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I don't know, Ulster football has been played differently than that for a long time before a blanket was in vogue. The more kick heavy style that Meath and other Leinster counties would have played was far from universal and it's a beauty of Gaelic Games that there can be differing styles. I want football to become more exciting alright and there to be more pressure on the ball and contested possession again but in my opinion you want to go too far and have a very rigid idea of what football should be. I also really hate the it's called football line. There are multiple football codes in the world and only one of them heavily restricts the use of the hand. Handpassing is as much a part of the history of the game as kicking. When the game was codified initially it was influenced by a combination of soccer, rugby and also it's likely that Aussie rules influenced Gaelic more than the other way around. So this idea of it shouldn't have evolved a certain way I don't really buy into either. All of the above sports contain teams trying to exhibit control over possession and space and to dominate the opposition. It's how teams have an edge and advantage. Gaelic football has a few issues that are now coming to the fore and are apparent as a result of teams taking a more analytical approach. Possession is to easy to retain and backwards foot passing away from pressure contributes to this. The scoring zone is too small compared to the rest of the pitch. The midfield zone isn't very valuable to win possession back in. As an aside I don't like the mark rules either. Either of them in fact. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4245 - 11/03/2024 14:24:49 2530756 Link 0 |
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I talked about what I heard Joe Brolly saying a few years ago. A rule based on making players line up in their positions for kick outs the way they do for throw ins. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 11/03/2024 14:56:00 2530760 Link 1 |
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Not the stupidest idea he ever had - which would be difficult in fairness - but hardly conducive to speeding up the game. 5 minutes left, Team two points up has to get back into position to face a kick out :-) BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2590 - 11/03/2024 16:31:25 2530778 Link 0 |
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Thered be awful slow returns to pisitions alright. Will there be markings on the pitch for these positions? What if 2 half backs stand on the 45 and the other lad stands 5m nearer his goals? Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1451 - 11/03/2024 17:03:03 2530786 Link 0 |
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Hand passing was, for as long as I can remember, a big part of gaelic football. Some teams used handpassing more than others, when Mick O'Dwyre came to Kildare in the 1990s they tended to hand pass more than the Meath team of the time. Ulster teams also tended to handpass more than we did back then. But this comparsion is even a bit simplistic, kicking teams like Meath at times used handpassing moves through other teams (the most well known clip of Meath football ever is the goal we scored at the end of the fourth Dublin game in 1991 which was mainly a hand passing move) The handpassing style back then (1990's/ early 2000's) was for me was very different than today. Teams that were regarded as hand passing teams still mixed in relatively more kicks than today. The object of the handpassing was very different back then as for the most part these teams tried to hand pass through the opposition team and try to get at them. It was very different than today where the goal is primarily just to hold onto the ball. The reason for the difference is the blanket defense teams play today which just wasn't around years ago. I think getting teams to line up for kickouts probably would result in a more naturally flowing game than restricting teams hand passing the ball. For sure if a rule like this was brought in it initially cause problems but teams would after a time get used to it and being in position for the kickouts would just again become the norm in football again. Funny enough the mark rules also always feel wrong to me when I see them also, getting a free shot on goals even though no foul has taken place feels wrong. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 11/03/2024 17:10:51 2530787 Link 1 |
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Say they would face something like an indirect free kick from the half way line if they didn't ?. The idea of it is that practically it would be hard for say a corner forward to spend most of his time in the half back line and then be back in position for each kickout. If you couldn't be back in position in a reasonable time for the kickout your team would face a penalty. Obviously what I've said here is the bare bones of a idea, the intricacies of how a rule like this would play out and what the penalties would need to be worked through. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 11/03/2024 17:33:45 2530790 Link 1 |
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You wouldn't be talking about a spot marked on the pitch for each player, say a team would need to have 3 players in the full forward line (say inside the 20m line). To make a big impact referees wouldn't need to spot minor infringements of a rule like this, just to spot blatant infringements. If players weren't in position for kickouts in a reasonable time the team would be peanilised. This is what would make it practically difficult for forwards to be part of a blanket. You could also do a variation of something like this, maybe just confine a certain number of players to a certain area of the pitch for kickouts.. In a fluid game like Gaelic football if you want to confine players to an area of the pitch the time to do it is for kickouts rather than for when the game is in flow. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 11/03/2024 17:47:56 2530793 Link 1 |
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I don't remember that from Joe, but I recall his radical 'defensive zone', a larger than 'basketball-style' arc in front of goal, where defenders would be required to man mark before the ball enters. This inspired my no more than '4-on-4' inside the 'attacking 45' before the ball enters. I think my rectangular zone would be easier to police by the linesman than Joe's arc. What do you think of either? omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 11/03/2024 18:05:59 2530795 Link 0 |
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Its getting a free shot on goal for a positive part of game. A clear catch in air which rewards a skill in the game isnt wrong as a free results from a team fouling someone. A mark rewards a team for positive play while a free is penalising a team for negative play.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3514 - 11/03/2024 18:19:02 2530798 Link 0 |
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So by your rationale, the only thing that made Football compelling was a helter skelter nature to the game. No place for any kind of structures or tactics at all then? Yet you found 100 mins of top flight premier league soccer a very enjoyable watch by comparison. I think you've a problem with what we call football, my friend. Again, I'll say that football does not 'need saving' rather it needs tweaking from time to time, as with many codes, and we need to stop slating it when much of the criticism isn't valid. There weren't many blanket defences employed so far this year across the divisions and, for anyone that's played the game to a reasonable level, you're just not going to kick massive scores off a rain-sodden grass pitch in Ireland in Feb or March. Hard ground and hard footing and a dry ball (when we get it) make the shooters job that bit easier. We've a great sport, a great product, and the recent mantra of football needing to be saved is a nonsense. Watching almost €2 Billion worth of premier league players kicking a light balloon of a ball around a pint sized pitch compared to ours, and calling that more compelling entertainment than our code is a joke.
togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 911 - 11/03/2024 22:26:42 2530829 Link 0 |
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A lot of inaccuracies in the what you're saying. Some great attendances at Div 1 games this year and, as always, Championship attendances are the true yardstick as many families and also fair weather followers won't come out for the league. And you say 'The amount of scores in a game mean nothing' that it's more about exciting play. Well, maybe we can employ the 'exciting play' scoring method in lots of codes! What an inane, ill-founded argument. No point arguing any further points with you here. Again, football doesn't need saving - as is the whole theme of this thread - it just needs tweaks from time to time, as happens in soccer (offside tweaks most recently), as does rugby, as does American football etc etc. togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 911 - 11/03/2024 22:43:18 2530831 Link 0 |
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So not only have you your mind made up but you are willing to post any old nonsense to stir the pot. Huge drop off in attendances? Really? As far as I am aware attendances are increasing year on year. If Leinster wasn't such a procession they would be even bigger overall.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 12/03/2024 09:10:01 2530839 Link 0 |
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That was the intent but it has encouraged attacking teams and even instinctively attack minded players to automatically stick the paw up every catch. Noticeable that Dublin appear to have encouraged Con and even Paddy Small to take a chance rather than call the mark. Which makes them harder rather than easier to defend if backs have gotten used to and expecting forwards to call the mark? Aussie rules is a pretty dull game and mark is one of reasons. What possessed our ones to adopt it is anyone's guess. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2590 - 12/03/2024 09:11:21 2530840 Link 0 |
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It's 100% valid to say that the evolution of gaelic football where now a lot of games are dominated by phases of lateral uncontested hand passes over and back in front of a blanket of players like we have today is hugely negative. I say this as someone who has been going to and watching games for years (and a long time ago playing badly in matches). I've heard other people at the games saying the same thing to me unprompted. The way teams approached playing gaelic football 20 years ago, with for the most part 2 teams going at each other was great. Ya there was some bad games and the players weren't as fit or well prepared as today but the approach was engaging. Minor tactical tweeks were sometimes used back then (eg. roving full forward, 2 man full forward line) but it didn't really negativity impact the game like blankets do today. Sometimes people talk about the tactical aspects that have come into gaelic football as if it is a positive as if a manager getting most of their players to drop back and clog up their defensive area has required a huge amount to thought. I remember as a GAA supporter finding it demeaning a few years ago when I heard one of the guys on the off the ball radio show saying he welcomed that tactical play has come into gaelic football like it always had been in soccer. Tactical approaches suit sports like rugby and soccer, it just suits the type of sports they are but the 'tactical' approach of keeping most players back in a blanket has been very bad for our sport. I'm a GAA supporter, I go in person to a good lot of games but I won't apologise for enjoying watching other sports on TV. The soccer match other people were talking about was one of the best soccer matches I've watched in a while. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 12/03/2024 10:09:56 2530850 Link 1 |
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Don't know or care about soccer but the long sustained silences of the crowds at gaelic football matches tells its own story.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1451 - 12/03/2024 10:25:30 2530853 Link 2 |
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I think any rule that requires referees/ officials to monitor players positions continously while the game is in play will be difficult to implement. It would be hard for players while the game is in flow to be aware of exactly how many other players are in a specific area. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 12/03/2024 11:04:30 2530865 Link 0 |
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Mark isn't working. It was designed to encourage more long distance kicking. It isn't the case at all. It is being used for short distance kicks and has actually slowed down attacks and leading to less goal chances as players are stopping for a mark and not even looking for runners off the shoulder. Surely you have seen this yourself?
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 12/03/2024 11:13:21 2530872 Link 0 |
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If Refs implemented the 15 second rule as per the Book the delays at marks woukd soon end.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1451 - 12/03/2024 12:36:00 2530886 Link 0 |
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I'm not asking you to apologise for watching other codes! I'm not a zealot! I watch and attend plenty of rugby and soccer myself, and what I'm saying is that Gaelic Football is a great game, even when tactics are deployed, and the blanket defence is getting found out by the better, more innovative teams at club and county level via various countermeasures we even coach successfully at juvenile level including angled / strike runners coming at 90 or 45 degrees off your lateral passes to punch holes in the blanket; drawing the blanket defence out a little then giving quick ball to target forwards inside for a mark (not a fan personally of forward mark), shot or attempt at the back door cut for goal or point; accurate shooting from distance - the blanket only works so far up the field or it gets too loose, so at adult level players with a big rangy boot can pick off scores from distance or if it drops short - ff line players are there to bounce on the incoming or breaking ball. There are loads of other methods of breaking the blanket and we're seeing a lot less aimless lateral possession now and more a move to get runners at speed and quick accurate ball to tear the blanket apart.
togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 911 - 12/03/2024 12:45:29 2530891 Link 0 |
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Not sure it would to be honest. I would just scrap it
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 12/03/2024 13:05:20 2530895 Link 0 |