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Replying To beano: "Yeah I thought the referee was poor enough (boys on the radio couldn't believe some of the frees awarded to both sides as well), but from watching the Clare-Limerick game, it seems to be a broader issue across the top table." The non-policing of the throw handpass is a massive blight in hurling at the moment and the non policing of overcarrying is a massive blight in both codes. Exiled in Wex and Barney please don't take this as 'he's having another go at Dublin' but the goal Sean Bugler got in the Dublin Meath game last week is the perfect example of this problem, my favorite description of it was he ran a line an inside centre would be proud of.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 22/04/2024 11:50:53
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Two turning points in the game yesterday.
1. Fanning's outrageous point from play which was sensational and we would have lost the game without it.
- side note it is worrying your goalie is scoring more from play than your forwards
2. Fanning had a free at the end of the match. He went for it and it went wide. He should have dropped it in or even better went to the corner and ate up time - pin Dublin back into their own corner and wind down the clock. He hit it wide. They had possession and we know the rest.
Yellow (Wexford) - Posts: 555 - 22/04/2024 11:54:23
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "No its completely different, majority of our wins over Kilkenny were deserved wins, 2022&23 they won because of our missed chances rather than anything positive they did, yesterday is self explanatory." That's fair enough but I don't think "deserving to win" really matters, reminds me of a quote from 'The Wire': "Deserve's got nothing to do with it"
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 278 - 22/04/2024 11:57:07
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Replying To Timbertony: "The latter I would say, started treating the second half like a challenge game and nearly paid the price. The first half we scored at our ease but didn't bury them. Going on results Antrim are nowhere near that level this season." Yes, on all known form lines, we should win and win easily next week but as everyone remembers with the Westmeath game, we have a habit of messing things up
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 278 - 22/04/2024 12:00:00
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Replying To Viking66: "Molloy has height too, something we are lacking. Not sure who you would start Charlie instead of tbh" I presume he's still in the panel. Think he is worth his place at wing back if we can get him back fit
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 145 - 22/04/2024 12:12:20
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Replying To beano: "Okay, so we've beaten Kilkenny in the last two round robin deciders, but they still went on to win Leinster (something which would be regarded as a hugely successful season for us), and thus defeat meant feck all to them but victory was worth its weight its gold to us. I'll take your point on the draw in 2019, but the bigger freak there was the draw in the other game, and again the net result was that Kilkenny lived to fight another day as well (and weren't in danger of exiting the championship in any case). Obviously, our Leinster final win and semi-final win in 2017 against them are a different kettle of fish altogether and something I'll never forget.
But my initial point remains: our last two wins vs them had far more jeopardy riding on it for us than them, and thus has to be considered in that context. I hope its the same this time around, although seemingly KK lost Murphy, Mullen and Cody to injury yesterday so might be a bit more vulnerable all of a sudden.
Will ignore your last sentence, needless dig." In 2022 they were out of the AI series altogether if Galway hadn't beaten Dublin. And that win for Galway was their only win over Dublin since 2018. How much more jeopardy do you want?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12103 - 22/04/2024 12:14:12
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Replying To OasisorBlur: "A lot of valid points being made here on yesterday.
-Goals have been mentioned and lack of, Wexford have simply got to go after goals more, goals kill games and win games. Liam Óg went in along the endline in second half and blazed wide, Conor Mac had another half chance and fumbled. These are the difference between winning games and losing or drawing. KK ruthlessly destroyed Antrim yesterday with goals and will do the same to other teams. Hurling and hurling tactics would really have you scratching your head - Wexford put a ball onto the edge of the square in the first minute of the game and we won a peno and scored a goal. Dublin were in big trouble in the last minute and decide to lob a few balls in and they got two goals. Who knew that playing balls directly into the danger zone can lead to goals?????? This obviuosly doesnt mean landing every ball directly in but teams need to cut out the fluting around every now and then and just go direct, its a symptom of over obsession with possession. How many more goals would Dublin have scored if they were more direct?? Coaches over complicating the game, when the backs are to the wall then players just take over and launch direct and look what happenned yesterday as was the same V Westmeath last year. Its not rocket science but not sexy enough for modern coaches obvioulsy.
-Referee - People commenting Wexford were hard done by the ref, I dont agree, I think the game suffered greatly because of the referee blowing far too often on both teams, the second half was littered with frees. Wexford are very poor and awkward in the tackle at times and this has been a problem for a while. A ball went into the corner in first half and the Recks had Cian O Sullivan or possibly Currie two to one outnumbered - no danger, Damien went high with the hurl clipped the helmet and its a tap over free. Thats only one example but there were several more, foolish use of the hurl that will always lead to frees..
Its up to Antrim now and they need to be ruthless up there, Antrim are miles off where there were last year with a lot of players gone so really anything but a 5-10 point win is acceptable and thats not being dismissive at all but if KK can put 5-30 something past Antrim we can surely beat them by a decent margin." Alot of the players who were gone are now back. McManus is a huge loss obviously.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12103 - 22/04/2024 12:15:25
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Bit off topic but surprised how quiet the Dublin supporters were yesterday, taught the 600 or 700 Kilmacud kids down towards the town end of the open side would have a bit of a Mini Galatasaray but you wouldn't have even noticed they were there from further up the open side." Thought our own supporters were quiet too but maybe that had a lot to do with the lack of fluidity in our play and the ref constantly blowing the whistle never let the game flow at all
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 145 - 22/04/2024 12:16:33
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Replying To Afinestick96: "I presume he's still in the panel. Think he is worth his place at wing back if we can get him back fit" He is. Hurt hamstring.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12103 - 22/04/2024 12:16:59
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "None!
It was a miracle that some top inter county players drove so many bad wides last year but if you don't take your chances, that's on you.
As I always say win lose or draw the scoreboard decides every match and everything else is just idle chat.
We all move on." That's fair. We have to take that on the Chin.
We can't seem to buy a bit of luck at the moment, and me going on about it is probably part of the problem. Loser's mindset.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2716 - 22/04/2024 12:17:14
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I think our biggest problems right now are psychological because when you look back at it, the draws in the league against KK and Clare and the win against Waterford were good pieces of form but the draw against Offaly in anything but (Although maybe could have been a different story if not for Jacko's red card).
Couple that with our performances against Kilkenny in the championship in recent years and then against Westmeath and Antrim in the same timeframe (And to some extent Dublin) and it looks obvious at this stage that we play to the level of the opposition. That's what'd worry me against Antrim, the feeling that we might mess around and leave them in a game and then get our backsides burned at the end. Although knowing how we've been in the recent past, you couldn't rule us out losing to Antrim and then beating Galway
For whatever reason, we lack the ruthless edge Kilkenny possess and I don't know how we go about developing it. Oulart were ruthless enough in Wexford so maybe Rossi will instil it in us but I feel like we might need a deep run in the championship before we fully believe in ourselves and develop that ruthless edge
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 278 - 22/04/2024 12:19:49
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Replying To beano: "Okay, so we've beaten Kilkenny in the last two round robin deciders, but they still went on to win Leinster (something which would be regarded as a hugely successful season for us), and thus defeat meant feck all to them but victory was worth its weight its gold to us. I'll take your point on the draw in 2019, but the bigger freak there was the draw in the other game, and again the net result was that Kilkenny lived to fight another day as well (and weren't in danger of exiting the championship in any case). Obviously, our Leinster final win and semi-final win in 2017 against them are a different kettle of fish altogether and something I'll never forget.
But my initial point remains: our last two wins vs them had far more jeopardy riding on it for us than them, and thus has to be considered in that context. I hope its the same this time around, although seemingly KK lost Murphy, Mullen and Cody to injury yesterday so might be a bit more vulnerable all of a sudden.
Will ignore your last sentence, needless dig." The reason for the needless dig is the kick them when your down mentality you've shown plenty of times, you posted possibly the most disgusting thing I've ever read on this forum about the u20 hurlers a few years ago nothing to do with hurling, couldn't believe the mods let it go up and they subsequently correctly took it down. Your in absolutely no position to be taking a moral high ground.
"I'll take your point on the draw in 2019, but the bigger freak there was the draw in the other game" I've absolutely no idea what your talking about here, Dublin beat Galway in Parnell in the other game that Saturday evening meaning the loser of our game was out and it was a draw, I remember at full time confusion just reigned, I knew we had top 3 but didn't know who was the Leinster final pairing.
As I mentioned 2023 there nothing at stake for Kilkenny, your 1st sentence is complete nonsense regards 2022 , as Kilkenny lost to us they had no control over there faith they were completely reliant on results elsewhere to get a top 3 let alone Leinster final place, all in all another post which shows the kick them when there down mentality you have,
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 22/04/2024 12:25:45
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "That's fair enough but I don't think "deserving to win" really matters, reminds me of a quote from 'The Wire': "Deserve's got nothing to do with it"" Your right its no use to us now.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 22/04/2024 12:26:28
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Conor Mcdonald has to start, he is a scorer and we need him to help chin and rory
Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 442 - 22/04/2024 12:31:53
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Replying To Lockerroomboy: "Conor Mcdonald has to start, he is a scorer and we need him to help chin and rory" Agree with that but it worries me if we play him he does lack pace and we might veer away from our running game which is what works well for us and start hoofing high balls in on Mac
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 145 - 22/04/2024 12:56:39
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Replying To Lockerroomboy: "Conor Mcdonald has to start, he is a scorer and we need him to help chin and rory" Maybe in place of Richie but I think Casey deserves another run out the next day after his form in the league. In fairness to him we played almost no ball into him and any we did wasn't the kind of ball a small player like him favours. Need to play low ball in front of him like we were in the league. If he can get the ball into his hand he's a scorer and can do damage.
Fulgrim (Wexford) - Posts: 232 - 22/04/2024 12:59:02
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Liam griffin has in the past spoken about 'hurling being a way of life' well Last year when we played Kilkenny this never to me felt more visceral, more intense, more real as if that way of life was hanging by a thread. Maybe it was just me but that day felt like we were all stepping into the area, that we would as supporters go above and beyond, cheer, barrack, clap, hoot and hollower - yes weren't on the pitch but we would be that oft spoken about '16th man.'
In marked contrast yesterday in Wexford park the atmosphere was muted, it didn't feel like championship, I don't think there was a single 'Wexford, Wexford chant' which was strange.
I realise I am stepping on dangerous ground as people reacted strongly last year when the county chairman pointed the poor Wexford support being a part of the reason our u20s lost to Offaly in Carlow but I believed at the time he was right and still do.
This sense prompted me to check what research has to tell us and
"One study found that when athletes receive frequent encouragement, effort levels increased by up to 7%. Performing in front of a crowd can also provide a positive distraction from fatigue. Focusing on the crowd and thriving off their atmosphere and energy has been demonstrated to be an effective strategy to help athletes when they are tiring and about to 'hit the wall'."
This article went onto talk about visual aids/stimulus saying:
"Fans often use visual aids flags, banners, etc Visual representations of encouragement can be used to create an atmosphere that influences athletes both physically and psychologically. In fact, it has been found to help boost the physical strength of athletes by up to 8%. This effect was most apparent during high intensity performances, which makes it the perfect strategy for the World Cup."
So please don't get me wrong I'm not blaming supporters but do want to explore something. In post-match analysis yesterday many people I spoke to felt there missing in Wexford, that as a county, despite huge passion, we keep suffering big collapses. You don't see this with the other serious hurling counties. This is bigger than one group of players, bigger than any manager, even bigger than the county board members. We have not won a minor all Ireland since 1968 - 56 years…or even appeared in one since 1985 (39 years). Why is this?
At senior level I believe we suffered significant psychological damage that persists to this day, from the hammers Brian Cody's Kilkenny meted out to us, at some level this is impacting teams to this day. We lack confidence, lack belief, lack real ambition or expectation. Yes, we latch onto any scrape of success but we go from high to low, hero to zero, we're either winning the all-Ireland or we're the worst team in history - we have little ability as a county to maintain perspective. We seem to have excuse after excuse to explain away problems, to numb the pain that facing reality brings.
The conclusion in rather bleak as the scale of the problem appears daunting BUT we have to address it and start making changes.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 59 - 22/04/2024 13:06:14
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "The reason for the needless dig is the kick them when your down mentality you've shown plenty of times, you posted possibly the most disgusting thing I've ever read on this forum about the u20 hurlers a few years ago nothing to do with hurling, couldn't believe the mods let it go up and they subsequently correctly took it down. Your in absolutely no position to be taking a moral high ground.
"I'll take your point on the draw in 2019, but the bigger freak there was the draw in the other game" I've absolutely no idea what your talking about here, Dublin beat Galway in Parnell in the other game that Saturday evening meaning the loser of our game was out and it was a draw, I remember at full time confusion just reigned, I knew we had top 3 but didn't know who was the Leinster final pairing.
As I mentioned 2023 there nothing at stake for Kilkenny, your 1st sentence is complete nonsense regards 2022 , as Kilkenny lost to us they had no control over there faith they were completely reliant on results elsewhere to get a top 3 let alone Leinster final place, all in all another post which shows the kick them when there down mentality you have," Its good to see you have such a good memory to remember something posted anonymously online a few years ago. You must have a lot of time on your hands.
And how am I displaying a 'kick them when they are down' mentality, especially when just yesterday evening someone else on here claimed that we're essentially a Joe McDonagh level team? In fact, I was very measured in my post-game comment yesterday and didn't stick the knife into anyone in particular.
But the truth is, being five up in injury-time, and even responding to one sucker-punch goal with an immediate point, but still not managing to hold on for the win, isn't good enough. Just like losing to Westmeath last year (in similar circumstances) was depolarable. That is a fact.
My initial point still stands, we took more stock from beating KK the last two years when defeat in those two games didn't define their season in the slightest. That is a fact too. I may have got mixed-up in how the other results went, fair enough, but then again I clearly don't have the same memory as your almighty self. I was looking at how our immediate positive result vs KK affected both parties- and they have won the last two Leinster titles despite losing to us. Again, a fact.
Ever feel like your talking to a brick wall?
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1424 - 22/04/2024 13:17:16
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Replying To beano: "Its good to see you have such a good memory to remember something posted anonymously online a few years ago. You must have a lot of time on your hands.
And how am I displaying a 'kick them when they are down' mentality, especially when just yesterday evening someone else on here claimed that we're essentially a Joe McDonagh level team? In fact, I was very measured in my post-game comment yesterday and didn't stick the knife into anyone in particular.
But the truth is, being five up in injury-time, and even responding to one sucker-punch goal with an immediate point, but still not managing to hold on for the win, isn't good enough. Just like losing to Westmeath last year (in similar circumstances) was depolarable. That is a fact.
My initial point still stands, we took more stock from beating KK the last two years when defeat in those two games didn't define their season in the slightest. That is a fact too. I may have got mixed-up in how the other results went, fair enough, but then again I clearly don't have the same memory as your almighty self. I was looking at how our immediate positive result vs KK affected both parties- and they have won the last two Leinster titles despite losing to us. Again, a fact.
Ever feel like your talking to a brick wall?" Relax lads it's only a game.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1916 - 22/04/2024 13:36:20
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Replying To wexford2012: "Liam griffin has in the past spoken about 'hurling being a way of life' well Last year when we played Kilkenny this never to me felt more visceral, more intense, more real as if that way of life was hanging by a thread. Maybe it was just me but that day felt like we were all stepping into the area, that we would as supporters go above and beyond, cheer, barrack, clap, hoot and hollower - yes weren't on the pitch but we would be that oft spoken about '16th man.'
In marked contrast yesterday in Wexford park the atmosphere was muted, it didn't feel like championship, I don't think there was a single 'Wexford, Wexford chant' which was strange.
I realise I am stepping on dangerous ground as people reacted strongly last year when the county chairman pointed the poor Wexford support being a part of the reason our u20s lost to Offaly in Carlow but I believed at the time he was right and still do.
This sense prompted me to check what research has to tell us and
"One study found that when athletes receive frequent encouragement, effort levels increased by up to 7%. Performing in front of a crowd can also provide a positive distraction from fatigue. Focusing on the crowd and thriving off their atmosphere and energy has been demonstrated to be an effective strategy to help athletes when they are tiring and about to 'hit the wall'."
This article went onto talk about visual aids/stimulus saying:
"Fans often use visual aids flags, banners, etc Visual representations of encouragement can be used to create an atmosphere that influences athletes both physically and psychologically. In fact, it has been found to help boost the physical strength of athletes by up to 8%. This effect was most apparent during high intensity performances, which makes it the perfect strategy for the World Cup."
So please don't get me wrong I'm not blaming supporters but do want to explore something. In post-match analysis yesterday many people I spoke to felt there missing in Wexford, that as a county, despite huge passion, we keep suffering big collapses. You don't see this with the other serious hurling counties. This is bigger than one group of players, bigger than any manager, even bigger than the county board members. We have not won a minor all Ireland since 1968 - 56 years…or even appeared in one since 1985 (39 years). Why is this?
At senior level I believe we suffered significant psychological damage that persists to this day, from the hammers Brian Cody's Kilkenny meted out to us, at some level this is impacting teams to this day. We lack confidence, lack belief, lack real ambition or expectation. Yes, we latch onto any scrape of success but we go from high to low, hero to zero, we're either winning the all-Ireland or we're the worst team in history - we have little ability as a county to maintain perspective. We seem to have excuse after excuse to explain away problems, to numb the pain that facing reality brings.
The conclusion in rather bleak as the scale of the problem appears daunting BUT we have to address it and start making changes." Best post I've ever read.
There were lads in tears for Kilkenny in the park last year. It meant everything to us. Players feel that.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2716 - 22/04/2024 13:44:51
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