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Replying To letsgetgoing: "After a great football year, it was disappointing to finish with the RTE football panel on the Sunday Game being somewhat biased in their decision making, in picking both the player of the year and football team of the year.
Footballer of the Year
James McCarthy is one of my favorite players of all time and probably the best Dublin player ever to lace a boot. However, he was definitely not the player of the year for me this year. In the All Ireland final yesterday he gave away two early frees which Kerry scored from and he should have been clearly sent off for persistent fouling. If his name was not James McCarthy and captain of the Dublin team, he would have been sent off by the referee or taken off and substituted as he was having a terrible game.
While David Clifford left his shooting boots at home he won practically every ball against Mick Fitzsimons and set up numerous scoring opportunities for several other Kerry forwards, including the goal. In my opinion he had a much better year overall than James McCarthy. For consistency and excellence over the entire football year, I would have selected David Clifford, Brendan Rogers, Shane McGuigan, Enda Smith, Conor McCluskey, Stephen Cluxton and several others before James McCarthy. The panel were supposed to be voting for player of year for 2023 and not the player of all time.
Anyone with an interest in psychology would see great examples of selective perception bias, anchoring bias (historical playing history), groupthink and halo effect in their decision-making process. It is clearly a wrong decision and should be called out. I still have great respect for James McCarthy by the way and my respect for him has not changed. What a player he has been.
Team of the Year
While everyone would have their view on who should be on the team of the year, I find it very hard to understand some of the selections for the team this year. While the panel got many of their decisions correct, I felt that they got several clearly wrong and again suffered from some common biases and errors.
From a Roscommon perception we would have to ask did Paul Mannion have a better playing year than Enda Smith? The answer is clearly NO. Enda Smith had an outstanding year in all league and the championship. He was player of the match in three championship matches including the games against Mayo and Galway (two top contenders) and did not have a bad match all year. He adhered to the gameplan of playing deeper than normal in order to make space for other Roscommon forwards, and could not have done any more for the Roscommon team. I do not like running down other players, but apart from the All Ireland final, Paul Mannion did not have an outstanding year and was taken off in some matches. However, he did deserve the player of the match award yesterday.
Paul Mannion scored five points from play against his opposite number Tadhg Morley yesterday but Tadhg was still voted as the best center half back of the year. The center of Kerry's defence was clearly a major problem area for them yesterday. Gareth McKinless from Derry had a better year and should have been selected in that position. I will leave it at that!" I agree with most of your post but Morley was marking Con Ó Callaghan yesterday and Morley was brilliant. However I agree it's team of the year and M Kinless of Derry deserves CB. Also Enda Smith deserves to be on stream of the year. There will be a few changes for the All stars and McKinless and Smith have a great chance of all stars and imo should get them.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3680 - 31/07/2023 15:03:14
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "After a great football year, it was disappointing to finish with the RTE football panel on the Sunday Game being somewhat biased in their decision making, in picking both the player of the year and football team of the year.
Footballer of the Year
James McCarthy is one of my favorite players of all time and probably the best Dublin player ever to lace a boot. However, he was definitely not the player of the year for me this year. In the All Ireland final yesterday he gave away two early frees which Kerry scored from and he should have been clearly sent off for persistent fouling. If his name was not James McCarthy and captain of the Dublin team, he would have been sent off by the referee or taken off and substituted as he was having a terrible game.
While David Clifford left his shooting boots at home he won practically every ball against Mick Fitzsimons and set up numerous scoring opportunities for several other Kerry forwards, including the goal. In my opinion he had a much better year overall than James McCarthy. For consistency and excellence over the entire football year, I would have selected David Clifford, Brendan Rogers, Shane McGuigan, Enda Smith, Conor McCluskey, Stephen Cluxton and several others before James McCarthy. The panel were supposed to be voting for player of year for 2023 and not the player of all time.
Anyone with an interest in psychology would see great examples of selective perception bias, anchoring bias (historical playing history), groupthink and halo effect in their decision-making process. It is clearly a wrong decision and should be called out. I still have great respect for James McCarthy by the way and my respect for him has not changed. What a player he has been.
Team of the Year
While everyone would have their view on who should be on the team of the year, I find it very hard to understand some of the selections for the team this year. While the panel got many of their decisions correct, I felt that they got several clearly wrong and again suffered from some common biases and errors.
From a Roscommon perception we would have to ask did Paul Mannion have a better playing year than Enda Smith? The answer is clearly NO. Enda Smith had an outstanding year in all league and the championship. He was player of the match in three championship matches including the games against Mayo and Galway (two top contenders) and did not have a bad match all year. He adhered to the gameplan of playing deeper than normal in order to make space for other Roscommon forwards, and could not have done any more for the Roscommon team. I do not like running down other players, but apart from the All Ireland final, Paul Mannion did not have an outstanding year and was taken off in some matches. However, he did deserve the player of the match award yesterday.
Paul Mannion scored five points from play against his opposite number Tadhg Morley yesterday but Tadhg was still voted as the best center half back of the year. The center of Kerry's defence was clearly a major problem area for them yesterday. Gareth McKinless from Derry had a better year and should have been selected in that position. I will leave it at that!" If 10 experts were to pick their team of the year we would have 10 different teams and i suppose thats fair enough the same for player of the year, Derrys Brendan Rodgers would be my player of the year a great year for club and county
germac (Down) - Posts: 535 - 31/07/2023 15:14:21
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Replying To arock: "For me the futility of this charade, it is utterly a pointless exercise. The two finalists HAVE to be represented, but the players picked are rarely the best in the chosen positions. The annual irratation is like a really bad itch. Who cares? After Cliffords performence he simply could not be chosen. For me it was Conor Glass in Football and about 16 of the Limerick hurling panel. But when players make their annual anyone but the dubs choices "balance" will be restored. Life is too short." conor glass isn't even the best derry player, never mind best in the country.
wishfulthinkin (Cavan) - Posts: 1689 - 31/07/2023 15:17:46
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Replying To Lockjaw: "David's radar was unusually off yesterday. It can happen to the best. Everyone is saying Mick Fitz did a great job, and he did as good a job as any man I've seen trying to curtail him. But who knows, if it was drier yesterday and Clifford was striking as cleanly as he usually does, he could have hit Fitz for 1-4 or 1-5 and there would be absolutely zero debate on here about POTY." That's true but the fact is that he only got 2 from play, Fitzy kept McManus to 2 from play in the semi also and has an excellent man marking record. Chances arevthat had Clifford popped a couple more over early then Dublin would have double marked him and put him out of the game. As it was they entrusted Fitzy to keep him quiet. Paidi O'Se used to say that if his marker didn't score then he (Paidi) had a great game, meaning that regardless of whether the forward missed 3 open goals, if you kept him quiet then you did your job. I think Fitzy gave Clifford the jitters yesterday and knocked his composure. Even when Clifford had a bit of space I think he expected Fitzy's hand to come around for the block because that's what he does. In contrast Mannion was zen like in his shooting, although still missed one or two that he'd normally bag.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 31/07/2023 15:20:09
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I agree with most of your post but Morley was marking Con Ó Callaghan yesterday and Morley was brilliant. However I agree it's team of the year and M Kinless of Derry deserves CB. Also Enda Smith deserves to be on stream of the year. There will be a few changes for the All stars and McKinless and Smith have a great chance of all stars and imo should get them." Morley was excellent. There was a lot of talk before about Dublin tying down himself and O'Sullivan and limiting the Kerry breaking attacks. Partially successful perhaps and O'Sullivan was less prominent up front than usually, but Morley won the tactical battle by pretty much keeping Con quiet.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2591 - 31/07/2023 16:19:19
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Replying To germac: "If 10 experts were to pick their team of the year we would have 10 different teams and i suppose thats fair enough the same for player of the year, Derrys Brendan Rodgers would be my player of the year a great year for club and county" I would nt argue with that but in my memory only one ever did a player get POTY and not play in the final. Bernard Brogan 2010.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3680 - 31/07/2023 16:23:54
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Replying To arock: "For me the futility of this charade, it is utterly a pointless exercise. The two finalists HAVE to be represented, but the players picked are rarely the best in the chosen positions. The annual irratation is like a really bad itch. Who cares? After Cliffords performence he simply could not be chosen. For me it was Conor Glass in Football and about 16 of the Limerick hurling panel. But when players make their annual anyone but the dubs choices "balance" will be restored. Life is too short." You couldn't pick Glass in a million years bar a ten minute spell in the ulster final he wasn't great.
Went missing in the semi final against Galway last year, missing against Kerry in the semi this year and more importantly went missing for his club in the all ireland final against Kilmacud.
shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 31/07/2023 16:24:56
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Replying To Joxer: "That's true but the fact is that he only got 2 from play, Fitzy kept McManus to 2 from play in the semi also and has an excellent man marking record. Chances arevthat had Clifford popped a couple more over early then Dublin would have double marked him and put him out of the game. As it was they entrusted Fitzy to keep him quiet. Paidi O'Se used to say that if his marker didn't score then he (Paidi) had a great game, meaning that regardless of whether the forward missed 3 open goals, if you kept him quiet then you did your job. I think Fitzy gave Clifford the jitters yesterday and knocked his composure. Even when Clifford had a bit of space I think he expected Fitzy's hand to come around for the block because that's what he does. In contrast Mannion was zen like in his shooting, although still missed one or two that he'd normally bag." Clifford had at least 3 scores you would have banked on him scoring. Fitz did well on him for sure but Clifford had the chances to rack up 6 or 7 from play.
Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 166 - 31/07/2023 16:30:16
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A fella who wasn't mentioned is Costello,Dublin probably wouldn't have been in final only for him..also sexton from Clare was excellent all year..it's a pity it's all down to final or semis..surely time for whole year to be considered..another who I was impressed with was powter with cork..I've also all the time been impressed with cluxton,controversially I'll ask,has he been best in that position all year??
CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2232 - 31/07/2023 16:45:10
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Replying To CTGAA10: "A fella who wasn't mentioned is Costello,Dublin probably wouldn't have been in final only for him..also sexton from Clare was excellent all year..it's a pity it's all down to final or semis..surely time for whole year to be considered..another who I was impressed with was powter with cork..I've also all the time been impressed with cluxton,controversially I'll ask,has he been best in that position all year??" No, Shane Ryan has.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5021 - 31/07/2023 16:59:14
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Team of the year probably should have more Dublin defenders on it. Conceded 0-13 per game average coming into that final yesterday and held Kerry to 1-13. For all the talk about forwards and most of the grabbing the lime light defence remains key in winning any AI. Kerry in comparison were simply that little bit off defensively this year compared to last year and 1-8 of the 1-15 conceded alone yesterday came when they left themselves man on man.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3358 - 31/07/2023 17:18:57
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Replying To cavanman47: "No, Shane Ryan has." Big games, big kudos, no bigger game than the All Ireland final and Stevo came out tops big time yesterday, kick-outs 23/23, 2 long range points, would be my man of the match
52 championship games since 2014, no game lost, some man Stevo
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 686 - 31/07/2023 18:58:35
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Replying To Gaa_lover: "Team of the year probably should have more Dublin defenders on it. Conceded 0-13 per game average coming into that final yesterday and held Kerry to 1-13. For all the talk about forwards and most of the grabbing the lime light defence remains key in winning any AI. Kerry in comparison were simply that little bit off defensively this year compared to last year and 1-8 of the 1-15 conceded alone yesterday came when they left themselves man on man." Just mention Jack McCaffrey, and it underlines the difficulty of selecting all-stars these times. You pick six 'all-star' defenders carefully for 2023, based solely on 'body of work' since January. Then you step back and realise that you'd pick McCaffrey ahead of every one of them if you could, and the same McCaffrey has just won a 2023 all-ireland medal in a tactical bench role. Could kind of make a similar point about Ciaran Kilkenny 2023 and forward selections too, but McCaffrey is still a major thorn for oppositions, and strangely that seems to be getting more noticeable the less he plays.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3479 - 31/07/2023 19:16:56
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Replying To cavanman47: "No, Shane Ryan has." Explain!
Onion_Sack (Dublin) - Posts: 203 - 31/07/2023 19:38:19
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Replying To wishfulthinkin: "conor glass isn't even the best derry player, never mind best in the country." You congirm my point exactly about the prejudiced, biased, pointless process. My opinion your opinion equals no opinion.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 31/07/2023 20:33:23
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The Clifford media love in is getting a bit out of hand. Non stop labelling him the GOAT and overreactions to basic stuff on the field. Darren oSullivan claiming his wides in the final show how good he is because normal players wouldn't have even tried to shot because they would miss. Claiming he is a shoe in for the award and its a non discussion who will win. Paul Flynn tried to push back against this narrative and is getting a pile on for being disrespectful to Clifford. I am surprised so many Munster twitter users are so pro Clifford is this because it is a hurling province so don't have a intense rivalry with Kerry and in a lot of cases support Kerry footballers?
brisbane (Galway) - Posts: 674 - 01/08/2023 12:25:03
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We know what Paul Flynn thinks now anyway. He has made some show of himself. I had thought he was ok.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 643 - 01/08/2023 12:56:26
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Very hard to pick a FOTY this year. No stand out candidate for me, Brendan Rogers maybe?
There is a weird push in the media and online for it to be Cliffford. Seems really odd to me, bordering on disrespectful of the fella if I'm honest.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 01/08/2023 14:15:32
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Just mention Jack McCaffrey, and it underlines the difficulty of selecting all-stars these times. You pick six 'all-star' defenders carefully for 2023, based solely on 'body of work' since January. Then you step back and realise that you'd pick McCaffrey ahead of every one of them if you could, and the same McCaffrey has just won a 2023 all-ireland medal in a tactical bench role. Could kind of make a similar point about Ciaran Kilkenny 2023 and forward selections too, but McCaffrey is still a major thorn for oppositions, and strangely that seems to be getting more noticeable the less he plays." Jack McCaffery soloed the ball blindly into Kerry players on 3 occasions and got turned over after coming on… He did win 2 frees ( 1 extremely soft ) but if that type of play gets you on team of the year the game is in a far worse state than I thought…,
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1960 - 01/08/2023 14:28:01
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Replying To sligo joe: "Big games, big kudos, no bigger game than the All Ireland final and Stevo came out tops big time yesterday, kick-outs 23/23, 2 long range points, would be my man of the match
52 championship games since 2014, no game lost, some man Stevo" No way you could consider him for man of the match with the mess he made of the goal. Geaney had had a shocking first half and almost fluffed his chance. But Cluxton, with a defender already covering behind him, didn't smother the attacker.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5021 - 01/08/2023 14:28:40
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