Donegal Forum

Moving Tyrone Game To Croker

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Replying To AudiMan:  "
Replying To donegaldouble:  "There are 2 main points with this fixture.

1. If the game is moved to Croke Park, obviously more people can go to the game, but all the fans from Donegal and Tyrone would be travelling to the hot spot of Covid Infection. Obviously infection rates may change before the fixture.

2. There will be an out cry of #Ballybofeyornowhere. If the game goes ahead in Mac Cumhaill Park, there will be reduced capacity. Say the capacity is reduced to 6k. The season ticket holders from both counties are guaranteed entry for first round of Championship, once they have the required % of league matches attended. That would leave about 3k tickets to be distributed between both counties. if each county received 1500, Donegal would have about 35 per club to distribute. Imagine the chaos of trying to get a ticket. Imagine the whinging from non club people looking for tickets.

Its a really difficult decision but if I were to make it, I would have it in Mac Cumhaill Park. There will be whinging galore but we can't give up home advantage."
Hi donegal double:. In point 2 you say season ticket holders from both counties guaranteed ticket for first round of championship, once they have the required % of league matches attended. Interested to know where you are getting this from?"
Yes AudiMan, I was getting ahead of myself. The percentage only comes into play if Donegal reach the AI final. Season ticket holders are entitled to first round match tickets.

The GAA Season Ticket covers the following for your county:

GAA 2020 Allianz Leagues round matches
Opening match of GAA Senior Championships
Then Pay & Play kicks in. Pay & Play means you will be automatically charged in advance of every subsequent match that your county plays in the the GAA Senior Championships whether you attend or not. There are a variety of routes to the All-Ireland Final in both codes and the prices for each game along the way do differ.

Cheers

donegaldouble (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 01/07/2020 14:37:46    2282549

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Ballybofey is a great home advantage with or without a large home crowd. We've been winning league games there in front of small crowds however Croke Park will suit our play for championship in October as the playing surface will be much better. If reduced capacity is still in place then the fans will have no impact on the outcome. As thing stand I don't know if I'd travel to Dublin or not for the game and I haven't missed a game in years!. I'll just wait to see what the status with Covid is at that time, if indeed it is played in Dublin or at all.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1580 - 06/07/2020 11:26:25    2283203

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "Ballybofey is a great home advantage with or without a large home crowd. We've been winning league games there in front of small crowds however Croke Park will suit our play for championship in October as the playing surface will be much better. If reduced capacity is still in place then the fans will have no impact on the outcome. As thing stand I don't know if I'd travel to Dublin or not for the game and I haven't missed a game in years!. I'll just wait to see what the status with Covid is at that time, if indeed it is played in Dublin or at all."
Fair comment, i think there is a host of positives and negatives you could look into.

1) your probably going to get a firm ground in Croke Park. By the time McCool Park is chewed up but the county championship who knows what it will be like underfoot in the first weekend in November, and going back to Castlebar lastyear, there are huge concerns about how we hold up in soft conditions as a light ball carrying team.

2) A shot at Croke Park early on (if successfully) would be a nice feather in the cap before potentially returning there in the semi final again most likely infront of a restricted capacity ( all ifs and buts)

3) You are no doubt losing that intangible home advantage. That dressing room the players have sat in 500 times, that tunnel they have ran through 500 times for training and matches, that confidence that comes from being on home soil, the surroundings, the smell from the River, it is all unique to home soil, and on the flip side, its all uncomfortable for the visitor, crowd or no crowd

So many variable, so much up in the air and still 4 months away where alot could change for the better or worse.

If i was asked here and now for my preference for a one off knock out game with an arch rival- its still home advantage in Ballybofey every time. Thats what came out of the hat. If this game was scheduled for Omagh we would no doubt be screaming for Croke Park, that tells you the power of home soil, worth afew points in the heat of battle always and between 2 evenly matched sides that could swing it.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 291 - 07/07/2020 13:49:02    2283328

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "Fair comment, i think there is a host of positives and negatives you could look into.

1) your probably going to get a firm ground in Croke Park. By the time McCool Park is chewed up but the county championship who knows what it will be like underfoot in the first weekend in November, and going back to Castlebar lastyear, there are huge concerns about how we hold up in soft conditions as a light ball carrying team.

2) A shot at Croke Park early on (if successfully) would be a nice feather in the cap before potentially returning there in the semi final again most likely infront of a restricted capacity ( all ifs and buts)

3) You are no doubt losing that intangible home advantage. That dressing room the players have sat in 500 times, that tunnel they have ran through 500 times for training and matches, that confidence that comes from being on home soil, the surroundings, the smell from the River, it is all unique to home soil, and on the flip side, its all uncomfortable for the visitor, crowd or no crowd

So many variable, so much up in the air and still 4 months away where alot could change for the better or worse.

If i was asked here and now for my preference for a one off knock out game with an arch rival- its still home advantage in Ballybofey every time. Thats what came out of the hat. If this game was scheduled for Omagh we would no doubt be screaming for Croke Park, that tells you the power of home soil, worth afew points in the heat of battle always and between 2 evenly matched sides that could swing it."
Good points there. I remember Mark McHugh was doing co-commentary for the league game against Galway when we missed a couple of frees near the end that might have gotten us a draw, or even a win. His belief was that if the exact same frees were on offer in the exact same position on the field in Ballbofey then at least one would have gone over. His theory being that the familiarity associated with MacCumhaill Park might have just made the difference in really tight situations like that.

Now some might say that's nonsense. That a field is a field and goal posts are goal posts. But muscle memory is a funny, intangible thing that can sometimes make the difference.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6876 - 07/07/2020 15:02:54    2283348

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "Fair comment, i think there is a host of positives and negatives you could look into.

1) your probably going to get a firm ground in Croke Park. By the time McCool Park is chewed up but the county championship who knows what it will be like underfoot in the first weekend in November, and going back to Castlebar lastyear, there are huge concerns about how we hold up in soft conditions as a light ball carrying team.

2) A shot at Croke Park early on (if successfully) would be a nice feather in the cap before potentially returning there in the semi final again most likely infront of a restricted capacity ( all ifs and buts)

3) You are no doubt losing that intangible home advantage. That dressing room the players have sat in 500 times, that tunnel they have ran through 500 times for training and matches, that confidence that comes from being on home soil, the surroundings, the smell from the River, it is all unique to home soil, and on the flip side, its all uncomfortable for the visitor, crowd or no crowd

So many variable, so much up in the air and still 4 months away where alot could change for the better or worse.

If i was asked here and now for my preference for a one off knock out game with an arch rival- its still home advantage in Ballybofey every time. Thats what came out of the hat. If this game was scheduled for Omagh we would no doubt be screaming for Croke Park, that tells you the power of home soil, worth afew points in the heat of battle always and between 2 evenly matched sides that could swing it."
Good points.
I would rather play them in C.P if it meant I got to watch it live. But home advantage is a big factor alright. Was reading an article about some sort of simulator draw made by experts based on a lot of factors. Note we beat Tyone well at home but lose by a few in CP. Of course a lot of ifs and buts.

Key questions to consider are;
Is home advantage worth that much when you don't have full support? If it went by season ticket holders I think Tyrone have more. Add in the club distribution and it could be level playing field or even less support for us if no one else is allowed in.

The Turf : wet heavy Ballybofey or a light CP? I think lads like Eoghan Ban, Ryan , Daire, Mogan, Brennan would prefer CP in terms of surface. Although it will suit Tyrone too.

Tyrone CP. They have plenty of experience playing here in big championship games.

Tyone Knockout games : a big factor not many are mentioning is that Tyrone are used to one game knockouts more than us, and are used to dealing with the pressure associated with it. (Maybe I'm wrong bit every time you look, they're playing Meath in the backdoors!)

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 476 - 07/07/2020 16:52:55    2283368

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "Good points.
I would rather play them in C.P if it meant I got to watch it live. But home advantage is a big factor alright. Was reading an article about some sort of simulator draw made by experts based on a lot of factors. Note we beat Tyone well at home but lose by a few in CP. Of course a lot of ifs and buts.

Key questions to consider are;
Is home advantage worth that much when you don't have full support? If it went by season ticket holders I think Tyrone have more. Add in the club distribution and it could be level playing field or even less support for us if no one else is allowed in.

The Turf : wet heavy Ballybofey or a light CP? I think lads like Eoghan Ban, Ryan , Daire, Mogan, Brennan would prefer CP in terms of surface. Although it will suit Tyrone too.

Tyrone CP. They have plenty of experience playing here in big championship games.

Tyone Knockout games : a big factor not many are mentioning is that Tyrone are used to one game knockouts more than us, and are used to dealing with the pressure associated with it. (Maybe I'm wrong bit every time you look, they're playing Meath in the backdoors!)"
A team playing early round games in wet and heavy turf like in Ballybofey are presumably more likely to pick up injuries than a team playing on a lighter pitch like Croke Park.

Will Dublin be playing in Parnell Park?

SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 117 - 08/07/2020 15:01:51    2283501

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I was reading a while back how playing behind closed doors in the Bundesliga nearly completely negated home advantage.I don't know what the stats are in England but at a glance I would say it would be a similar story.I don't know what conditions would suit but to progress further you would be playing in Croke Park anyway.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 642 - 08/07/2020 17:57:45    2283517

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Replying To gunman:  "I was reading a while back how playing behind closed doors in the Bundesliga nearly completely negated home advantage.I don't know what the stats are in England but at a glance I would say it would be a similar story.I don't know what conditions would suit but to progress further you would be playing in Croke Park anyway."
Germany is a much more competitive league from top to bottom, with the possibility for upsets and wins away from home much more frequent.

From what ive seen since the Prem restarted, if you take City, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool- they have pretty much won every game they were expected to win and i dont think they has been any instances of an away team landing a shock win at the home of the bigger 6 teams?

I dont content that its not somewhat a leveling of the playing field, without a doubt id rather face any team at Croke Park than on THEIR home soil- i just think it depends on the competition and as with the Prem where there is a huge gulf between top 6 and bottom 14- it hasnt closed the gap IMO.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 291 - 09/07/2020 10:27:53    2283559

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "Germany is a much more competitive league from top to bottom, with the possibility for upsets and wins away from home much more frequent.

From what ive seen since the Prem restarted, if you take City, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool- they have pretty much won every game they were expected to win and i dont think they has been any instances of an away team landing a shock win at the home of the bigger 6 teams?

I dont content that its not somewhat a leveling of the playing field, without a doubt id rather face any team at Croke Park than on THEIR home soil- i just think it depends on the competition and as with the Prem where there is a huge gulf between top 6 and bottom 14- it hasnt closed the gap IMO."
Where is the money to take teams Donegal for instance to Croke Park with none or very limited fans admitted ,When u talk about soccer and foreign national ,money is not a problem ,with television and other fiance's ,not compatible .

gaanervous (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 09/07/2020 13:23:23    2283577

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Replying To gaanervous:  "Where is the money to take teams Donegal for instance to Croke Park with none or very limited fans admitted ,When u talk about soccer and foreign national ,money is not a problem ,with television and other fiance's ,not compatible ."
I dont see where the money is at all to run a championship with vastly reduced crowd. One of the primary financial drivers of the GAA is ticket money/money at the gate.

Footfall through the gate could be down as much as 90% on the 2019 Hurling and Football Championships.

The costs to run these teams wont reduce by 90%, about 1m per year for Donegal in 2018 i believe.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 291 - 09/07/2020 14:26:12    2283584

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "Germany is a much more competitive league from top to bottom, with the possibility for upsets and wins away from home much more frequent.

From what ive seen since the Prem restarted, if you take City, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool- they have pretty much won every game they were expected to win and i dont think they has been any instances of an away team landing a shock win at the home of the bigger 6 teams?

I dont content that its not somewhat a leveling of the playing field, without a doubt id rather face any team at Croke Park than on THEIR home soil- i just think it depends on the competition and as with the Prem where there is a huge gulf between top 6 and bottom 14- it hasnt closed the gap IMO."
When the weaker teams don't have their fans behind at home they have no chance of beating the top teams.The chances of shocks are greatly reduced.In Germany there are a much higher percentage of away wins with the closed doors.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 642 - 09/07/2020 23:52:34    2283631

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Replying To gunman:  "When the weaker teams don't have their fans behind at home they have no chance of beating the top teams.The chances of shocks are greatly reduced.In Germany there are a much higher percentage of away wins with the closed doors."
Why has this principle not held true in England?

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 291 - 10/07/2020 12:33:50    2283673

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