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Sunday Game Football Team

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Replying To Aibrean:  " "Kerry folk voted in their droves". I wonder.
Michael Sheehy has 8 All-Stars - that's more than 4 of the chosen forwards.
John O Keeffe has 5 All-Stars - no chosen defender has more.
Ger Power has 6 All-Stars - more than any chosen defender (albeit he won most of his All-Stars as an attacker)."
Please name your team then? No disrespect but all-stars for Kerry and Dublin players were relatively easy to accumulate in the mid to late 70's given the lack of competition. These players were best around during that time but for over 40 years, I'm afraid not. Your point about Ger Power having more all-stars than any of the backs makes little sense. He's a forward so can't replace a back. Mattie Forde and Declan Browne were super players but don't have multiple all-stars or All-Irelands.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 181 - 28/05/2020 17:18:02    2279398

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Replying To winatallcost:  "
Replying To Aibrean:  " "Kerry folk voted in their droves". I wonder.
Michael Sheehy has 8 All-Stars - that's more than 4 of the chosen forwards.
John O Keeffe has 5 All-Stars - no chosen defender has more.
Ger Power has 6 All-Stars - more than any chosen defender (albeit he won most of his All-Stars as an attacker)."
Please name your team then? No disrespect but all-stars for Kerry and Dublin players were relatively easy to accumulate in the mid to late 70's given the lack of competition. These players were best around during that time but for over 40 years, I'm afraid not. Your point about Ger Power having more all-stars than any of the backs makes little sense. He's a forward so can't replace a back. Mattie Forde and Declan Browne were super players but don't have multiple all-stars or All-Irelands."
Ger Power, like his father Jackie the Limerick dual player, was very versatile. He first made his name as a wing back on the 75 All Ireland winning side.

Oldertourman (Limerick) - Posts: 95 - 28/05/2020 20:08:27    2279408

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Replying To winatallcost:  "
Replying To Aibrean:  " "Kerry folk voted in their droves". I wonder.
Michael Sheehy has 8 All-Stars - that's more than 4 of the chosen forwards.
John O Keeffe has 5 All-Stars - no chosen defender has more.
Ger Power has 6 All-Stars - more than any chosen defender (albeit he won most of his All-Stars as an attacker)."
Please name your team then? No disrespect but all-stars for Kerry and Dublin players were relatively easy to accumulate in the mid to late 70's given the lack of competition. These players were best around during that time but for over 40 years, I'm afraid not. Your point about Ger Power having more all-stars than any of the backs makes little sense. He's a forward so can't replace a back. Mattie Forde and Declan Browne were super players but don't have multiple all-stars or All-Irelands."
I don't think it should be a surprise to anybody that the teams that have had the most success make up the bulk of the team as they are the players that have appeared in and won the biggest games. I wouldn't take the named team all that seriously tbh. As somebody else said earlier you could get 100 people to name their team from the same period and I doubt you'd get two the same. Cluxton and maybe Canavan might be the only slam dunk certainties, you could argue for or against virtually everyone else.

Forde and Browne were unbelievable btw and definitely in the conversation.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1790 - 28/05/2020 21:55:19    2279417

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Replying To Kerry15:  "The Sunday Game Football team of the last 40 years as decided by a public vote:

1. Stephen Cluxton
2. Marc O'Sé
3. Seamus Moynihan
4. Paidí O'Sé
5. Tomas O'Sé
6. Lee Keegan
7. Jack McCaffrey
8. Jack O'Shea
9. Brian Fenton
10. Diarmuid Connolly
11. Peter Canavan
12. Pat Spillane
13. Colm Cooper
14. Michael Murphy
15. Maurice Fitzgerald

Thoughts?"
Take out Connolly. Doesn't deserve to be in a best ever team over the last 40 years- wasn't even Dublin's best 10 in that era (Paul Flynn only player to have won four consecutive All Stars in that position). Toss up between Flynn, Dooher and Donnellan.

In my opinion McGeeney has to be in there. Best centre-back I have ever seen, and a better pure defender than Jack out of the three selected in the half-back line there. I need to include Lee Keegan somewhere too, so would omit Marc O'Se, even if I never seen his uncle Paidi play.

Tohill would get in ahead of Fenton too purely on longevity. He did everything Fenton can do but in a far less successful team and well-oiled machine.

So revised team would be:

Cluxton

Keegan
Moynihan
O'Se (either one)

Tomas O'Se
McGeeney
McCaffrey

Tohill
O'Shea

Donnellan
Murphy
Spillane

Cooper
Canavan
Fitzgerald.

Looks nigh on perfect in terms of balance to me.
If it was just of players from my era, I would bring in Paul Flynn for Spillane (and switch the wing forwards), and Fenton in for Jacko, but I can't dispute the greatness of those Kerry lads.

Hard for me to exclude Leacy, Jordan and Forde in particular.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 463 - 28/05/2020 22:11:13    2279419

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Replying To beano:  "Take out Connolly. Doesn't deserve to be in a best ever team over the last 40 years- wasn't even Dublin's best 10 in that era (Paul Flynn only player to have won four consecutive All Stars in that position). Toss up between Flynn, Dooher and Donnellan.

In my opinion McGeeney has to be in there. Best centre-back I have ever seen, and a better pure defender than Jack out of the three selected in the half-back line there. I need to include Lee Keegan somewhere too, so would omit Marc O'Se, even if I never seen his uncle Paidi play.

Tohill would get in ahead of Fenton too purely on longevity. He did everything Fenton can do but in a far less successful team and well-oiled machine.

So revised team would be:

Cluxton

Keegan
Moynihan
O'Se (either one)

Tomas O'Se
McGeeney
McCaffrey

Tohill
O'Shea

Donnellan
Murphy
Spillane

Cooper
Canavan
Fitzgerald.

Looks nigh on perfect in terms of balance to me.
If it was just of players from my era, I would bring in Paul Flynn for Spillane (and switch the wing forwards), and Fenton in for Jacko, but I can't dispute the greatness of those Kerry lads.

Hard for me to exclude Leacy, Jordan and Forde in particular."
I think maybe our memories of the prowess of the earlier players of the era is a little rose tinted, watching the many old games on TV in recent weeks it is apparent thst while kicking the ball was much more prevalent the standard of kick passes was nothing short of brutal. Similarly the percentage of wides was way higher than nowadays even though the game was played at a slower pace.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 148 - 28/05/2020 22:59:01    2279422

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Replying To sligo joe:  "I think maybe our memories of the prowess of the earlier players of the era is a little rose tinted, watching the many old games on TV in recent weeks it is apparent thst while kicking the ball was much more prevalent the standard of kick passes was nothing short of brutal. Similarly the percentage of wides was way higher than nowadays even though the game was played at a slower pace."
Players train much harder and smarter and from a younger age nowadays. The skills and conditioning of modern players are far ahead of those from forty years ago. That is true of any field sport in the world.

That doesn't necessarily mean that players from that era were not great, if Jack O'Shea or Matt Connor were playing today and training alongside today's players they would surely be among the best in the game.

If the multiple World Cup winning Brazil team of the 60's and 70's at their peak played today's relatively average Brazil team I doubt they would get past the half way line. That does not mean they weren't great. Sport evolves over time, albeit I think the evolution of sports science in the past decade has accelerated at a faster rate than for several decades beforehand. We are probably close enough to the peak of what can be achieved in that regard, especially in professional sports.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1790 - 29/05/2020 00:14:49    2279425

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Players train much harder and smarter and from a younger age nowadays. The skills and conditioning of modern players are far ahead of those from forty years ago. That is true of any field sport in the world.

That doesn't necessarily mean that players from that era were not great, if Jack O'Shea or Matt Connor were playing today and training alongside today's players they would surely be among the best in the game.

If the multiple World Cup winning Brazil team of the 60's and 70's at their peak played today's relatively average Brazil team I doubt they would get past the half way line. That does not mean they weren't great. Sport evolves over time, albeit I think the evolution of sports science in the past decade has accelerated at a faster rate than for several decades beforehand. We are probably close enough to the peak of what can be achieved in that regard, especially in professional sports."
Agree that every era must be judged in it's own context. Nevertheless considering that the players of the 70s/80s grew up in an era of less distractions and kicked football from a very young age almost daily then I do think it is notable that the senior county players of that time were such inaccurate kickers of the ball. Dermot Crowe recounts a sequence in the 81 final, considered a classic, where six kicks in a row went to opposing players only ending when Tim Kennelly scuffed the ball over the sideline. Crowe says there was a joke at the time about Dublin's Mick Holden that every time he got the ball he kicked it over the sideline but it didn't matter because most times the opposition kicked the line ball straight back to Mick.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 148 - 29/05/2020 14:35:54    2279443

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Replying To grahamc9897:  "1.Cluxton
2.Marc O'Se
3.Darren Fay
4.O'Connell
5.Keegan
6.McGeeney
7.McCaffrey
8.Fenton
9.Cavanagh
10.Galvin
11.Giles
12.Geraghty
13.Cooper
14.Murphy
15.Fitzgerald"
Not a bad 'B' team ;)

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 698 - 29/05/2020 15:57:43    2279446

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I'm a Liverpool fan.

Rooney has an incredible career.

He was one of the best 17 year old players in history.

He was a physical freak for his age and a technically excellent player.

He was excellent at the Euros in 2004 and was a bit overhyped briefly after scoring 4 goals in 4 games.

He probably was never a top 10 player in the world, which was you'd say meant he fell short of his early promise but he was still an excellent player for a very long time.

As for the early end to his career. Forwards have an earlier peak than other players. He also still had a 14 year career by the time he left United. He'd a lot of miles on the clock.

His last season at United he wasn't up to it but that shouldn't take a meat from what was a long career at the top.

He was a top player.

As for the Brian Fenton analysis. I actually just think it's pure rubbish. He's won player of the year once already and was also nominated another time. He's been a key member of a hugely successful team. He's just also a very good footballer and has a really good knack of getting himself into the right position to be chipping in on the scoresheet himself.

When he's playing well Dublin are playing well, one of his few off days came in the first game against Kerry last year and you could see how much that affected Dublin's flow.

Is he the same sort of player as Jacko or Tohill or O'Shea. No he's very different. There are different ways of playing a position though and be effective, from what you say it sounds like you're under appreciating him because you're not appreciating his style of play."
He ceratinly was exceptional at 17. Rooney was one of those lads who was man big when a kid and appeared a prodigy at youth level. Once he had to play with other adults, he was still a very good player, but he struggled to make the same impact he had as a youth player. I'm not sure that he had the brains or the character to make it as a true great, ultimately - remember 2010? True greats burn more brightly under pressure; Rooney flopped: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jul/06/wayne-rooney-world-cup-expectation

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 698 - 29/05/2020 16:11:18    2279447

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Joke of a team obviously people don't remember the Galway teams that won all irelands in 98, 01 the Meath team that won all-irelands in 96, 99 and the cork teams that won all-irelands in 90 and 2010

Maroonforever (Galway) - Posts: 354 - 29/05/2020 16:21:18    2279448

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

From 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players."
Good pick. Best Tyrone player I ever seen was Frank McGuigan. Achieved little compared to subsequent Tyrone players; not managed or shielded from hangers-on like he'd be nowadays; best years in the US etc; and on that basis you'll meet non-Tyrone people telling you that eg S Cavanagh was a better player etc. (And when you meet someone talking rubbish to that extent, just drink up and leave tbh. ) But if you're just rating men on raw natural talent, The Bear had it all. That aside, I like Canavan's selection in that link:

1. J. O'Leary
2. K. McKeever
3. S. Moynihan
4. S.M. Lockhart
5. T. O'Sé
6. K. McGeeney
7. P. Curran
8. D. O'Sé
9. A. Tohill
10. J. McCartan
11. J. Fallon.
12. M. FitzGerald
13. M. Linden
14. P. Joyce
15. Gooch

My main comment on the RTE selection is how on earth do you leave out D O'Sé - the best proper midfielder this century.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 698 - 29/05/2020 16:51:49    2279452

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Agree that every era must be judged in it's own context. Nevertheless considering that the players of the 70s/80s grew up in an era of less distractions and kicked football from a very young age almost daily then I do think it is notable that the senior county players of that time were such inaccurate kickers of the ball. Dermot Crowe recounts a sequence in the 81 final, considered a classic, where six kicks in a row went to opposing players only ending when Tim Kennelly scuffed the ball over the sideline. Crowe says there was a joke at the time about Dublin's Mick Holden that every time he got the ball he kicked it over the sideline but it didn't matter because most times the opposition kicked the line ball straight back to Mick."
I think that anecdote might be a bit of an exaggeration but there is no doubt that today's players are better at just about everything, faster, stronger and better coached. You will find the same in every single field sport in the world I promise you.

Don't forget the football itself has become lighter and easier to kick over time as designs, materials and even the boots players wear have improved. Similarly in hurling some feel the sliotar has become too light and is too easy to puck over huge distances.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1790 - 29/05/2020 19:39:42    2279460

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Replying To essmac:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

From 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players."
Good pick. Best Tyrone player I ever seen was Frank McGuigan. Achieved little compared to subsequent Tyrone players; not managed or shielded from hangers-on like he'd be nowadays; best years in the US etc; and on that basis you'll meet non-Tyrone people telling you that eg S Cavanagh was a better player etc. (And when you meet someone talking rubbish to that extent, just drink up and leave tbh. ) But if you're just rating men on raw natural talent, The Bear had it all. That aside, I like Canavan's selection in that link:

1. J. O'Leary
2. K. McKeever
3. S. Moynihan
4. S.M. Lockhart
5. T. O'Sé
6. K. McGeeney
7. P. Curran
8. D. O'Sé
9. A. Tohill
10. J. McCartan
11. J. Fallon.
12. M. FitzGerald
13. M. Linden
14. P. Joyce
15. Gooch

My main comment on the RTE selection is how on earth do you leave out D O'Sé - the best proper midfielder this century."
I think these terms like "proper" mid-fielder, "real" defender, "total" attacker are a load of BS when it comes to a team game.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 148 - 29/05/2020 20:40:37    2279462

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