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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Gang of 5 non final to win poty? You are wrong Joxer.Brogan is the only player in football to win poty that did nt play in final. Kevin Heffernan also got it (eventhough he did nt play and was manager)." On average only 5 players who didn't play in the final win an all-stars Mick. Brogan was one in 2010. A Dublin poster put up the stats yesterday.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 18/08/2023 13:52:11
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Replying To avonali: "Yeah yeah whatever we are Union Jack waving chaps up in Dublin. Is that the best you can come up with????
By the way, ye must have been very fond of Elizabeth I retain the town name 'Virginia'. Obviously anxious to retain your links to the British monarch up in Cavan. :D" Let's not forget KINGScourt. They love their royals in Cavan. :)
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 18/08/2023 13:57:29
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Replying To Joxer: "On average only 5 players who didn't play in the final win an all-stars Mick. Brogan was one in 2010. A Dublin poster put up the stats yesterday." OK I thought you meant poty Joxer. The all stars were better years ago as it took the league into account too.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 18/08/2023 14:13:20
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "OK I thought you meant poty Joxer. The all stars were better years ago as it took the league into account too." Sorry, my wording was bad there. I only speak facts Mick. :). It would be gas now if McGuigan won POTY and the Dubs and Kerry got 2 all-stars each. That would really set the cat amongst the.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 18/08/2023 15:43:38
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Replying To Joxer: "Let's not forget KINGScourt. They love their royals in Cavan. :)" Jaysiss I'd forgotten about KINGScourt!! LOL.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 18/08/2023 16:40:34
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "After a great football year, it was disappointing to finish with the RTE football panel on the Sunday Game being somewhat biased in their decision making, in picking both the player of the year and football team of the year.
Footballer of the Year
James McCarthy is one of my favorite players of all time and probably the best Dublin player ever to lace a boot. However, he was definitely not the player of the year for me this year. In the All Ireland final yesterday he gave away two early frees which Kerry scored from and he should have been clearly sent off for persistent fouling. If his name was not James McCarthy and captain of the Dublin team, he would have been sent off by the referee or taken off and substituted as he was having a terrible game.
While David Clifford left his shooting boots at home he won practically every ball against Mick Fitzsimons and set up numerous scoring opportunities for several other Kerry forwards, including the goal. In my opinion he had a much better year overall than James McCarthy. For consistency and excellence over the entire football year, I would have selected David Clifford, Brendan Rogers, Shane McGuigan, Enda Smith, Conor McCluskey, Stephen Cluxton and several others before James McCarthy. The panel were supposed to be voting for player of year for 2023 and not the player of all time.
Anyone with an interest in psychology would see great examples of selective perception bias, anchoring bias (historical playing history), groupthink and halo effect in their decision-making process. It is clearly a wrong decision and should be called out. I still have great respect for James McCarthy by the way and my respect for him has not changed. What a player he has been.
Team of the Year
While everyone would have their view on who should be on the team of the year, I find it very hard to understand some of the selections for the team this year. While the panel got many of their decisions correct, I felt that they got several clearly wrong and again suffered from some common biases and errors.
From a Roscommon perception we would have to ask did Paul Mannion have a better playing year than Enda Smith? The answer is clearly NO. Enda Smith had an outstanding year in all league and the championship. He was player of the match in three championship matches including the games against Mayo and Galway (two top contenders) and did not have a bad match all year. He adhered to the gameplan of playing deeper than normal in order to make space for other Roscommon forwards, and could not have done any more for the Roscommon team. I do not like running down other players, but apart from the All Ireland final, Paul Mannion did not have an outstanding year and was taken off in some matches. However, he did deserve the player of the match award yesterday.
Paul Mannion scored five points from play against his opposite number Tadhg Morley yesterday but Tadhg was still voted as the best center half back of the year. The center of Kerry's defence was clearly a major problem area for them yesterday. Gareth McKinless from Derry had a better year and should have been selected in that position. I will leave it at that!" At least the All Star selectors made a much better job of selecting the Player of the Year and the All Star football team than the RTE panel back last July. (See comments above). Not sure how the RTE football panel came up with some of their selections.
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 507 - 17/11/2023 21:18:17
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They aren't a real thing in my opinion i dont take them seriously as a sporting outcome. Its just free marketing for RTE an hour long TV add.
David Clifford is an excellent player and last year a very worthy winner, this year year though, no, he won because RTE are deep into marketing his profile - its gone way overboard IMO.
Pushing the Dublin and Kerry thing hard as well.
Bit of a farce all in all really.
Its gone very cringey.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/11/2023 11:27:55
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Fifty-seven games against 48 opponents across nine competitions for four teams.
That, essentially, is the breadth of David Clifford's two-year long season for Kerry, Fossa, East Kerry and UL.
The past 23 or so months have yielded ten trophies, two Footballer of the Year awards, a pair of All-Stars.
In those 57 games, he kicked 29-305. Some 24-178 of that tally came from play.
It works out at an average of 6.9 points per game. Even that's not entirely accurate as Clifford spent chunks of seven of those games on the bench. The true figure is well above seven points per game when minutes played are calculated.
His average scoring from play is almost 4.5 points per game.
wishfulthinkin (Cavan) - Posts: 1680 - 22/11/2023 07:54:46
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Replying To TheUsername: "They aren't a real thing in my opinion i dont take them seriously as a sporting outcome. Its just free marketing for RTE an hour long TV add.
David Clifford is an excellent player and last year a very worthy winner, this year year though, no, he won because RTE are deep into marketing his profile - its gone way overboard IMO.
Pushing the Dublin and Kerry thing hard as well.
Bit of a farce all in all really.
Its gone very cringey." Yet here you are commenting on them....
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 22/11/2023 10:41:29
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Replying To TheUsername: "They aren't a real thing in my opinion i dont take them seriously as a sporting outcome. Its just free marketing for RTE an hour long TV add.
David Clifford is an excellent player and last year a very worthy winner, this year year though, no, he won because RTE are deep into marketing his profile - its gone way overboard IMO.
Pushing the Dublin and Kerry thing hard as well.
Bit of a farce all in all really.
Its gone very cringey." It's all down to opinion, many many others feel Clifford was the obvious choice for POTY - Not exactly daylight robbery for him to win it, some of the moments he produced in the championship were magic.
People just like a moan nowadays, if it was Fenton that won it, there'd be uproar too!
TobeaRossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 130 - 23/11/2023 09:03:06
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Replying To TheUsername: "They aren't a real thing in my opinion i dont take them seriously as a sporting outcome. Its just free marketing for RTE an hour long TV add.
David Clifford is an excellent player and last year a very worthy winner, this year year though, no, he won because RTE are deep into marketing his profile - its gone way overboard IMO.
Pushing the Dublin and Kerry thing hard as well.
Bit of a farce all in all really.
Its gone very cringey." Also talking about RTE and wanting to use Clifford profile etc
What's your view on the single biggest token winner in the history of the award? Namely Stephen Cluxton in 2019? Or did you have any issues with that?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 25/11/2023 13:28:03
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Replying To wishfulthinkin: "Fifty-seven games against 48 opponents across nine competitions for four teams.
That, essentially, is the breadth of David Clifford's two-year long season for Kerry, Fossa, East Kerry and UL.
The past 23 or so months have yielded ten trophies, two Footballer of the Year awards, a pair of All-Stars.
In those 57 games, he kicked 29-305. Some 24-178 of that tally came from play.
It works out at an average of 6.9 points per game. Even that's not entirely accurate as Clifford spent chunks of seven of those games on the bench. The true figure is well above seven points per game when minutes played are calculated.
His average scoring from play is almost 4.5 points per game." In the clutch games i.e Kerry's last 6 knock-out games, '22 and '23, David has scored 1-14 from play, an average of less than 3 pts a game, reasonable but let's say hardly awesome?
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 683 - 25/11/2023 16:55:12
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Replying To sligo joe: "In the clutch games i.e Kerry's last 6 knock-out games, '22 and '23, David has scored 1-14 from play, an average of less than 3 pts a game, reasonable but let's say hardly awesome?" For a forward nowadays who is double marked thats fairly impressive.David is judged by higher standards than most but mostly he delivers.Even in the Alk Ireland final some say he played poorly (he did by his own high standards)but he still scored 2 points from play and brilliantly set up a goal.He was directly responsible for Kerry scoring 1-5..Because of his reputation Mick Fitzsimmons got great praise for his display on David in the final but if anyone cares to watch the game again Mick Fitz did nt beat Clifford to one ball.In fact Fitz was well beaten only David s shooting was askew.Some say Fitz put David off but watch again and you ll see David got by Fitz easily everytime.Fitzsimmons is great back but he had little impact in AI final .David Clifford produced pure magic this year theoughout league and championship.Believe it or not Chrissy McKaigue marked him better than most but David had his shooting boots with him.Before the All Ireland final David Clifford was red hot favourite with the bookies Paddy Power and Boyles to win poty.The only one close with a chance of catching him was James McCarthy and that would even need a motm performance.James had a quiet final so much so he did nt get nominated.Yes im from Kerry but I do try to be fair but in my humble opinion David Clifford deserved his player of the year award.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 25/11/2023 20:34:28
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Replying To sligo joe: "In the clutch games i.e Kerry's last 6 knock-out games, '22 and '23, David has scored 1-14 from play, an average of less than 3 pts a game, reasonable but let's say hardly awesome?" For people who claim to not care about these awards Dublin posters are sure trying their best to discredit David Clifford winning POTY.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 26/11/2023 09:32:13
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Replying To oneoff: "For people who claim to not care about these awards Dublin posters are sure trying their best to discredit David Clifford winning POTY." Some is the word you seek!
I certainly do not resent Clifford getting it, He was the most obvious candidate over the course of the year. Underlined by the fact that he was out with Fossa the day after the ceremony kicking ten points, Would be churlish to question it. He also comes across as a genuinely decent chap.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2557 - 26/11/2023 12:31:33
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "Some is the word you seek!
I certainly do not resent Clifford getting it, He was the most obvious candidate over the course of the year. Underlined by the fact that he was out with Fossa the day after the ceremony kicking ten points, Would be churlish to question it. He also comes across as a genuinely decent chap." Did I say that you were? Take a look at comments on here and where are most of the people trying to discredit him from?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 26/11/2023 18:25:07
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Replying To oneoff: "Did I say that you were? Take a look at comments on here and where are most of the people trying to discredit him from?" Out of a population of almost 1.5 million, all Dublin people follow GAA and all are on here? A select few are questioning Clifford being awarded POTY 2023. That in itself isn't a bad thing! Listen! David Clifford was hands down the best player in Ireland this year, as far as I'm concerned. However, it isn't often that a player who isn't from the AI winning team that gets the award. In 2016 Tipperary fans (all on here as well) questioned why one of their lads didn't get chosen and why it was Austin Gleeson that got it instead. They questioned. They didn't begrudge (even Tipp people). My reading of the comments on here is of a very similar situation. Questions can be legitimately asked. Stats can be introduced etc. but can be interpreted to fit the left-foot one day and the right one the next day.
So, relax and take it all with a pinch of salt.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1912 - 26/11/2023 23:11:38
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Out of a population of almost 1.5 million, all Dublin people follow GAA and all are on here? A select few are questioning Clifford being awarded POTY 2023. That in itself isn't a bad thing! Listen! David Clifford was hands down the best player in Ireland this year, as far as I'm concerned. However, it isn't often that a player who isn't from the AI winning team that gets the award. In 2016 Tipperary fans (all on here as well) questioned why one of their lads didn't get chosen and why it was Austin Gleeson that got it instead. They questioned. They didn't begrudge (even Tipp people). My reading of the comments on here is of a very similar situation. Questions can be legitimately asked. Stats can be introduced etc. but can be interpreted to fit the left-foot one day and the right one the next day.
So, relax and take it all with a pinch of salt." Again where did I say they all were?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 27/11/2023 11:53:46
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