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Which part doesn't make sense? Championship starts this weekend and almost no one gives a toss.
dolfos (Longford) - Posts: 112 - 03/04/2024 12:01:46
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "You are clueless if you think 33k is a decent crowd for the 4 counties involved on Sunday… You are right in saying there are too many meaningless Championship games but there has been some small attendances at league matches too…: People are fed up paying in to see players passing the ball over and back and then back to the keeper while at the mean time you could hear a pin drop amongst the disinterested crowd who had the misfortune to turn up… League may be better for the reasons given but the Championship is usually a bore fest apart from a couple of games in Ulster and a couple at the end of the year…. Imagine playing 24 round robin games to eliminate 4 teams… the 4 of which will basically be known before a ball is thrown in… Bonkers stuff" You said attendances are down overall. I asked you to show me the stats. You reply and tell me there were some small crowds at league games too. Never big crowds at league finals. You can look that up. It's not my opinion. It's fact. You then finish with a rant about the championship structure, something i have been saying here for years needs to radically change. Thanks for backing up my point again.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 03/04/2024 12:54:09
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "You are clueless if you think 33k is a decent crowd for the 4 counties involved on Sunday… You are right in saying there are too many meaningless Championship games but there has been some small attendances at league matches too…: People are fed up paying in to see players passing the ball over and back and then back to the keeper while at the mean time you could hear a pin drop amongst the disinterested crowd who had the misfortune to turn up… League may be better for the reasons given but the Championship is usually a bore fest apart from a couple of games in Ulster and a couple at the end of the year…. Imagine playing 24 round robin games to eliminate 4 teams… the 4 of which will basically be known before a ball is thrown in… Bonkers stuff" By the way i never said it was a great crowd. Not once anywhere did i say was. I said it was pretty much standard attendance for a league final. Higher than some other years.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 03/04/2024 13:11:12
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Replying To TheFlaker: "You said attendances are down overall. I asked you to show me the stats. You reply and tell me there were some small crowds at league games too. Never big crowds at league finals. You can look that up. It's not my opinion. It's fact. You then finish with a rant about the championship structure, something i have been saying here for years needs to radically change. Thanks for backing up my point again." I do think you are right as regards the Championship structure but you are away with the fairies if you think attendances at County games haven't dropped big time in the last 10 years…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1960 - 03/04/2024 13:13:16
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I do think you are right as regards the Championship structure but you are away with the fairies if you think attendances at County games haven't dropped big time in the last 10 years…" Cool feel free to post the stats on that. Especially on league games.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 03/04/2024 13:56:49
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I do think you are right as regards the Championship structure but you are away with the fairies if you think attendances at County games haven't dropped big time in the last 10 years…" Not saying the standard of football isn't a factor ForeverBlue cos I think it is. But there's more games now and more games on television. With money not being plentiful supporters might pick and choose more now games to attend and games to watch on TV/online.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7373 - 03/04/2024 16:58:27
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Replying To Tirchonailabu56: "Instead of lines 3m in from the side line, replace the D with 35m to 40m radius half circle from the middle of the goals end line, which would be 5m in from both corners in a 90m wide pitch. Any point scored from Points outide the new enlarged D would count as 2 points.
Points Inside the enlarged D count as 1.
Points from Sidelines count as 2.
Goals count as 4 points or maybe 5 points?
I think asking refs to keep count of how many frees conceded is adding too much to their workload and Likely to be prone to miscounts and refd errors due to the enormous Pressure they are already under.
The easiest change to implement is to change to 13 aside to account for the higher fitness levels of modern players. This along with points scored outside the enlarged D would go along way to making blanket defences tactically redundent.
I would add taking inspiration from the bonus try in rugby,
3 points awarded to winning team
1 point each for a draw
1 bonus point awarded to any team that scores 2 or more goals and 10 or more points, win, lose or draw, so even if a team loses, they are awarded a point for scoring minimum of 2 goals and 10 points. This would used in the league and the round robin all Ireland, not in quarters, semi's or finals.
The bonus point is to incentivise teams to score more goals and points and reward them for doing so." Instead of the semi circle, would a rectangle be easier to monitor - say, draw a broken line across the pitch from the top of the current D - call it the "33-metre line"?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2633 - 06/04/2024 00:26:04
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Replying To omahant: "Instead of the semi circle, would a rectangle be easier to monitor - say, draw a broken line across the pitch from the top of the current D - call it the "33-metre line"?" Would be easier to monitor Omahant alright, a linesman could just look across the pitch and judge in or out. But it's 33 metres from the end line, kicking points from in front of goal is 33 metres to the posts, left and right is more than 33 metres to posts and the closer to the sideline is further to kick. Like the basketball 3 point arc, Tirchonnail's arc would be same distance to kick for the posts all around. Could make for some interesting finishes to games. Ref is close to blowing final whistle, team a point down, have ball 20 metres from goal but a packed defence in front of them, kick it backwards to the 2 point shooter in his range. He kicks it high and true from 'downtown' , hangs in the air, drops over the bar. They win by a point. Bit of an American ending but the auld blanket didn't win the game. Goals are great but there's something special about a great point kicked in Gaelic Football.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7373 - 06/04/2024 21:15:05
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Would be easier to monitor Omahant alright, a linesman could just look across the pitch and judge in or out. But it's 33 metres from the end line, kicking points from in front of goal is 33 metres to the posts, left and right is more than 33 metres to posts and the closer to the sideline is further to kick. Like the basketball 3 point arc, Tirchonnail's arc would be same distance to kick for the posts all around. Could make for some interesting finishes to games. Ref is close to blowing final whistle, team a point down, have ball 20 metres from goal but a packed defence in front of them, kick it backwards to the 2 point shooter in his range. He kicks it high and true from 'downtown' , hangs in the air, drops over the bar. They win by a point. Bit of an American ending but the auld blanket didn't win the game. Goals are great but there's something special about a great point kicked in Gaelic Football." Another variation I thought about was - have 3-on-3 (3 pairs, easier to monitor) between the 20 & 45 instead (no need for 33-metre line) and nobody but the goalkeeper behind the 20. Teams can flood the 20/45 zone once the ball enters.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2633 - 06/04/2024 23:02:18
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Would be easier to monitor Omahant alright, a linesman could just look across the pitch and judge in or out. But it's 33 metres from the end line, kicking points from in front of goal is 33 metres to the posts, left and right is more than 33 metres to posts and the closer to the sideline is further to kick. Like the basketball 3 point arc, Tirchonnail's arc would be same distance to kick for the posts all around. Could make for some interesting finishes to games. Ref is close to blowing final whistle, team a point down, have ball 20 metres from goal but a packed defence in front of them, kick it backwards to the 2 point shooter in his range. He kicks it high and true from 'downtown' , hangs in the air, drops over the bar. They win by a point. Bit of an American ending but the auld blanket didn't win the game. Goals are great but there's something special about a great point kicked in Gaelic Football." I'm not sure if keeping a uniform distance (arc) more than offsets the easier task of determining a player inside (rectangle). In rugby, try conversions are from varying angles and distances - like a rugby try/conversion, a gaelic team could make a "downtown" shot easier by also targetting 'in front of the post'.
Separately, which do you think is better:
Limit 4-on-4 (plus goalkeeper) inside the 45 before the ball enters; OR
Limit 3-on-3 between 20 & 45 before the ball enters, with no player limit inside the 20 (blanket ineffective, but could crowd the 20-45 zone when the ball enters).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2633 - 07/04/2024 14:45:42
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Replying To omahant: "I'm not sure if keeping a uniform distance (arc) more than offsets the easier task of determining a player inside (rectangle). In rugby, try conversions are from varying angles and distances - like a rugby try/conversion, a gaelic team could make a "downtown" shot easier by also targetting 'in front of the post'.
Separately, which do you think is better:
Limit 4-on-4 (plus goalkeeper) inside the 45 before the ball enters; OR
Limit 3-on-3 between 20 & 45 before the ball enters, with no player limit inside the 20 (blanket ineffective, but could crowd the 20-45 zone when the ball enters)." Can you pleeeease stop
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1451 - 07/04/2024 19:50:02
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Cool feel free to post the stats on that. Especially on league games." Attendances at the first day of Championship football was dismal… 7/8k at Monaghan v Cavan was pathetic.. this was always a 15/20k match in the Championship down the years… People are just fed up with what they are paying in to see… Feel free to post otherwise….
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1960 - 07/04/2024 22:35:55
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The National Basketball association in the US has led the way in removing cynical play from their sport.
I would be a fan of trying some of the following
1. Outlaw zonal defence (has to be man to man unless attacking team withdraws a forward).
2. Introduce a 45m arc and give 2 points for a long range point
3. Introduce a 45m free after 12 team fouls per half.
4. Introduce a 21m free for any deliberate cynical foul
And here is a few GAA specific ones
1. Marks only awarded if caught above the head while jumping (high catch only)
2. Ban two man tackle
3. Fist pass instead of handpass
4. No fisted scores unless it's a first time punch (no open palm)
5. All kick outs past the 45 (kick out spot to be brought forward on windy day at refs discretion)
A couple of unorthodox ones (to bring a bit of madness to a game):
1. Scores from drop kicks count as double.
2. Goalkeepers venturing outside their own 21m line are "fair game" and no free can be awarded for any foul on them while in possession.
3. Replace penalties with the forward in possession on 45m line running at the goalkeeper (positioned on 21). - like an ice hockey shootout.
4. Allow "tap tackle" - as per hook tackle in Hurling
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1140 - 09/04/2024 16:43:42
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Attendances at the first day of Championship football was dismal… 7/8k at Monaghan v Cavan was pathetic.. this was always a 15/20k match in the Championship down the years… People are just fed up with what they are paying in to see… Feel free to post otherwise…." And once again i repeat it isn't anything to do with the quality of football.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 09/04/2024 18:37:52
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Replying To TheFlaker: "And once again i repeat it isn't anything to do with the quality of football." Anecdotally I have heard plenty of people saying in recent years that they didn't go to/ didn't watch a football match I started talking to them about because they have lost interest in the game due to the way football is played now.
Paraphrasing them they usually say something like 'shir it's not football anymore' 'I'm fed up of looking at this handpassing over and back that you see now' or 'they've ruined football the way its played now'.
As I said earlier some relations who used to come down from Dublin to league games in Navan give the modern style of play as the reason they don't come down any more.
You have your head in the sand if you don't think the style of play nowadays is not a factor in a lot of people interest in the sport waning.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1363 - 10/04/2024 09:51:34
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Football Review Committee Survey:
link
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7373 - 10/04/2024 11:09:52
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Replying To bdbuddah: "Anecdotally I have heard plenty of people saying in recent years that they didn't go to/ didn't watch a football match I started talking to them about because they have lost interest in the game due to the way football is played now.
Paraphrasing them they usually say something like 'shir it's not football anymore' 'I'm fed up of looking at this handpassing over and back that you see now' or 'they've ruined football the way its played now'.
As I said earlier some relations who used to come down from Dublin to league games in Navan give the modern style of play as the reason they don't come down any more.
You have your head in the sand if you don't think the style of play nowadays is not a factor in a lot of people interest in the sport waning." Do we ban sideways or backwards passing?
Do we ban handpassing?
Do we restrict possession?
Do we allow the man to be tackled instead of or as well as the ball?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1451 - 10/04/2024 11:42:00
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Do we ban sideways or backwards passing?
Do we ban handpassing?
Do we restrict possession?
Do we allow the man to be tackled instead of or as well as the ball?" There are plenty of options for rule changes that could be trialled, I've replied twice to you about what what type of rule changes I could see being looked at.
Regarding the rule changes you mentioned (as in are they realistic options for rule trials)
1. Do we ban sideways or backwards passing?, in my opinion no.
2. Do we ban handpassing?, in my opinion no. Limiting handpassing to a certain number of consecutive handpasses would be a realistic trial.
3. Do we allow the man to be tackled instead of or as well as the ball? This is a realistic option for for a rule trial. This would obviously harm a teams ability to play a possession based game.
We have obvious issues with the game at present. There are a number of areas in terms on the rule book that we could use to move the game away from keep ball/ blanket tactics.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1363 - 10/04/2024 14:58:39
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Replying To bdbuddah: "Anecdotally I have heard plenty of people saying in recent years that they didn't go to/ didn't watch a football match I started talking to them about because they have lost interest in the game due to the way football is played now.
Paraphrasing them they usually say something like 'shir it's not football anymore' 'I'm fed up of looking at this handpassing over and back that you see now' or 'they've ruined football the way its played now'.
As I said earlier some relations who used to come down from Dublin to league games in Navan give the modern style of play as the reason they don't come down any more.
You have your head in the sand if you don't think the style of play nowadays is not a factor in a lot of people interest in the sport waning." I don't though. There are too many meaningless games in championship that families can't commit to. The price of tickets, travel and the games being televised has a far bigger impact then the style of football.
As for people saying "shir it's not football anymore" etc etc. I know people are saying this. People in my own family say it and people in my own club say it but it's gone to the point now where games are being ignored and not even watched. Scorelines are higher than ever and the quality is a lot better than it was 20 years ago.
Championship needs serious restructuring more than style of play.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 10/04/2024 15:39:02
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Replying To TheFlaker: "I don't though. There are too many meaningless games in championship that families can't commit to. The price of tickets, travel and the games being televised has a far bigger impact then the style of football.
As for people saying "shir it's not football anymore" etc etc. I know people are saying this. People in my own family say it and people in my own club say it but it's gone to the point now where games are being ignored and not even watched. Scorelines are higher than ever and the quality is a lot better than it was 20 years ago.
Championship needs serious restructuring more than style of play." Saying scorlines being higher is meaningless when in the same games with high scores have no bite to them and involve huge amounts of uncontested handpassing (as the original poster said the stats now for games show it is more like a handpass around rather than a proper match with the amount of uncontested hansldpassing)
To me you've delusional. You said the game is in a good state but also said the team you managed to county title had 2 decent games and the rest were blanket/ keep ball type games. This championship should involve teams of similar standard (all intermediate teams) so this shows the games has huge issues even when similar standard teams meet.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1363 - 10/04/2024 21:04:12
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