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Enough, with the nutters with Pots and Bowls. If the Provincial Championships stay(which I imagine will be for a number of years yet) then we had a perfect system last year with maybe a few seeding tweaks needed in the provinces. Two enjoyable races for both the Sam Maguire and Tailteain Cups. 3 of the 4 Group winners going to the All Ireland semi finals, the other losing a penalty shoot out.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 138 - 09/01/2024 15:21:01
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Any chance ye might come up with something simple chaps?" Fair and not. Qualifiers aren't complicated. Lose a provincial round, enter a qualifier round.
If All-Ireland club semi-finals have to be postponed due to adverse weather, removing the Allianz Football League link to the championship puts less pressure on club players being rushed back.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7888 - 09/01/2024 17:31:02
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Enough, with the nutters with Pots and Bowls. If the Provincial Championships stay(which I imagine will be for a number of years yet) then we had a perfect system last year with maybe a few seeding tweaks needed in the provinces. Two enjoyable races for both the Sam Maguire and Tailteain Cups. 3 of the 4 Group winners going to the All Ireland semi finals, the other losing a penalty shoot out." Just make it so the provincial champions only qualify automatically. Top seed in the groups plus a home game in the first round. The remaining teams should be seeded by their league performance. Also, just have two qualifying from the groups and go straight into a QF. I know the GAA were worried about dead rubbers but I don't it's a big deal.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 739 - 10/01/2024 12:29:43
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Replying To Whammo86: "The Provincials actually need to be abolished to be honest. It just feels so tough to justify 4 weekends of action in such a tight calendar with weaker teams only guaranteed one game.
The intercounty football season has too many potential weekends of action. Up to 19 plus rest weeks. I just don't think that fits into a healthy schedule to facilitate good quality club competition. We are seeing that in some of the discussions around finishing the season a week later to allow a rest between league and Provincials. We've players talking about the intensity of the schedule. I just don't think we can have all of an NFL with league finals, provincial championships, group stage championships and 4 rounds of knockout. Something has to give here somewhere." 52 years waiting is it?
Whestofthewest (Clare) - Posts: 152 - 10/01/2024 13:06:25
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Just make it so the provincial champions only qualify automatically. Top seed in the groups plus a home game in the first round. The remaining teams should be seeded by their league performance. Also, just have two qualifying from the groups and go straight into a QF. I know the GAA were worried about dead rubbers but I don't it's a big deal." AI and Tailteann Champions from previous year plus the Provincial Champions, then go down the League till you get 16.
Any Tailteann Counties that reached a Provincial Final could be top seeds.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1450 - 10/01/2024 13:08:17
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Replying To Whestofthewest: "52 years waiting is it?" ?
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 10/01/2024 14:50:28
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Something I'd think would be good if the season was just sorted of flipped from how it previously looked.
You'd have a cup competition at the start of the season in February and March that'd look like the old school straight knockout All Ireland. 4 Provincial champions to New Ireland cup semifinals.
The New Ireland cup would be the new secondary competition and be separate from the All Ireland.
Teams knocked out of their Province go into a competition that looks like the old qualifiers except that the old qualifier round 4 would be the quarter finals for this new competition.
Teams knocked out in the first 2 rounds of the qualifiers style competition could have an option of entering a Tommy Murphy Cup type competition to help prepare for the All Ireland.
Teams would be getting around 3 to 6 games across these competitions as their preparatory competitions with Croke Park final places up for grabs.
The All Ireland itself would be 2 tiers each with 2 groups of 8 type competition and would be a chance to get more games between teams around the same level in the primary competition and in the best months for games.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 10/01/2024 17:26:17
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The GAA seemed to have good intentions in finishing the club championships in the calendar year but it has proved to be elusive. It's harsh on intercounty players getting to All-Ireland club finals to have to rush back for the Allianz Football League. While the GAA and GPA had good intentions in linking the Allianz Football League to the All-Ireland Championship, it is a decision that might have to be reversed.
Tailteann winner, Connacht finalists, Munster finalists, Leinster semi-finalists and Ulster semi-finalists should qualify for the All-Ireland group stage. 13 teams. (12 teams if Tailteann winner also qualifies through their provincial championship.)
New York traditionally didn't enter qualifiers. The remaining 19 counties (20 if Tailteann winner also qualifies through their provincial championship.) exiting the provincial championships in Round 1 and Round 2 should have 3 qualifying rounds to make the All-Ireland.
Provincial Round 1:
Connacht and Munster quarter-finals. Leinster and Ulster preliminary round.
Provincial Round 2:
Connacht and Munster semi-finals. Leinster and Ulster quarter-finals.
After Provincial Round 2, it will be known if the Tailteann winner has made Provincial Round 3 or a Provincial final. This will determine if Qualifier counties are playing for 3 or 4 out of 16 All-Ireland places. 3 qualifying rounds are enough for 19 or 20 Qualifier counties to qualify for 3 or 4 places.
Week -1: Allianz Football League finals.
Break for hurling! Hurling league finals.
Week 1: Provincial Round 1
Week 2: Provincial Round 2
Week 3: Leinster and Ulster Semi-finals. All-Ireland Qualifier Round 1.
Week 4: Connacht and Munster finals. All-Ireland Qualifier Round 2.
Week 5: Leinster and Ulster finals.
Week 6: All-Ireland Qualifier Round 3.
Week 7: All-Ireland and Tailteann group stage Round 1.
Week 8: All-Ireland and Tailteann group stage Round 2.
Break for hurling! Provincial hurling finals.
Week 9: All-Ireland and Tailteann group stage Round 3.
Week 10: All-Ireland and Tailteann Preliminary Quarter-finals.
Week 11: All-Ireland and Tailteann Quarter-finals.
Break for hurling semi-finals.
Week 12: All-Ireland and Tailteann Semi-finals. (Double headers on Saturday and Sunday.)
Break for hurling final.
Week 13: All-Ireland and Tailteann Finals.
Finals Weekend:
Saturday: All-Ireland Junior Football Championship Final and Tailteann Cup Final.
Sunday: All-Ireland Senior Football Championship Final.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7888 - 11/01/2024 17:45:15
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Replying To legendzxix: "The GAA seemed to have good intentions in finishing the club championships in the calendar year but it has proved to be elusive. It's harsh on intercounty players getting to All-Ireland club finals to have to rush back for the Allianz Football League. While the GAA and GPA had good intentions in linking the Allianz Football League to the All-Ireland Championship, it is a decision that might have to be reversed.
Tailteann winner, Connacht finalists, Munster finalists, Leinster semi-finalists and Ulster semi-finalists should qualify for the All-Ireland group stage. 13 teams. (12 teams if Tailteann winner also qualifies through their provincial championship.)
New York traditionally didn't enter qualifiers. The remaining 19 counties (20 if Tailteann winner also qualifies through their provincial championship.) exiting the provincial championships in Round 1 and Round 2 should have 3 qualifying rounds to make the All-Ireland.
Provincial Round 1:
Connacht and Munster quarter-finals. Leinster and Ulster preliminary round.
Provincial Round 2:
Connacht and Munster semi-finals. Leinster and Ulster quarter-finals.
After Provincial Round 2, it will be known if the Tailteann winner has made Provincial Round 3 or a Provincial final. This will determine if Qualifier counties are playing for 3 or 4 out of 16 All-Ireland places. 3 qualifying rounds are enough for 19 or 20 Qualifier counties to qualify for 3 or 4 places.
Week -1: Allianz Football League finals.
Break for hurling! Hurling league finals.
Week 1: Provincial Round 1
Week 2: Provincial Round 2
Week 3: Leinster and Ulster Semi-finals. All-Ireland Qualifier Round 1.
Week 4: Connacht and Munster finals. All-Ireland Qualifier Round 2.
Week 5: Leinster and Ulster finals.
Week 6: All-Ireland Qualifier Round 3.
Week 7: All-Ireland and Tailteann group stage Round 1.
Week 8: All-Ireland and Tailteann group stage Round 2.
Break for hurling! Provincial hurling finals.
Week 9: All-Ireland and Tailteann group stage Round 3.
Week 10: All-Ireland and Tailteann Preliminary Quarter-finals.
Week 11: All-Ireland and Tailteann Quarter-finals.
Break for hurling semi-finals.
Week 12: All-Ireland and Tailteann Semi-finals. (Double headers on Saturday and Sunday.)
Break for hurling final.
Week 13: All-Ireland and Tailteann Finals.
Finals Weekend:
Saturday: All-Ireland Junior Football Championship Final and Tailteann Cup Final.
Sunday: All-Ireland Senior Football Championship Final." I generally like it.
A couple of questions -
1) Given the 13 weeks, would the preceding league be a 'still too long' 7 games plus Finals? - I think smaller league groups then would be better - 3 divs, 10-10-12, 2 groups of 5 or 6 in each div.
2) Are the 'hurling breaks' on weeks -1, 8, 11 & 12, OR
0, 8.5, 11.5, 12.5? - Either way, an off week is needed between AI SHC SFs & Final.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 11/01/2024 21:53:19
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Just make it so the provincial champions only qualify automatically. Top seed in the groups plus a home game in the first round. The remaining teams should be seeded by their league performance. Also, just have two qualifying from the groups and go straight into a QF. I know the GAA were worried about dead rubbers but I don't it's a big deal." There is a middle ground that would better accommodate both "go straight into a QF" and limiting "dead rubbers" risk - how about after 4 groups of 4, the 4 group winners and 4 'other best records' advance to QFs. This way, 3rd-placed teams in the groups have a shot at displacing a 2nd-placed team in another group.
My personal preference would be to keep the Prelim QFs, with 4 group winners and 7 'other best records' advancing - best 5 to QFs (not necessarily including all group winners), worst 5 are out and the middle 6 to Prelim QFs.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 11/01/2024 22:57:59
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Replying To Whammo86: "The Provincials actually need to be abolished to be honest. It just feels so tough to justify 4 weekends of action in such a tight calendar with weaker teams only guaranteed one game.
The intercounty football season has too many potential weekends of action. Up to 19 plus rest weeks. I just don't think that fits into a healthy schedule to facilitate good quality club competition. We are seeing that in some of the discussions around finishing the season a week later to allow a rest between league and Provincials. We've players talking about the intensity of the schedule. I just don't think we can have all of an NFL with league finals, provincial championships, group stage championships and 4 rounds of knockout. Something has to give here somewhere." Well, the one-tie Calcutta Cup match is a subset of the six-ties Triple Crown, which in turn, is a subset of the 15-ties Six Nations Rugby Championship.
What's my point? To lessen the GAA game count you mention, why not double- or triple-count Provincial Championship ties as League and/or AIC group stage/regular season as well? This way, if one thinks the Ulster Championship has value, he can - and if someone else thinks the Leinster Championship ties have no value, he can as well - all such ties, regardless, are counting towards the bigger prize.
In the US last year, the NBA created the "NBA Cup", a new tournament and subset of the regular season schedule. It remains to be seen if it will catch on.
Let's have our GAA cake and eat it too !
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 11/01/2024 23:32:12
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Replying To omahant: "Well, the one-tie Calcutta Cup match is a subset of the six-ties Triple Crown, which in turn, is a subset of the 15-ties Six Nations Rugby Championship.
What's my point? To lessen the GAA game count you mention, why not double- or triple-count Provincial Championship ties as League and/or AIC group stage/regular season as well? This way, if one thinks the Ulster Championship has value, he can - and if someone else thinks the Leinster Championship ties have no value, he can as well - all such ties, regardless, are counting towards the bigger prize.
In the US last year, the NBA created the "NBA Cup", a new tournament and subset of the regular season schedule. It remains to be seen if it will catch on.
Let's have our GAA cake and eat it too !" Spot on. Inter county games appear to be an inconvenience to some.
We have best and by far the most popularly attended sports in country and you would think from some that they are an embarrassment that ought to be kept quiet and run off in a few weeks so that they don't interfere with the concert schedule.
Which they can sell to the members on the basis that national attention will shift to the Junior F relegation play offs.
Dia linn ....
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2589 - 12/01/2024 09:58:44
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Replying To omahant: "I generally like it.
A couple of questions -
1) Given the 13 weeks, would the preceding league be a 'still too long' 7 games plus Finals? - I think smaller league groups then would be better - 3 divs, 10-10-12, 2 groups of 5 or 6 in each div.
2) Are the 'hurling breaks' on weeks -1, 8, 11 & 12, OR
0, 8.5, 11.5, 12.5? - Either way, an off week is needed between AI SHC SFs & Final." 1) The current Allianz Football League fixture scheduling can remain.
2) The breaks are rest weekends for football. I just gave an example of some hurling that would be taking place.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7888 - 12/01/2024 11:37:54
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Replying To legendzxix: "1) The current Allianz Football League fixture scheduling can remain.
2) The breaks are rest weekends for football. I just gave an example of some hurling that would be taking place." I don't like the idea that the Provincials become more important for All Ireland qualification.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 12/01/2024 14:40:22
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Replying To Whammo86: "I don't like the idea that the Provincials become more important for All Ireland qualification." If you had 4 competitive Provincial football Championships maybe....but we haven't.
AI qualification should be on merit not Geography.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1450 - 12/01/2024 16:51:59
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Replying To Whammo86: "I don't like the idea that the Provincials become more important for All Ireland qualification." Connacht and Munster finalists qualify for the All-Ireland as Provincial Round 2 winners. There is an argument that Leinster and Ulster semi-finalists are also Provincial Round 2 winners. While there is an uneven number of counties in provinces, granting the 12 Provincial Round 2 winners an All-Ireland place will have some fairness.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7888 - 12/01/2024 17:11:32
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Replying To legendzxix: "Connacht and Munster finalists qualify for the All-Ireland as Provincial Round 2 winners. There is an argument that Leinster and Ulster semi-finalists are also Provincial Round 2 winners. While there is an uneven number of counties in provinces, granting the 12 Provincial Round 2 winners an All-Ireland place will have some fairness." I agree - and the Provs are only used to determine 12 of the starting Sam 16 field, played on a 'national' basis.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 13/01/2024 00:18:11
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "If you had 4 competitive Provincial football Championships maybe....but we haven't.
AI qualification should be on merit not Geography." How about the 'guest' route? The best 4 in each Prov go head-to-head - 8 winners advance to their 'own' Prov SFs, 8 losers as 'guests' in neighboring Prov QFs.
The other weaker 16 play off for the remaining 8 QF berths in their 'own' Provs. Strength would be dispersed - strong Ulster teams in Connacht and Leinster - maybe Roscommon in Munster etc.
In soccer, the South Amer Copa America and the North/Central Amer Gold Cup have 'guest teams' from the other region on an ongoing basis - are these tournaments better or worse with their inclusion?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 13/01/2024 00:33:27
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Replying To legendzxix: "Connacht and Munster finalists qualify for the All-Ireland as Provincial Round 2 winners. There is an argument that Leinster and Ulster semi-finalists are also Provincial Round 2 winners. While there is an uneven number of counties in provinces, granting the 12 Provincial Round 2 winners an All-Ireland place will have some fairness." The issue isn't just about differing numbers, it's also about differing quality.
I don't really think it essential but I can get behind Provincial champions being included in the All Ireland as a nod to tradition and to retain some linkage. Outside of that I don't think they should play much part. I really hate the situation that a team can miss out on an All Ireland spot because of results in a Provincial championship that they weren't competing in.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 13/01/2024 04:05:52
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Replying To omahant: "How about the 'guest' route? The best 4 in each Prov go head-to-head - 8 winners advance to their 'own' Prov SFs, 8 losers as 'guests' in neighboring Prov QFs.
The other weaker 16 play off for the remaining 8 QF berths in their 'own' Provs. Strength would be dispersed - strong Ulster teams in Connacht and Leinster - maybe Roscommon in Munster etc.
In soccer, the South Amer Copa America and the North/Central Amer Gold Cup have 'guest teams' from the other region on an ongoing basis - are these tournaments better or worse with their inclusion?" I think they are a part of their own histories and aren't really a good answer to the problem in the GAA.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 13/01/2024 10:57:45
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