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The GAA probably thinks the AIC group phase was a success and will probably retain 12 of 16 advancing to the KO stage in each tier.
One change that may occur is that losing Provincial Finalists could be seeded based on their league finish (so a Sligo would be a 4th seed).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2644 - 03/08/2023 01:48:57
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Replying To Lockjaw: "A long way away yet, and playing devil's advocate here. But it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts now, and revisit again this time next year!
For what it's worth, a few thoughts of mine.
Dublin - the key thing will be how many (if any) of their stalwarts decide to step away. Farrell also appeared to indicate that a couple of other, perhaps more surprising, key men might also take a break from it. Say for instance Cluxton, Fitzsimons, McCarthy, Rock and Kilkenny decided to step away, it would leave a massive gap. Will the supporting cast be able to step up in such a scenario? I'm not so sure.
Kerry - they'll be licking their wounds all winter and I'd imagine will be raring to go in 2024. They simply have to unearth another forward to take some of the burden off David Clifford. Geaney did ok on Sunday last, but his best days are behind him. Tony Brosnan's health is obviously the most important thing. Is there another forward to burst on to the scene?
Derry - ditto. I think they're lacking another top class inside forward to take the pressure off McGuigan. They'll have learned an awful lot from their defeat to Kerry. Need more from Glass and to use the league to blood youngsters from their successful underage teams. McKaigue, Rogers aren't getting younger.
Galway - a frustrating 2023. Think they need a fully tuned-in Shane Walsh and hope the Comer can stay injury free. They have a really good squad and have the most scope for improvement in 2024 in my opinion. If PJ can keep the squad together they'll be a force no doubt.
Mayo - a promising start ultimately fizzled out very disappointingly. Can they time their run better next year? Will still be a contender, but familiar doubts remain on the biggest days.
Tyrone - perhaps a change of management is needed to rejeuvenate them? Lime Dublin might we see a few of their older men step away? Could be a transitional season for them.
Monaghan - a very good debut campaign for Vonny Corey. They put other counties to shame. Hopefully McManus will give it another year.
Cork - a promising year for them. They should be looking to get out of Division 2 and build on their progress. A case of watch this space. Always plenty of good footballers in Cork.
Donegal - who knows? There is a lot of talent available but can we get the right people and structures in place to maximise our potential? McCole is growing into an outstanding full back. Gallen showed glimpses of his undoubted potential. We'll definitely need the likes of Ryan McHugh, the O'Donnells and Mogan back in the squad." All Ireland Champions, Dublin.
My gut feeling tells me 2024 will see Dublin and Kerry locking horns again and Dublin will come out victorious again, in fact even if 4 or 5 of their current squad retires, they will still push on for 5 in a row, their preparatory work, smart football and match preparation is unequalled.
All Ireland finalists Kerry.
Even if Jack O' Connor is offered an extension to his existing term, and irrespective of who the Kerry manager is Dublin will still get their 2 in a row and continue their push for 5.
In descending order, Derry, Galway, Monaghan, Mayo, Tyrone, Cork. Will come away with moral victories and some glorious defeats, etc, etc, etc,
The remaining Sam Maguire and the T.C. counties will continue to dream on until the suits in Croke Park shouts stop and say enough is enough as the game has fallen apart so workable changes has to be made to include all 32 counties, in particular the weakest of the weak.
Currently there are about 6 counties with no hope of winning the TC, the rest have little hope. There are about 4 counties capable of reaching the All-Ireland final but for the next few years, Dublin will come away victorious.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2913 - 03/08/2023 12:31:18
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Replying To supersub15: "All Ireland Champions, Dublin.
My gut feeling tells me 2024 will see Dublin and Kerry locking horns again and Dublin will come out victorious again, in fact even if 4 or 5 of their current squad retires, they will still push on for 5 in a row, their preparatory work, smart football and match preparation is unequalled.
All Ireland finalists Kerry.
Even if Jack O' Connor is offered an extension to his existing term, and irrespective of who the Kerry manager is Dublin will still get their 2 in a row and continue their push for 5.
In descending order, Derry, Galway, Monaghan, Mayo, Tyrone, Cork. Will come away with moral victories and some glorious defeats, etc, etc, etc,
The remaining Sam Maguire and the T.C. counties will continue to dream on until the suits in Croke Park shouts stop and say enough is enough as the game has fallen apart so workable changes has to be made to include all 32 counties, in particular the weakest of the weak.
Currently there are about 6 counties with no hope of winning the TC, the rest have little hope. There are about 4 counties capable of reaching the All-Ireland final but for the next few years, Dublin will come away victorious." "Workable changes has(sic) to be made to include all Countues, in particular the weakest of the weak"
Such as?
A handicap system?
A Cup for everyone?
Shields, Plates etc till everyone wins something?
Player transfer system.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1463 - 03/08/2023 13:09:58
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I'm not so sure about Dublin. If Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimons and a few others stepped away for good it would leave a massive gap in experience, leadership and standards. No matter how good any underage players are coming up to replace them, the relentless standards and voices of the above-mentioned lads will be near impossible to replicate.
It's a wait and see for me where Dublin are concerned. If they keep the band together for one more year then they're certainly favourites. But lets just see how it all pans out over the winter months.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9189 - 03/08/2023 13:44:55
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I'm not so sure about Dublin. If Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimons and a few others stepped away for good it would leave a massive gap in experience, leadership and standards. No matter how good any underage players are coming up to replace them, the relentless standards and voices of the above-mentioned lads will be near impossible to replicate.
It's a wait and see for me where Dublin are concerned. If they keep the band together for one more year then they're certainly favourites. But lets just see how it all pans out over the winter months." I omitted to say I am not belittling or being disrespectful to other counties, but this is the way I see it, I followed the Dub's very closely this year and I just could not see them being beaten, that included Kildare pushing them to a couple of points but no better, even the draw match with Roscommon alas a false dawn for Ros
I will put it to you that it was more difficult for Dublin to come away with a victory this year because of the Kildare, Roscommon, Monaghan results etc, along with that bringing back 41 year old Cluxton against the reigning all Ireland champions Kerry who were carrying the favourite's tag however small.
If Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimon and a couple of others were to pack it in with respect to them they are not irreplaceable as life goes on, I would put it to you that they would be replaced with success in a couple of months.
I believe that the Dub's will be unbeatable for at least 3 or 4 years, which in turn will leave the weaker counties getting weaker.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2913 - 03/08/2023 14:24:54
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Replying To supersub15: "I omitted to say I am not belittling or being disrespectful to other counties, but this is the way I see it, I followed the Dub's very closely this year and I just could not see them being beaten, that included Kildare pushing them to a couple of points but no better, even the draw match with Roscommon alas a false dawn for Ros
I will put it to you that it was more difficult for Dublin to come away with a victory this year because of the Kildare, Roscommon, Monaghan results etc, along with that bringing back 41 year old Cluxton against the reigning all Ireland champions Kerry who were carrying the favourite's tag however small.
If Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimon and a couple of others were to pack it in with respect to them they are not irreplaceable as life goes on, I would put it to you that they would be replaced with success in a couple of months.
I believe that the Dub's will be unbeatable for at least 3 or 4 years, which in turn will leave the weaker counties getting weaker." Fair enough that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I would respectfully disagree however. It's an intangible thing, but of utmost importance in every successful team, and that is empowered players driving high standards and not accepting anything less. Those senior players I mentioned would have that in buckets. If all of them leave at once it's nigh on impossible to replace. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting that Dublin will just fall away into insignificance. They'll simply always be a top 4 team. But the idea that they're unbeatable in the short term isn't one I'd subscribe to.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9189 - 03/08/2023 15:46:46
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: ""Workable changes has(sic) to be made to include all Countues, in particular the weakest of the weak"
Such as?
A handicap system?
A Cup for everyone?
Shields, Plates etc till everyone wins something?
Player transfer system." A combined League-Championship structure that could work:
- Three tiers 1 to 3, of 10, 12 & 10 teams, respectively.
- Each tier drawn/split to two equal rank groups A & B.
- Each team plays a 10-match regular season.
- Schedule consists of:
"A Stream" (most games are crossover/inter-tier)
1A v 1A (4 games per 1A team)
1A v 2A (6 more games per 1A team, 10 total)
2A v 3A (5 more games per 2A team, 10 total)
3A v 3A (4 more games per 3A team, 10 total)
"B Stream" (most games are crossover/inter-tier)
1B v 1B (4 games per 1B team)
1B v 2B (6 more games per 1B team, 10 total)
2B v 3B (5 more games per 2B team, 10 total)
3B v 3B (4 more games per 3B team, 10 total)
- Top 3 in each of the six groups advance to a 'tier specific' 6-team KO (18 teams total).
- Tier SFs are 'A 1st' v QF Winner (B 2nd or A 3rd) and
'B 1st' v QF Winner (A 2nd or B 3rd).
- Tier 2 & 3 Finalists go up, with the bottom team in Groups 1A, 1B, 2A & 2B relegated.
Provincial Championships KO played early and separately (Champs added to the Tier 1 KO, if not qualified via the League).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2644 - 03/08/2023 19:16:42
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Replying To omahant: "A combined League-Championship structure that could work:
- Three tiers 1 to 3, of 10, 12 & 10 teams, respectively.
- Each tier drawn/split to two equal rank groups A & B.
- Each team plays a 10-match regular season.
- Schedule consists of:
"A Stream" (most games are crossover/inter-tier)
1A v 1A (4 games per 1A team)
1A v 2A (6 more games per 1A team, 10 total)
2A v 3A (5 more games per 2A team, 10 total)
3A v 3A (4 more games per 3A team, 10 total)
"B Stream" (most games are crossover/inter-tier)
1B v 1B (4 games per 1B team)
1B v 2B (6 more games per 1B team, 10 total)
2B v 3B (5 more games per 2B team, 10 total)
3B v 3B (4 more games per 3B team, 10 total)
- Top 3 in each of the six groups advance to a 'tier specific' 6-team KO (18 teams total).
- Tier SFs are 'A 1st' v QF Winner (B 2nd or A 3rd) and
'B 1st' v QF Winner (A 2nd or B 3rd).
- Tier 2 & 3 Finalists go up, with the bottom team in Groups 1A, 1B, 2A & 2B relegated.
Provincial Championships KO played early and separately (Champs added to the Tier 1 KO, if not qualified via the League)." Ahhh stop, me head is reeling.....
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1463 - 04/08/2023 10:49:04
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Ahhh stop, me head is reeling....." He's at it the whole time.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12224 - 04/08/2023 13:00:50
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Replying To Viking66: "He's at it the whole time." You're not wrong L O L
Rebel2020 (Cork) - Posts: 75 - 04/08/2023 13:19:14
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yeah you make a good point. I think Mayo in particular were caught out this year. They had a very good league and I remember McStay saying in an interview that they gave the players a few weeks off before concentrating on Connacht. But they crashed out of that to your good selves, then had to regroup again for the AI group stage. A great win down in Killarney was followed by a laboured win over Louth and a surprise defeat to Cork. The latter result meant they then had a do-or-die match against Galway in Salthill, which to their credit they dug out a win.
But a week later they had to go to the well again, this time against Dublin. And well, that was that.
Roscommon also found themselves in the prelim quarter final despite initially putting themselves in the driving seat for a top 2 group finish after their draw with Dublin. For me there is very little to choose between a good clutch of teams at present....I would categorise them as below (C)...
A- Dublin, Kerry
B - Derry, Galway, Mayo and just about Tyrone.
C - Monaghan, Roscommon, Armagh, Kildare, Cork, Donegal and Meath possibly coming into the mix." The time off Mayo took was after losing to Roscommon as they had 6 or 7 weeks to prepare that gap shows the Connacht championship started too soon. Mayo was odds on to top their group going into the final quarter of their 3rd group game against Cork but from 6 points up some how lost. Roscommon would have topped their group had they beaten Dublin (had a free to win it with the last play of the game)
I think on the day there is little or nothing between Mayo,Galway,Tyrone and the group C teams you named.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3362 - 04/08/2023 15:35:25
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Something more palatable for this audience:
- Keep AIC 4 groups of 4.
- Prov Champs seeded 1, but losing Finalists seeded on league.
- 'Best record' 11 of 16 advance to KO (best 5, not necessarily group winners, get byes).
- First round ties are 6v11, 7v10 & 8v9, with reseeding in QFs & SFs.
This strikes a better balance between having jeopardy, limiting dead rubber risk and rewarding a higher seeding.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2644 - 04/08/2023 15:54:32
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Fair enough that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I would respectfully disagree however. It's an intangible thing, but of utmost importance in every successful team, and that is empowered players driving high standards and not accepting anything less. Those senior players I mentioned would have that in buckets. If all of them leave at once it's nigh on impossible to replace. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting that Dublin will just fall away into insignificance. They'll simply always be a top 4 team. But the idea that they're unbeatable in the short term isn't one I'd subscribe to." I agree with Lockjaw. Dublin are capable of winning next year and year after but so are a few others. Dublin are indeed beatable. Now they will always be contenders and even in 7 or 8 years time they will still be contenders. People keep thinking Dublin are an old team. Indeed they are not. In fact besides Cluxton Fitz and Mccarthy they are young enough. People think this Dub team on the road for 12 years. Most of the team have been replaced bit by bit. Look at this team besides Cluxton. 2.Philly McMahon 3.Rory Ó Carroll 4.Cian O Sullivan 5.Johnny Cooper 6.Ger Brennan 7.Kevin Nolan. 8.Denis Bastick. 9.MD McAuley 10.Paul Flynn 11.Kevin McManmon 12.Diarmuid Connolly 13.Alan Brogan 14.Paddy Andrews 15. Bernard Brogan Subs Darren Daly Eric Lowndes Eoghan Ó Gara Barry Cahill. All gone but replaced bit by bit. Dublin will always be strong. They always were even during their 16 year famine.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3687 - 04/08/2023 17:21:37
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Fair enough that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I would respectfully disagree however. It's an intangible thing, but of utmost importance in every successful team, and that is empowered players driving high standards and not accepting anything less. Those senior players I mentioned would have that in buckets. If all of them leave at once it's nigh on impossible to replace. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting that Dublin will just fall away into insignificance. They'll simply always be a top 4 team. But the idea that they're unbeatable in the short term isn't one I'd subscribe to." You are correct it is only my opinion, and my crystal ball is no clearer than anyone else's and probably I should let it take its course, the wife and a couple of others say I take it a bit too serious and that's coming from someone who is from a div. 4 county herself and they are probably right, keep up the good work and well done on your Championship predictions.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2913 - 04/08/2023 18:15:30
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Replying To Rebel2020: "You're not wrong L O L" Any time someone mentions championship structures you get a new structure from omahant.
The bedroom wall must be riddled with whiteboards
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1140 - 05/08/2023 08:32:20
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Any time someone mentions championship structures you get a new structure from omahant.
The bedroom wall must be riddled with whiteboards" Don't forget the extension that was badly needed.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2644 - 06/08/2023 17:57:05
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Replying To Lockjaw: "A long way away yet, and playing devil's advocate here. But it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts now, and revisit again this time next year!
For what it's worth, a few thoughts of mine.
Dublin - the key thing will be how many (if any) of their stalwarts decide to step away. Farrell also appeared to indicate that a couple of other, perhaps more surprising, key men might also take a break from it. Say for instance Cluxton, Fitzsimons, McCarthy, Rock and Kilkenny decided to step away, it would leave a massive gap. Will the supporting cast be able to step up in such a scenario? I'm not so sure.
Kerry - they'll be licking their wounds all winter and I'd imagine will be raring to go in 2024. They simply have to unearth another forward to take some of the burden off David Clifford. Geaney did ok on Sunday last, but his best days are behind him. Tony Brosnan's health is obviously the most important thing. Is there another forward to burst on to the scene?
Derry - ditto. I think they're lacking another top class inside forward to take the pressure off McGuigan. They'll have learned an awful lot from their defeat to Kerry. Need more from Glass and to use the league to blood youngsters from their successful underage teams. McKaigue, Rogers aren't getting younger.
Galway - a frustrating 2023. Think they need a fully tuned-in Shane Walsh and hope the Comer can stay injury free. They have a really good squad and have the most scope for improvement in 2024 in my opinion. If PJ can keep the squad together they'll be a force no doubt.
Mayo - a promising start ultimately fizzled out very disappointingly. Can they time their run better next year? Will still be a contender, but familiar doubts remain on the biggest days.
Tyrone - perhaps a change of management is needed to rejeuvenate them? Lime Dublin might we see a few of their older men step away? Could be a transitional season for them.
Monaghan - a very good debut campaign for Vonny Corey. They put other counties to shame. Hopefully McManus will give it another year.
Cork - a promising year for them. They should be looking to get out of Division 2 and build on their progress. A case of watch this space. Always plenty of good footballers in Cork.
Donegal - who knows? There is a lot of talent available but can we get the right people and structures in place to maximise our potential? McCole is growing into an outstanding full back. Gallen showed glimpses of his undoubted potential. We'll definitely need the likes of Ryan McHugh, the O'Donnells and Mogan back in the squad." Jaysus early thread Lockjaw mo chara, I'm barely sober after last week!
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13725 - 07/08/2023 19:46:49
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Replying To MesAmis: "Jaysus early thread Lockjaw mo chara, I'm barely sober after last week!" The early bird gets the worm :P
Seems to be a bit of substance behind the rumours that Jim McGuinness could return as Donegal manager for 2024. God knows we could do with a lift. He might not have the same calibre of players available to him this time around but he would get us going a lot better than we were in 2023. We live in hope!
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9189 - 08/08/2023 14:56:15
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Replying To Lockjaw: "The early bird gets the worm :P
Seems to be a bit of substance behind the rumours that Jim McGuinness could return as Donegal manager for 2024. God knows we could do with a lift. He might not have the same calibre of players available to him this time around but he would get us going a lot better than we were in 2023. We live in hope!" Would he be welcomed back by all Lock? Some might view it as a regressive step if he goes with the ultra defensive strategy. As you say yourself he had an excellent calibre of player available to him the last time, McFadden, Murphy, Cassidy, NcHugh, McGlynn for starters, but IMO didn't trust their ability to play open football and almost turned some fantastic footballers into marathon runners. They held Dublin scoreless for 60m in 2011 but Jimmy's tactics that day will be remembered for all the wrong reasons. Will he be welcomed back by all.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4703 - 09/08/2023 10:23:36
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Replying To Joxer: "Would he be welcomed back by all Lock? Some might view it as a regressive step if he goes with the ultra defensive strategy. As you say yourself he had an excellent calibre of player available to him the last time, McFadden, Murphy, Cassidy, NcHugh, McGlynn for starters, but IMO didn't trust their ability to play open football and almost turned some fantastic footballers into marathon runners. They held Dublin scoreless for 60m in 2011 but Jimmy's tactics that day will be remembered for all the wrong reasons. Will he be welcomed back by all." I think he'd be welcomed back by the vast majority of people in Donegal, whatever about the rest of the country's thoughts on it. Jim gets a lot of unfair criticism in my opinion. Yes in year one it was all about defence and counter-attacking at pace, and you're right - the 2011 semi final was an absolute stinker. But people forget how he was able to tweak the system to great effect in 2012, and we ultimately won the big one. We probably should also have won in 2014, having handed Jim Gavin his only Championship defeat along the way.
I hear people blaming McGuinness all the time as well for the defensive football many teams adopted. This for me is complete and utter bull. Noone had a gun to any coach or manager's head during this time forcing them to adopt defensive tactics. It's a lazy cop out for various coaches who hadn't the originality or gumption to form their own ideas. Jim is far from stupid. This idea that he'd come back in and try to rehash an old system that worked over a decade ago is foolish. I'm sure he has been analysing the current lay of the land in terms of tactics, and also what personnel is available in Donegal.
But in terms of Donegal football, the biggest thing that Jim would bring back is belief. We've always had decent footballers in this county but perhaps lacked a ruthless cutting edge against the very best. Jim changed all that. We became fitter, faster, stronger and bolder. No longer willing to take a step back against the best teams. Other teams hated us for it but we loved it. Even if we don't get back to winning an AI title, one thing is for sure we won't die wondering under Jim.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9189 - 09/08/2023 11:22:04
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