone last year Dublin conceded all the kickouts to Tyrone much like Donegal did yesterday. The reason why the game last year was better is that Tyrone attack with essentially everyone leaving the full back line to fend for themselves. Dublin worked it out last year that quick ball in against Tyrone is the best way to play them and it worked just about, allowing for Tyrone's wastefulness, but Dublin progressed this year and perfected the gameplan to destroy Tyrone. Against Tyrone this year Dublin played with two men spare in defence at all times, the plan to let Tyrone get to the 45m line knowing that if they turned them over quickly by sheer force of numbers and let the ball in then Tyrone's half back line was likely already past the ball and Brogan and Connolly were one on one against their men.

People suggesting that football won yesterday over anti football are also wrong. Donegal were in still in control with 10 minutes to go however, the fact that they and indeed their manager were inexperienced at this level saw them make the mistake of not changing tack and forcing the play when they went a man up. At this point they decided to zonal mark as opposed to man marking as they did for 60 minutes when man marking would have allowed them to keep the Dublin half backs from pushing up which was the decisive factor in Dublin winning the game. Donegal will not always play as they did yesterday. The time will come whenever they have the confidence to attack with the same verve as they defend, Dublin have learned the lesson that they can't hope to go out and take on the Kerry's and previously the Tyrone's of this world in a shoot out and win and Donegal will learn the lesson that you can't continue to defend continiously and hope to outscore your opponent by a point every time to win.

I do think that Dublin are far enough down the road to beat Kerry and if they continue to defend like they do with discipline then they without question have plent of firepower to cause Kerry trouble.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 29/08/2011 17:15:11    1022072

There must have been a fantastic atmosphere there yesterday lads.....couldn't even hear the ref's whistle at times on the TV.

Cute_Kerry_Hoor (Kerry) - Posts: 2518 - 29/08/2011 17:19:33    1022083

derry_ledd....How do you think glenties won their county championship by parking 15 behind the ball so their u 10s have probably beeen doing that for the last 6 years!!...Its amazing how everyone constantly has a go at mayo after every defeat at croke park...well at least we never resorted to the tactics witnessed yesterday and hand on heart i believe most most mayo people if they were given the choice between getting to the final and playing like that or losing in the semi fianl would take losing in the semin final any day...The bigger picture is unlike soccer when ireland were hoofing the ball forward is that it is a global game gaelic football is an indeginous game so the bigger picture is that even if 70% of soccer games are muck the exposure from the 30% decent games makes this irrelevent..If yesterday was the 2nd most important game played by 2 out of the 5 best teams in the country the game itself is in serious trouble

jibber (Mayo) - Posts: 117 - 29/08/2011 17:23:45    1022089

yeah was great atmosphere

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/08/2011 17:38:12    1022113

As I walked away from watching that game, all I could keep saying to myself was WOW, did I just actually witness that. It's challenging to come up with enough cogent adjectives to truly encapsulate one's feelings for what was truly an awful example, of sport of any kind.

While both sides are guilty of using tactics to overcome their deficiences. It has to be said that Donegals negativity brings cynical tactics to a whole other level. Not only is it NOT effective, (more on that further down) it's just utter tripe, and a total disgrace to the game of Gaelic football. "Poison to the eyes" indeed, the best thing about the game was Pat Spillanes half time comedy routine which really was funny.

Stats: There were 12 frees in the first 14 minutes, the 24th minute, gave us the game's third score. It was 0-4 to 0-2 in favour of Donegal at the interval. The Dubs managed just two points from play and none in the first half. Stephen Cluxton (goalkeeper) was his side's second highest scorer. Their starting six forwards scored just one point from open play between them; Dublin's first score from open play didn't come until the 60th minute; and Donegal didn't register a single score after the 44th minute. OMG!!!!!! Bartender, pore me a double, quick!

Donegal are of course entitled to set their stall out as they wish. Their sole aim was to win the game, no matter what the cost. However, the cost in my opinion is far too heavy a price to pay. Jim Mcguinness may think he's building for the future, that he is breaking the mold and creating something new. However, ask yourself this, what young player is going to want to emulate that rubbish? If this is what passes for 21st century coaching in Donegal, well I won't be wishing you good luck with that, but rather that your vision will return soon and that you see the error of your ways.

Dublin, ah yes the Dubs are back in their first All-Ireland in 16 years and this will be there 36th appearance, if my data is correct (winning 22) however it must be said that 11 of those titles came before 1910, with that being said, in the last 100 yrs dublin have appeared in 25 and won 11 titles, all this from the most populated region of the country, certainly nothing to feel too excited about.

Back to the game, two points from play in 75 minutes of football is a shocking indictment for Dublin. Dublin seemed absolutely clueless, and without solutions to the ease at which Donegal were able to boss the game, in the face of a style of play that everyone knew was coming. Yet it is Dublin who advance by TWO points, with Donegal unable to score for the final 30 minutes of the game, utterly laughable!

As for the final, Dublin haven't a hope of beating Kerry not a hope, the same rubbish will be utterd by pundits, armchair and pro's alike as to how Dublin could win, IF the Brogans do this and the kerry backs do that, IF Dublin can limit the supply of ball into the forwards, IF Galvin isn't fit, etc etc, utter rubbish. The same excuses were offered up before Mayo played Kerry, and I posted as to what I thought of that. The thinking in a nutshell is maybe just maybe Kerry will underperform so we have a chance, good luck with that. Dublin will find out that Kerry got to this final at about 70% capacity, now they will add that extra 30%, and Dublin will not be able to stay with them over 70 mins.

As always thanks for reading.

Gaelfan21 (Dublin) - Posts: 13 - 29/08/2011 17:46:44    1022117

yes jibber and we should lock up our daughters...if mayo still believe they can win an all ireland playing pretty football, they are living in the past...you should tell james horan that because he has definitely perfected the "dark art" of packing the defence...don't buy into all the nonsense written and said by the dublin based media...the final will be exactly the same with 2 teams packing their defence when they get their noses in front...don't be fooled by the spillane hyperbole about the utopian game..it doesn't exist,and never actually did...just watch the re-runs on tg4 of the tripe that was dished up in the seventies and eighties

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 29/08/2011 17:47:14    1022120

Fantastic atmosphere alright, the Hill really came alive after the sending off. Definately worth 3 4 points a game to the Dubs. Our own fans made themselves heard also, it was great to be there to saviour the atmosphere.

Break_er (Donegal) - Posts: 798 - 29/08/2011 17:48:45    1022121

jibber- thats exactly why we are where we are; ie not having won sam in 60 years. I'd certainly prefer to sacrifice this pure entertainment football lark for seeing a mayo man collecting sam in the hogan. To me winning is all that counts. Sure isnt Horan going down that road himself this year (granted its not as extreme as donegal)- the only difference is that he tried to take the game to the opposition when they fell behind. Did you see the county final last year with Ballintubber and Castlebar? very similar to yesterdays game- but i dont think the ballintubber lads are/were too bothered about that. I can totally see McGuinness' logic in what he's doing and agree with it to a certain extent- he just needs to get the players to realise when to attack and to tweak his plan a bit to get the best out of murphy et al

don_juan (Mayo) - Posts: 26 - 29/08/2011 17:52:20    1022125

Yesterdays game was fascinating from a tactical viewpoint. I cannot understand all this talk of anti football and Donegal should be ashamed etc. Jim McGuinness has come up with a new tactic and it is up to the opposition to counteract it. The Donegal followers like supporters in every county are just looking for success their footballers have done them proud this year in terms of effort and discipline. Donegal will probably need to get a better balance between defence and attack if they are to win an All Ireland but they made great strides this year.

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 29/08/2011 17:53:51    1022129

I feel alot of people are being very harsh on Donegal. I felt Dublin didnt do enough on the day to break down that blanket defence and their shooting was very very wasteful. however they where patient and credit to them they came through , But ala Cork last year , Ultimately experience in the last 5-10 minutes of being in situations like Dublin yesterday is what got us over the line

Donegal tired a serious amount and they just ran out of steam. I do think they will learn from this defeat like we did ours last year and will bounce back next year. I like many dont like the kind of football BOTH sides adopted yesterday although Dublin to a lesser extent. (you have to look at it and balance your opinion here) . But sure the end result is what matters , Its what has always mattered in sport .. winning , How you do it used to be doing it playin lovely ball , but its not like that anymore. If Donegal had that little bit more experience they would have won yesterday. Unfortunately for them they didnt

Fortunatley for us we are lucky , very lucky , to be in an all ireland final. But thats all. We havnt won anything , Our next game is the most important one. its phenomonal and a great feeling for me personally to finally see the dubs win an all ireland semi final and progress to the final. This year however will only be a massive success if we go on and win the all ireland and i believe we are capable of doing so.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 29/08/2011 17:55:57    1022132

There was a great atmosphere, and fair play to the Donegal supporters for coming in great numbers. 30,000 coming from Donegal is some support. And as always the Dubs bring great numbers and banter to CP. Hopefully yous will go on and win it now.

And to Jibber from Mayo, you are talking nothing but Jibber. I know plenty of mayo men that would not care if they won the all Ireland 1-nil as long as they won it. And i can safely say 90% of Mayo supporters would feel the same.

The fact is Dublin are a year or two ahead of us in experience and work , and this was said before the game. Mcguiness has a Five year plan and i am sure that he will work more on getting more scores next year.

The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 29/08/2011 18:03:56    1022139

That is a very good post Omaghredhand, and not a bad one from the Dub Hill16no1 a page back.

Derry_Ledd, I don't think much has changed in terms of the Glenties u14s. The skills of Gaelic Football remain the same, you need to be able to catch, kick, tackle, solo. An irrelevant argument really but if people insist on posing this question, then you train the young players exactly as you have always trained them, and if you wish you highlight the effort and the teamwork that has went into Donegal senior panel 2011.

As for the Mayo poster above, have you watched your team all year? Mayo were a minature Donegal with the intensity and discipline that they brought to the tackle. The Cork game was a very impressive display of defending. Nothing wrong with the way Donegal or Mayo play but for a Mayo person to have a go at Donegal for their system of play is a small bit ironic!

Loyal2TheRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 4522 - 29/08/2011 18:05:15    1022143

The Donegal team done their best to kill the atmosphere with their style of play but they lost that battle also!

PJ (None) - Posts: 2288 - 29/08/2011 18:19:34    1022150

First of all I'd like to congratulate Dublin on their win yesterday , the Dublin supporters that I met are a credit to your county and very good winners. Best of luck to you in the final and hope you win.

I'd also like to say that I'm very proud of our County Team and management and with the level of commitment they have shown this year, winning Ulster and getting to the All Ireland semi-final. I'm DISGUSTED at all the so called GAA people who are giving donegal criticism at unreal levels. The facts speak for themselves, when Jim took over this team was in the wilderness, the first thing any manager will do is strengthen the defence and it just happened that this alone took us as far as we have this year, Jim eluded to that point himself after yesterdays match that he will be working on the offensive side of our game for next year, judge us then. Had we been beat by Tyrone in the Ulster semi-final no one would have complained. These group of players deserve more credit than to have their names pulled through the mud and any genuine GAA person would appreciate the commitment they have given to the wonderful game we have.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 29/08/2011 18:31:13    1022157

PJ
County: All
Posts: 2054

I agree alot of Dubs around us were turning on their own team when things wern't going well - thats when I realised we were doing something right!

Break_er (Donegal) - Posts: 798 - 29/08/2011 18:48:29    1022171

I thought we were poor yesterday. We had weeks to prepare for donegal and it looked like we hadnt a clue? Just about fell over the line, thank God. People are being too harsh on donegal. We had to change after getting hammered by kerry and tyrone recently. I dont want to be on the end of a hammering just to entertain some pundit or the 'back in the good ole days' brigade. We need to cop on and try to replicate the quarter final form. Otherwise it'll be a turkey shoot for kerry.

JimmyK (Dublin) - Posts: 240 - 29/08/2011 19:13:32    1022191

Watched the game in Paidi O Shea's pub in Ventry. Paudi bursts in just before kick off grabs a seat in front of one of the tellys. Elbows on table his jaw propped up by his mighty fists he watches the game with religous intensity (For about 20 mins) then abruptly Paidi jumps up and walks out. Now maybe Paidi had to be somewhere else but to my mind he wanted to be somewhere else and to be honest I wouldn't blame him. That game was awful to watch, if teams continue to play like that they will have to change the rules to limit the number of players any team may have in either half of the pitch at any one time. In addition to the Ref/Linesmen and Umpires we will now have to employ "The Counters" to ensure we have a watchable product.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 29/08/2011 19:16:34    1022193