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I think the format is largely exciting and in the main doesnt need much change but there are a couple of things which need to be addressed by changes to the format.
Firstly, only the Joe McDonagh winners should be progressing to the preliminary quarter finals. It makes absolutely no sense that Offaly get further in the championship than Cork.
The change I would make is that in stead of the Joe McDonagh runners up getting through, the two 4th place teams should play each other to see who makes up the other preliminary quarter final place. Alternatively the winner of the two 4th place teams could play the McDonagh runners up in a play off. That 4th place play off could take place this coming weekend and wouldn't delay the championship at all.
The other change that needs to happen is if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh and get promoted they should be playing in the Munster championship. In this case Munster would have 6 teams and Leinster would have 5, with the bottom team in Munster getting relegated, and things returning to Leinster 6 and Munster 5 the following season.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 30/05/2023 09:52:18
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Replying To Onfor15: "I think the format is largely exciting and in the main doesnt need much change but there are a couple of things which need to be addressed by changes to the format.
Firstly, only the Joe McDonagh winners should be progressing to the preliminary quarter finals. It makes absolutely no sense that Offaly get further in the championship than Cork.
The change I would make is that in stead of the Joe McDonagh runners up getting through, the two 4th place teams should play each other to see who makes up the other preliminary quarter final place. Alternatively the winner of the two 4th place teams could play the McDonagh runners up in a play off. That 4th place play off could take place this coming weekend and wouldn't delay the championship at all.
The other change that needs to happen is if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh and get promoted they should be playing in the Munster championship. In this case Munster would have 6 teams and Leinster would have 5, with the bottom team in Munster getting relegated, and things returning to Leinster 6 and Munster 5 the following season." I think it's ridiculous that any Joe mc team goes through. That final should be on before the Liam Mc final.
Wexford ironically would have had an easier path into the AI series in 2024 had they been relegated. Can anyone explain how that makes any kind of sense?
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 30/05/2023 10:28:02
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Replying To Onfor15: "I think the format is largely exciting and in the main doesnt need much change but there are a couple of things which need to be addressed by changes to the format.
Firstly, only the Joe McDonagh winners should be progressing to the preliminary quarter finals. It makes absolutely no sense that Offaly get further in the championship than Cork.
The change I would make is that in stead of the Joe McDonagh runners up getting through, the two 4th place teams should play each other to see who makes up the other preliminary quarter final place. Alternatively the winner of the two 4th place teams could play the McDonagh runners up in a play off. That 4th place play off could take place this coming weekend and wouldn't delay the championship at all.
The other change that needs to happen is if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh and get promoted they should be playing in the Munster championship. In this case Munster would have 6 teams and Leinster would have 5, with the bottom team in Munster getting relegated, and things returning to Leinster 6 and Munster 5 the following season." 1. The McDonagh counties are facilitating the current provincial structure. The compromise is the McDonagh finalists hosting the third placed teams in the preliminary quarter-finals. McDonagh counties have to play top counties at some stage. The preliminary quarter-finals is the agreement.
2. A rule was passed at Congress in February. The McDonagh winner determines the province with 6 teams. The 6th team in the 6 team championship is relegated. If Kerry had won the McDonagh this year. Westmeath would still have been relegated. Kerry would have been automatically promoted to Munster.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7891 - 30/05/2023 10:43:32
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Interesting thoughts which would sort out the moaning about Carlow & Offaly still been in championship whilst Cork etc are gone.
Could you go a bit further in your suggestion that 4th in both Munster & Leinster would play the McDonagh Cup Winners & Runners up with the winners of those two matchs going onto play the third from the opposite province in quarter finals. So this year youd have cork or Wexford drawn to play either Offaly or Carlow , and if Cork and Wexford won it would be Cork V Dublin -Wexford V Tipperary in premlinary quarter finals.
OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 678 - 30/05/2023 10:54:54
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Replying To Onfor15: "I think the format is largely exciting and in the main doesnt need much change but there are a couple of things which need to be addressed by changes to the format.
Firstly, only the Joe McDonagh winners should be progressing to the preliminary quarter finals. It makes absolutely no sense that Offaly get further in the championship than Cork.
The change I would make is that in stead of the Joe McDonagh runners up getting through, the two 4th place teams should play each other to see who makes up the other preliminary quarter final place. Alternatively the winner of the two 4th place teams could play the McDonagh runners up in a play off. That 4th place play off could take place this coming weekend and wouldn't delay the championship at all.
The other change that needs to happen is if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh and get promoted they should be playing in the Munster championship. In this case Munster would have 6 teams and Leinster would have 5, with the bottom team in Munster getting relegated, and things returning to Leinster 6 and Munster 5 the following season." Why would you try to 'fix' something that isn't broken. The Munster Hurling Championship gave us absolutely epic encounters mostly based on the fact that the teams were evenly matched and it was difficult to get through. One slip up meant no more room for error. Start adding in that the 4th place goes through or adding in teams that won't be as competitive dilutes the whole thing IMHO.
Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 166 - 30/05/2023 10:55:33
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Replying To Onfor15: "I think the format is largely exciting and in the main doesnt need much change but there are a couple of things which need to be addressed by changes to the format.
Firstly, only the Joe McDonagh winners should be progressing to the preliminary quarter finals. It makes absolutely no sense that Offaly get further in the championship than Cork.
The change I would make is that in stead of the Joe McDonagh runners up getting through, the two 4th place teams should play each other to see who makes up the other preliminary quarter final place. Alternatively the winner of the two 4th place teams could play the McDonagh runners up in a play off. That 4th place play off could take place this coming weekend and wouldn't delay the championship at all.
The other change that needs to happen is if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh and get promoted they should be playing in the Munster championship. In this case Munster would have 6 teams and Leinster would have 5, with the bottom team in Munster getting relegated, and things returning to Leinster 6 and Munster 5 the following season." The 6th place munster team doesn't have to be automatically relegated. They can playoff with 5th in Leinster as the joe mcdonagh winner will be in Leinster anyway (cause there are no munster teams left)
GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 30/05/2023 11:00:09
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Just make it 4 groups of 4.
Make the provincial championships knock out again.
Then seed by finalist and league position. The hurling counties don't really take the league seriously. There's no reason we couldn't have top quality league games like in football.
skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 254 - 30/05/2023 11:18:24
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People are missing the point though, many of the match-ups we loved this year would still happen in a knock-out provincial championship followed by 2 x groups of 5-6 team round robins. Before the year is out, the cream would undisputedly rise to the top and many of the same match ups would happen by the time the championship is over.
Whatever comes up next has to have 2 aims, to level the playing field regarding promotion and relegation while also promoting hurling in the middle tier.
Imagine having so many matches to eliminate 1 team. Pointless.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1140 - 30/05/2023 11:22:18
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Replying To tiobraid: "I think it's ridiculous that any Joe mc team goes through. That final should be on before the Liam Mc final.
Wexford ironically would have had an easier path into the AI series in 2024 had they been relegated. Can anyone explain how that makes any kind of sense?" It is called a compromise. McDonagh counties facilitate the provincial structure. McDonagh finalists earn a home preliminary quarter-final.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7891 - 30/05/2023 11:54:54
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Being an ex-club player, the split season is good but I wonder could the GAA not come up with a format which had the All-Ireland final played in late September, hurling league reduced and a couple of "club weeks" every 4-6 weeks.
The loss of April for clubs killed off the vibe in a lot of clubs until mid-summer, who does that benefit?
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1737 - 30/05/2023 12:09:37
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Replying To legendzxix: "It is called a compromise. McDonagh counties facilitate the provincial structure. McDonagh finalists earn a home preliminary quarter-final." So the losers of the Intermediate cship can win the senior cship and remain intermediate again next year based on the rules of the competition?
Or the Intermediate champions can also win the senior cship in the same year.
I cant wrap my head around how this has ever made sense.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 30/05/2023 13:58:51
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Replying To tiobraid: "So the losers of the Intermediate cship can win the senior cship and remain intermediate again next year based on the rules of the competition?
Or the Intermediate champions can also win the senior cship in the same year.
I cant wrap my head around how this has ever made sense." The 2017 Leinster championship consisted of 9 teams. For the then proposed 5 team Leinster round robin to be approved, the compromise was the McDonagh finalists entering at the preliminary quarter-final stage.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7891 - 30/05/2023 14:33:41
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Replying To legendzxix: "The 2017 Leinster championship consisted of 9 teams. For the then proposed 5 team Leinster round robin to be approved, the compromise was the McDonagh finalists entering at the preliminary quarter-final stage." It wasn't ever a good idea though.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 30/05/2023 14:46:04
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Being an ex-club player, the split season is good but I wonder could the GAA not come up with a format which had the All-Ireland final played in late September, hurling league reduced and a couple of "club weeks" every 4-6 weeks.
The loss of April for clubs killed off the vibe in a lot of clubs until mid-summer, who does that benefit?" I think ideally we'd be able to have something like that.
I've felt that the following would work best.
February and March for provincial and All Ireland club championships. Inter-county preseason.
April and May for Provincial championships in both codes, lots of gaps so club games can be played around Inter-county games.
June, July, August for group stages in each code.
Hurling 2 groups of 6 in tier 1
Football 2 groups of 8 in 2 tiers.
September for Inter-county knockout rounds.
I think you can get 4 or 5 club games in each code played around inter-county games.
October to play off the remaining club games for each code. Counties knocked out by September can start earlier.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 30/05/2023 14:56:03
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think ideally we'd be able to have something like that.
I've felt that the following would work best.
February and March for provincial and All Ireland club championships. Inter-county preseason.
April and May for Provincial championships in both codes, lots of gaps so club games can be played around Inter-county games.
June, July, August for group stages in each code.
Hurling 2 groups of 6 in tier 1
Football 2 groups of 8 in 2 tiers.
September for Inter-county knockout rounds.
I think you can get 4 or 5 club games in each code played around inter-county games.
October to play off the remaining club games for each code. Counties knocked out by September can start earlier." That's more or less what we had before opting for this new set up. Other than creating windows for club games.
If they were serious about increasing importance of clubs they would indeed create space to hold games as you suggest, and allow senior county players to go back. And not allow managers to veto participation even during gaps periods. As was case for most of our history.
It would also highlight how few club games are impacted by inter county games. Which was how it was sold largely.
Surrendering August and September was a very poor decision. Some people have claimed it was a marketing error, but if one were cynical one might think that it was done exactly for marketing purpose. Just not to market hurling and football perhaps.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2591 - 30/05/2023 15:34:31
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Replying To Whammo86: "It wasn't ever a good idea though." The McDonagh counties had to be offered something. The top 2 in the qualifier group used to qualify for the Leinster quarter-finals. Under the restructuring, they were offered the preliminary quarter-finals instead.
The only other option was Carlow, Westmeath, Antrim and Laois demanding a 9 team Leinster championship, within the confines of the current provincial structure.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7891 - 30/05/2023 15:41:33
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Being an ex-club player, the split season is good but I wonder could the GAA not come up with a format which had the All-Ireland final played in late September, hurling league reduced and a couple of "club weeks" every 4-6 weeks.
The loss of April for clubs killed off the vibe in a lot of clubs until mid-summer, who does that benefit?" Fully agree. I think we can learn allot from something like the Premier League. They can run league, cup and international matches in parallel. International duty being accommodated by the international breaks.
I'm not saying we fully copy what they do, just saying there has to be opportunities to learn..
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 30/05/2023 16:28:20
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Replying To OpenStand: "Interesting thoughts which would sort out the moaning about Carlow & Offaly still been in championship whilst Cork etc are gone.
Could you go a bit further in your suggestion that 4th in both Munster & Leinster would play the McDonagh Cup Winners & Runners up with the winners of those two matchs going onto play the third from the opposite province in quarter finals. So this year youd have cork or Wexford drawn to play either Offaly or Carlow , and if Cork and Wexford won it would be Cork V Dublin -Wexford V Tipperary in premlinary quarter finals." Makes sense
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12130 - 30/05/2023 17:10:05
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Replying To legendzxix: "The McDonagh counties had to be offered something. The top 2 in the qualifier group used to qualify for the Leinster quarter-finals. Under the restructuring, they were offered the preliminary quarter-finals instead.
The only other option was Carlow, Westmeath, Antrim and Laois demanding a 9 team Leinster championship, within the confines of the current provincial structure." The problem was having a 10 team top tier and trying to shoe horn a Provincial set up into a national championship.
Think a lot of people understand what needs to happen, whether any of them are in the GAA is another matter.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 30/05/2023 17:44:26
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Replying To OpenStand: "Interesting thoughts which would sort out the moaning about Carlow & Offaly still been in championship whilst Cork etc are gone.
Could you go a bit further in your suggestion that 4th in both Munster & Leinster would play the McDonagh Cup Winners & Runners up with the winners of those two matchs going onto play the third from the opposite province in quarter finals. So this year youd have cork or Wexford drawn to play either Offaly or Carlow , and if Cork and Wexford won it would be Cork V Dublin -Wexford V Tipperary in premlinary quarter finals." I'm not against this idea. There is merit in the McDonagh finalists playing the 4th placed teams two weeks after the McDonagh final. Essentially a return of qualifier rounds.
Q1: McDonagh finalists at home versus the 4th placed teams.
Q2: 3rd placed teams versus Q1 winners. McDonagh winners granted home advantage if they cause a shock in Q1. Otherwise 3rd placed teams awarded home advantage.
QF: Provincial runners-up versus Q2 winners. Neutral venue as per current regulations.
Not everyone will be in favour of 4th placed teams still being included. Playing two qualifying rounds away and potentially a quarter-final over three weekends in a row would be a disadvantage though.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7891 - 30/05/2023 19:06:42
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