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TheMaster knew something about a sport. That's some statement!
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 11/08/2023 12:52:30 2500060 Link 1 |
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Debatable I know. A quality WUM though.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 11/08/2023 13:45:44 2500066 Link 1 |
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Cluxton will be there or thereabouts for an All Star and deservedly so. I don't think James McCarthy did enough to win POTY. There are others who in my opinion are well ahead of him. David Clifford is one. Brendan Rogers and Conor McCluskey would be two more.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/08/2023 13:51:57 2500068 Link 1 |
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He'd be my pick I think. He won't get it though. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13719 - 11/08/2023 14:07:19 2500072 Link 1 |
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Brendan Rogers had a great season MesAmis. I don't think there'd be too many complaints if he got it. I know Conor McCluskey wouldn't be the choice of many but I think he was outstanding all year.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/08/2023 14:15:41 2500076 Link 0 |
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Haha yes but half the time he wasn't being a WUM he was just ill informed .
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 11/08/2023 14:27:19 2500081 Link 1 |
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I think we can add Fenton to the list of candidates for POTY also tbh. Personally think it will be between Fenton McCarthy and Clifford. Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3738 - 11/08/2023 14:30:04 2500083 Link 0 |
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Why won't you answer the question?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 11/08/2023 15:14:00 2500093 Link 0 |
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I was very interested in how you finished this post Fionn: "But i wouldnt be losing sleep over it and continually trying to prove a point - be it positive or negative, depending on your team preference. What will be, will be" You do realise that you must have posted about 30 - 40 times on the team/player, 2023 Dublin v Kerry and the Dublin Gaa threads since the All Ireland Final, primarily repeating the same things over and over again. Maybe it might be a good idea to implement your own suggestion an odd time. letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 527 - 11/08/2023 15:54:41 2500096 Link 1 |
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You're probably right Fionn but in my opinion McCarthy didn't do enough to be there. Others did more.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/08/2023 16:52:40 2500108 Link 0 |
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Not a bad shout at all Greengrass. The whole POTY debate is very strange. From a Dublin POV I think various players played well in various games but I don't think anyone was necessarily at POTY standard over a sustained run of games. As for Clifford, poor in the quarter final and poor again in the final. That's poor in 2 of the 3 biggest games of the year. I can't think of any other FOTY or HOTY getting the award despite playing badly in 2/3rds of the biggest games. Genuinely finding the narrative from a lot of pundits that it's a 'no-brainer' very confusing. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13719 - 11/08/2023 22:46:39 2500129 Link 2 |
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How was he poor in these games? Scored 3 points in the final and was involved with another 1-03 .
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 12/08/2023 09:33:25 2500148 Link 0 |
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Yeah he had a poor final. It really shouldn't be that controversial a point. It doesn't make him a bad player. A lot of people were involved in that 1-3 you've cited so I think that's being generous in the extreme. James McCarthy had a poor final I think you'd agree, was 'involved' in plenty of Dublin scores though. Clifford gave Dublin the ball back a lot, through his very poor shooting and a turnover. 2 of his wides/misses were extremely poor under no pressure, and the others were extremely poor shot selection. He's a great player undoubtedly but had a negative impact on Kerry in the final overall even by the most generous of takes. If Clifford hadn't have been as poor then Kerry would be champions now if we're being honest. It's a strange year for FOTY, with neither of the finalists having a stand out candidate unlike last year where you had Clifford and Walsh as standouts. Weirdly the narrative is that it's either Clifford or McCarthy, neither deserving and more deserving players who were knocked out earlier will be ignored. Again he's a great player but had a poor quarter final and poor final by anyone's standards. I can't remember anyone getting FOTY or HOTY having performed poorly in 2 out of his 3 biggest games of the year. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13719 - 12/08/2023 10:28:23 2500159 Link 2 |
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By your logic Claxtons points had bearing on his display because as you have said ". A lot of people were involved" Same with his kickouts, the thing Dubs have been raving about for years, as he's only playing a part in it. Or is it different when it's him?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 13/08/2023 15:35:21 2500302 Link 1 |
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Réad an interesting Article today by Cahir Ó Kane on the debate between Shane Ryan and Stephen Cluxton over the 2023 championship. Kane writes that statistics show Shane Ryan had a better championship than Cluxton. Now I have no problem if Cluxton gets an all star but some posters posted before they did nt see alot of Ryan. Here are the stats. CLUXTON CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3681 - 15/08/2023 21:58:15 2500695 Link 0 |
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Was the quality of opposition taken into account Mick? Kerry put cricket scores up against two hurling counties to win Munster and without any disrespect to those counties, my granny would be winning kick-outs against them. Beating Tipp by 20 points in a Munster football final, keeping a clean sheet and hitting 100% of your kick-outs is not something that you'd have top of your CV. Interesting stats though. :)
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 16/08/2023 11:01:42 2500742 Link 1 |
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Most keepers have 100%kickouts when it's uncontested. I'm only giving the stats Joxer. Laois are hardly world beaters either and Dublin hardly have tough opposition in Leinster. As for the rest Dublin had Mayo and Monaghan we had Tyrone and Derry. Nitpick all you want Joxer but the stats are there. I get the feeling no matter what Shane Ryan did you would nt give him any credit eventhough you have nt seen all his games. Of course I'm bigging up my own but I did say I've no problem with Cluxton getting an all star either but Shane is up there too.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3681 - 16/08/2023 11:41:58 2500754 Link 1 |
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Of course, you'd be hard put to paint his contribution in the final as a disaster, or even close to that - he had an OK game - but like it or not, players are judged to an extent on their own high standards, and everyone knows that Clifford (though a combination of being well marked and as a consequence on occasion forcing it a bit) was not at his consistent best in the final. Nobody from Kerry is telling me that he played a stormer in the final. And, to get POTY, you generally need to be able to say that about someone. The reason why so much emphasis is placed on performance in finals is that the pressure in them is higher. A fine display in a final rightly gets more credit than a brilliant performance in a provincial first round. Very obvious point, but it sometimes gets forgotten in the debate ...
points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 242 - 16/08/2023 12:17:03 2500764 Link 0 |
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So again by your logic Claxtons kickouts being a big deal is actually a myth? Seeing as Dublin have been hammering teams or this another thing that's different because it's Claxton?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 16/08/2023 12:25:28 2500767 Link 0 |
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He scored 2 from play in the final. The other was a free on the 21 in front of the posts. A Junior C corner-back would kick it, so it's not really relevant when grading his performance. The 2 points from play were good scores. The pass for the goal was sublime. However, you also have to look at the negative side of the ledger. He kicked 5 wides and dropped another well short into Cluxton. He took on a few shots that really weren't on at a crucial time in the game. Most of the misses were at the most critical stage of the game, when the pressure was at its highest. Overall, if you asked himself I'm sure he'd be disappointed with his overall performance. He's an exceptional forward, but on balance he didn't have a good final. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2053 - 16/08/2023 13:04:48 2500775 Link 0 |