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Replying To Fionn: "Exactly - if Kerry really wanted to beat Cork by 10 or 15 points - they would be able to do it.
Miles ahead of them.
To say Cork are close to them, is pie in the sky, and only spoof.
And the year Cork beat them - yes, Kerry did take their eye off the ball and focus too much on an upcoming game with Dublin. A blind man could see that.
Freak results happen all the time - but for anyone to say Munster is competitive is not being honest." Indeed Fionn Im not suggesting Munster is competitive but what I am saying is one has a chance of a tight game with Kerry and Cork.In Leinster no team can get close to Dublin.Cork went toe to toe with Kerry again last year.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 16/04/2024 09:07:18
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Indeed Fionn Im not suggesting Munster is competitive but what I am saying is one has a chance of a tight game with Kerry and Cork.In Leinster no team can get close to Dublin.Cork went toe to toe with Kerry again last year." To be honest, both Meath and Kildare should be better.
Forget about Leinster for one minute - Meath are mid table Div 2 and Kildare now Div 3.
So based on that, how are they to be competitive v Dublin at this point. Both counties have a big population and both appear to have good underage teams. (Dublin at underage are not world beaters by any stretch.) But it is not only against Dublin they are failing to beat. Look at their league results.
People banging the drum about taking Dublin out of Leinster. Seriously. The Leinster teams, no offence, would currently struggle in Ulster. As would all the Munster teams, except Kerry.
And now let's look at Cork. What the hell is going on there. Seriously. With their population and sponsorship. G.A.A. need to seriously look at Cork.
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 09:25:32
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I agree Cork would get destroyed by Dublin too but my point is no one in Leinster is able to come close to Dublin.In Munster Cork can put it up to Kerry on any given day.Im not saying Munster is competitive at all.Its nearly as bad as Leinster but at least there s hope of a competitive game.Kerry only beat Cork by two points last year with both teams scoring same amount of scores 1-14 to 15points." Mick if Kerry wanted to beat Cork by more than 19 points they could. If not, then everyone including myself are seriously over estimating the quality of Kerry.
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 09:28:49
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Replying To Fionn: "Mick if Kerry wanted to beat Cork by more than 19 points they could. If not, then everyone including myself are seriously over estimating the quality of Kerry." typo - 10pts
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 09:34:49
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Replying To Fionn: "To be honest, both Meath and Kildare should be better.
Forget about Leinster for one minute - Meath are mid table Div 2 and Kildare now Div 3.
So based on that, how are they to be competitive v Dublin at this point. Both counties have a big population and both appear to have good underage teams. (Dublin at underage are not world beaters by any stretch.) But it is not only against Dublin they are failing to beat. Look at their league results.
People banging the drum about taking Dublin out of Leinster. Seriously. The Leinster teams, no offence, would currently struggle in Ulster. As would all the Munster teams, except Kerry.
And now let's look at Cork. What the hell is going on there. Seriously. With their population and sponsorship. G.A.A. need to seriously look at Cork." I agree with all you say here Fionn.Meath Kildare Cork have very little excuses.Id give Cork a little leeway (pardon the punn)as they lose alot of fine footballers to hurling (like Dublin hurlers to football).Cork always have good underage footballers and in fact when Kerry won 5 minors in a row Cork were the only team to run them close.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 16/04/2024 09:47:59
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Replying To Fionn: "Mick if Kerry wanted to beat Cork by more than 19 points they could. If not, then everyone including myself are seriously over estimating the quality of Kerry." Well maybe you are over estimating Kerry cos tbh Dublin are a far better team imo.Yes we have a punchers chance v Dubs as we have serious talent but Dublin more balanced.Also we are weaker without Jack Barry midfield (unheralded player but great solid worker).Also maybe people under estimate Cork.Yes they have been poor in the league last few years but come championship they can be different.People forget that Kerry just beat them by 2points last year and then they went on to beat Mayo and Roscommon before losing to a fine Derry side by 4 pts in the quarter final.No Cork are not All Ireland contenders but not as weak as some think.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 16/04/2024 10:09:12
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Well maybe you are over estimating Kerry cos tbh Dublin are a far better team imo.Yes we have a punchers chance v Dubs as we have serious talent but Dublin more balanced.Also we are weaker without Jack Barry midfield (unheralded player but great solid worker).Also maybe people under estimate Cork.Yes they have been poor in the league last few years but come championship they can be different.People forget that Kerry just beat them by 2points last year and then they went on to beat Mayo and Roscommon before losing to a fine Derry side by 4 pts in the quarter final.No Cork are not All Ireland contenders but not as weak as some think." Well it cant be just me over estimating the quality of Kerry.
I have never seen a poor bookie...
They have Kerry as the 2nd best team in Ireland currently.
Cork at 100/1
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 10:41:43
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I agree with all you say here Fionn.Meath Kildare Cork have very little excuses.Id give Cork a little leeway (pardon the punn)as they lose alot of fine footballers to hurling (like Dublin hurlers to football).Cork always have good underage footballers and in fact when Kerry won 5 minors in a row Cork were the only team to run them close." In fairness the 2018 minor final was close and only resolved in the last few mins similar to the 2022 senior final. I get your sense though. Cork more likely to run Kerry closer in Munster than what Meath on past evidence have been putting up to Dublin. Munster though has gone back again particularly with Tipperary not kicking on from the period 2016 to 2020.
kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1949 - 16/04/2024 10:48:46
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Replying To kiloughter: "In fairness the 2018 minor final was close and only resolved in the last few mins similar to the 2022 senior final. I get your sense though. Cork more likely to run Kerry closer in Munster than what Meath on past evidence have been putting up to Dublin. Munster though has gone back again particularly with Tipperary not kicking on from the period 2016 to 2020." The quality of football in Munster excluding Kerry is mediocre to say the least.
Recently nearly always a foregone conclusion, with the very odd exception...
What League Division are the other Munster counties in - that says it all - same as Leinster teams.
Taking Dublin out of Leinster or Kerry out of Munster is not the answer, no matter how many sound bites it gets.
That is a lazy argument tbh.
I think Meath are actually a better team than Cork. So how does that fit into this argument.????
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 11:00:43
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Replying To Fionn: "The quality of football in Munster excluding Kerry is mediocre to say the least.
Recently nearly always a foregone conclusion, with the very odd exception...
What League Division are the other Munster counties in - that says it all - same as Leinster teams.
Taking Dublin out of Leinster or Kerry out of Munster is not the answer, no matter how many sound bites it gets.
That is a lazy argument tbh.
I think Meath are actually a better team than Cork. So how does that fit into this argument.????" This summer may prove otherwise but results to date would suggest Cork are ahead of Meath. Cork have beaten division 1 teams over the last few years. When is the last time Meath bet a Div 1 team? Going by the league this year Cork had their number as well.
I agree that the idea of taking Dublin or Kerry out of their provinces is no answer. The Leinster and Munster scenarios are different. Hurling is the dominant code in all Munster counties bar Kerry. The problem in Leinster is Meath and Kildare are under perfomring relative to all their advantages and good underage teams. The GAA made a decision to make Dublin great again, to borrow a phrase, after the success of the soccer teams in the early 90s. Should a similar approach now be taken with some of the Leinster counties?
MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 808 - 16/04/2024 11:42:25
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Replying To Fionn: "The quality of football in Munster excluding Kerry is mediocre to say the least.
Recently nearly always a foregone conclusion, with the very odd exception...
What League Division are the other Munster counties in - that says it all - same as Leinster teams.
Taking Dublin out of Leinster or Kerry out of Munster is not the answer, no matter how many sound bites it gets.
That is a lazy argument tbh.
I think Meath are actually a better team than Cork. So how does that fit into this argument.????" If not better than Cork, then certainly on a par.
I wouldn't have a lot of difference between the quality of both teams at present tbh.
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 11:44:26
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Replying To Fionn: "The quality of football in Munster excluding Kerry is mediocre to say the least.
Recently nearly always a foregone conclusion, with the very odd exception...
What League Division are the other Munster counties in - that says it all - same as Leinster teams.
Taking Dublin out of Leinster or Kerry out of Munster is not the answer, no matter how many sound bites it gets.
That is a lazy argument tbh.
I think Meath are actually a better team than Cork. So how does that fit into this argument.????" Well tbh I dont agree and Imo Cork are better than Meath and I dont think Meath would have been able to beat Mayo last year in the championship like Cork.That aside I know the Munster championship is a shambles.All Im saying is Cork are able to put in up to Kerry every so often whereas no one in Leinster can come near Dublin.The facts are both provincial championships are dead in the water.Fans are voting with their ticket purchases.21.000 for Dub/Meath game is very sad.In fact only for the camoige there would be a few thousand less.Change is needed in Leinster and Munster and maybe yes counties might have to move provinces.Sure the Leinster hurling championship has Galway Antrim and even Kerry hurlers a few years ago so all 4provinces were represented in Leinster.Things will change some way because one certain fact is that the Gaa want to make money.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 16/04/2024 12:06:36
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Replying To Fionn: "Well it cant be just me over estimating the quality of Kerry.
I have never seen a poor bookie...
They have Kerry as the 2nd best team in Ireland currently.
Cork at 100/1" Fair enough comment Fionn but the bookies odds are worked out by actuarers and the amount of money betted on teams so yes alot must see Kerry as number 2 although for me they are number 3 at mo.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 16/04/2024 12:12:13
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I agree Cork would get destroyed by Dublin too but my point is no one in Leinster is able to come close to Dublin.In Munster Cork can put it up to Kerry on any given day.Im not saying Munster is competitive at all.Its nearly as bad as Leinster but at least there s hope of a competitive game.Kerry only beat Cork by two points last year with both teams scoring same amount of scores 1-14 to 15points." I think the difference is while Kerry are a very very good team, they do have their off days and can be vulnerable at times. That's what gives Cork a bit of hope. Especially in a tighter county ground with a good atmosphere.
We know from the last year or two Meath are Cork are at a similar level, so how does it make sense Cork can run Kerry to a few points and Meath can't get within 16 of Dublin?
The elephant in the room is Dublin, they're absolute juggernauts and there's only 2 teams capable of beating them.
hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 16/04/2024 12:14:51
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Replying To hyperache: "I think the difference is while Kerry are a very very good team, they do have their off days and can be vulnerable at times. That's what gives Cork a bit of hope. Especially in a tighter county ground with a good atmosphere.
We know from the last year or two Meath are Cork are at a similar level, so how does it make sense Cork can run Kerry to a few points and Meath can't get within 16 of Dublin?
The elephant in the room is Dublin, they're absolute juggernauts and there's only 2 teams capable of beating them." This is probably nail on the head in fairness.
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 13:24:14
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It is strange to see the underachievement of Kildare and Meath in Leinster. You would think they'd be spurred on by the success of Dublin and would go all out to try and rein them those uppity Dubs. Instead they've probably gone backwards, despite Kildare's success at under-20 level, although I would hope that will prove a turnaround for them (and they lost to Dublin by just 2 points last year). Meath fell to Offaly last year. In 2018, Carlow beat Kildare and Longford beat Meath.
I've seen nearly everyone saying how all the provincial championships are broken apart from Ulster, and I've wondered what the difference is between it and Leinster. They both have quarter-finals and a round before then; Ulster's draw is completely unseeded (but preliminary round teams in the past two years get to skip that round), and Leinster is seeded; the semi-finalists skip Round 1 and are kept apart in the quarter-finals. But otherwise, there's not much difference. Games in Ulster are very competitive (I believe; there's not much said about Dublin-style thrashings, if they happen), and games in Leinster not involving Dublin are reasonably competitive too. I concocted this table of results from the Leinster Championship from 2011 onwards, the year after the last time Dublin didn't win it. The results come from Wikipedia, so apologies if it or I made any mistakes. Although Meath and Kildare are way ahead of everybody else, they've still lost five games each over the past 14 championships, and any of the other teams can beat any of the others on any given day. Sorry about the formatting.
App = number of appearances in the Leinster final against Dublin
. . . . . . . . . Pl . W D . L App
Kildare . . . 25 18 2 . 5 . 3
Meath . . . . 23 18 0 . 5 . 5
Laois . . . . . 20 11 1 . 8 . 1
Louth . . . . . 20 10 0 10. 1
Westmeath 19 . 9 1 . 9 . 2
Wexford. . . 18 . 9 0 . 9 . 1
Offaly. . . . . 20 . 6 1 13 . 0
Longford. . 19 . 6 1 12 . 0
Wicklow . . 19 . 6 0 13 . 0
Carlow . . . 17 . 4 0 13 . 0
I see no reason why Meath and Kildare can't step up and challenge Dublin, or why they didn't step up in the mid 2010s.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1052 - 16/04/2024 14:23:16
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Replying To hyperache: "I think the difference is while Kerry are a very very good team, they do have their off days and can be vulnerable at times. That's what gives Cork a bit of hope. Especially in a tighter county ground with a good atmosphere.
We know from the last year or two Meath are Cork are at a similar level, so how does it make sense Cork can run Kerry to a few points and Meath can't get within 16 of Dublin?
The elephant in the room is Dublin, they're absolute juggernauts and there's only 2 teams capable of beating them." I wouldn't really agree with this as I think you are basing the Meath/Cork comparison on a couple of league matches. Last year Cork beat two division 1 teams in the championship and ended up going out to Derry at the QF stage. Meath were playing in the TC. Re Kerry, I honestly believe we'll give them a right rattle on Sunday and don't think there will be much in it at the end. I don't think we'll win, but we won't be far away. - of course there's always the risk that I'll be eating these words on Saturday evening!
bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 282 - 16/04/2024 14:37:18
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Everyone knows how dominant Dublin are but a defeatist attitude never achieved anything in life.
If more funding went to the other counties in Leinster, more coaching in the schools then a bit of success at underage level would hopefully filter upwards to the senior ranks in time.
Using Meath as an example. Surely they should be tapping into their rich GAA heritage and trying to encourage a bigger following like they had in the late 80s, 90s and early 00's? I know O'Rourke is managing there now and that's a start. But I remember growing up absolutely hating Meath (in a good way) because not only were they good footballers, but they played right on the edge and often stepped well over it in terms of aggression. Has the influx of Dubs into Meath diluted that raw passion? You'd think it would be the opposite way about and they'd be absolutely ripping, dying to take Dublin down off their perch.
But I know that's easy for me to say up here, I don't know the ins and outs of it. When Donegal were successul under McGuinness first reign in charge, beating Dublin in the semi-final in 2014 was nearly a bigger highlight that winning the whole bloody thing in 2012. Because it meant that for all their population advantage, financial, playing in Croke Park etc, our bucks from the Hills still sent them packing.
Those saying Dublin would've walked Ulster in the 2010-2020 period are mistaken. Yes they'd ahve won their fair share. But if they had to play in a packed out MacCumhaill Park, or Healy Park in Omagh, with a ravenous Tyrone or Donegal team mad to get their claws into them, no way would it have been as handy for them to pick up provincial titles. They'd at least suffer a few injuries en route. That's another subplot btw, how many times do Dublin suffer injuries to key men? Very rarely, and they can afford to keep their experienced men in cotton wool if they choose. Does the handy provincial run enable them to coast along and avoid injuries?
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9187 - 16/04/2024 15:20:48
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Replying To bloodandbandage: "I wouldn't really agree with this as I think you are basing the Meath/Cork comparison on a couple of league matches. Last year Cork beat two division 1 teams in the championship and ended up going out to Derry at the QF stage. Meath were playing in the TC. Re Kerry, I honestly believe we'll give them a right rattle on Sunday and don't think there will be much in it at the end. I don't think we'll win, but we won't be far away. - of course there's always the risk that I'll be eating these words on Saturday evening!" I will be happy to eat my words also, but there is a massive gap between both sides.
Depending on the mindset of Kerry, it could be a mauling.
But i have no problem in being proved wrong, if it so transpires.
Either way - Cork should be a hell of a lot better in both Football and Hurling....
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3743 - 16/04/2024 16:17:32
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Replying To Fionn: "I will be happy to eat my words also, but there is a massive gap between both sides.
Depending on the mindset of Kerry, it could be a mauling.
But i have no problem in being proved wrong, if it so transpires.
Either way - Cork should be a hell of a lot better in both Football and Hurling...." Cork might be the team to watch in this years hurling championship.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3686 - 16/04/2024 20:12:38
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