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Some comments and questions.
1. The games are more skillful today and better entertainment.
2. Players injuries are treated better today but is their over all health ?
3. Has money taken over the amateur ethos and the GAA in denial about it ?
4. Are managers exerting too much control over players ? Like how long they can play in a club game.
5. Do you think the GAA are a good organization despite the warts ?
6. Do you think players of the past are disingenuous about change ? After all changes came in their time also.
7. Is there a proper plan (grass roots) that will work to level the playing field for all counties to succeed? Or is that an unrealistic goal ?
8. Where will the games be 10 years from now or will the goose that laid the golden egg have departed.
My opinion is that some form of professional or semi will have to happen for the amateur game to survive. The assets of the club game are being pilfered by the inter county game. We all have a great appetite for the inter county games but do the drones (workers) in clubs have any say in where the kid they helped hold a hurley or kick a ball goes. That is why I believe the big game needs to move up, pay for what they get from the clubs and have a structure that allows them to draft with protection for the club. I also think this would help grow the amateur game with the incentive for players to move up. After all only 1% get there and the rest hopefully will stay with the club. Soccer may not be a great example but they do manage a payment system on a fraction of the support that the GAA have.
Rip it a part, add to it or what ever.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 19/03/2020 16:39:26
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Replying To Canuck: "Some comments and questions.
1. The games are more skillful today and better entertainment.
2. Players injuries are treated better today but is their over all health ?
3. Has money taken over the amateur ethos and the GAA in denial about it ?
4. Are managers exerting too much control over players ? Like how long they can play in a club game.
5. Do you think the GAA are a good organization despite the warts ?
6. Do you think players of the past are disingenuous about change ? After all changes came in their time also.
7. Is there a proper plan (grass roots) that will work to level the playing field for all counties to succeed? Or is that an unrealistic goal ?
8. Where will the games be 10 years from now or will the goose that laid the golden egg have departed.
My opinion is that some form of professional or semi will have to happen for the amateur game to survive. The assets of the club game are being pilfered by the inter county game. We all have a great appetite for the inter county games but do the drones (workers) in clubs have any say in where the kid they helped hold a hurley or kick a ball goes. That is why I believe the big game needs to move up, pay for what they get from the clubs and have a structure that allows them to draft with protection for the club. I also think this would help grow the amateur game with the incentive for players to move up. After all only 1% get there and the rest hopefully will stay with the club. Soccer may not be a great example but they do manage a payment system on a fraction of the support that the GAA have.
Rip it a part, add to it or what ever." Enough questions for at least 8 threads there!
1. Depends on ones perspective and one's age.For those who grew up with old style traditional football I would imagine the majority would say it was more entertaining back in the day. More skilful today? Overall probably yes, but perhaps not in all aspects of the game...In my opinion that would be the case in hurling anyway e.g. you never, ever see an overhead strike anymore. Young people will often point to the ease with which modern players score spectacular points from sidelines as a testing to the higher skill level of modern players but that is only because of the lighter, non- moisture absorbing sliotar of today.
2.Hard to say. The demands of the inter county game certainly puts more pressure on players than was ever there before which cant be all that good for the health in a game that is amateur.
3. Insofar as the GPA has had influence on the ethos, and insofar as the cost of training inter county teams has spiralled out of control, the answer is yes. I dont think the GAA are in denial as such.
4. Yes and no. Managers, elite players and supporters of county teams are demanding the highest professional standards in terms of team preparation. This inevitably requires "running a tight ship" and facilitates managers taking more control.
5.Yes
6. Not really. Cant paint them all with the same brush. Some never want change. Some are more than open to it.
7. No there isn't. Is it an unrealistic goal? Possibly, but that shouldnt stop efforts to bring about improvements.
8. Fairly pessimistic. I dont think Gaelic football will be in a great place in 20 years time whatever about 10 years time.With the hold rugby has on the hearts and minds of the next generation and with all the money that can be earned within it, I foresee the best and most talented footballers increasingly being lost to rugby/Aussie rules, with mainly only the less talented remaining within the game.
I would be rather more hopeful for hurling in that respect.
If paid professionalism or semi professionalism worked out the player drain could be stemmed but I really dont see that as a viable option.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 19/03/2020 19:17:33
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If GAA did go pro how many teams do people think we could afford to pay.
I imagine in hurling the 5 big Munster sides would be fine as would Wexford if they cut football lose, Galway should be fine but might have a big choice to make too and Kilkenny would definitely be involved and Dublin safe as long as the money and contracts are centrally done like in the rugby.
Football. Kerry ,maybe Cork and possibly a Munster team but I doubt anyone would buy into it.
Would definitely be a few in Leinster would end up without a pro team in either code and alot of proud Connaught teams would get the chop too.
Ulster would be the hardest to call but would be hard to find more than 4 I reckon.
Sad thing is if other sports are anything to go by good teams can get squashed to save or Puch teams in higher population areas which could see let's say Clare hurlers lose out to Dublin or Antrim saved in Ulster in exchange for Monaghan
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 19/03/2020 21:13:19
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Replying To Breezy: "If GAA did go pro how many teams do people think we could afford to pay.
I imagine in hurling the 5 big Munster sides would be fine as would Wexford if they cut football lose, Galway should be fine but might have a big choice to make too and Kilkenny would definitely be involved and Dublin safe as long as the money and contracts are centrally done like in the rugby.
Football. Kerry ,maybe Cork and possibly a Munster team but I doubt anyone would buy into it.
Would definitely be a few in Leinster would end up without a pro team in either code and alot of proud Connaught teams would get the chop too.
Ulster would be the hardest to call but would be hard to find more than 4 I reckon.
Sad thing is if other sports are anything to go by good teams can get squashed to save or Puch teams in higher population areas which could see let's say Clare hurlers lose out to Dublin or Antrim saved in Ulster in exchange for Monaghan" The county structure is the foundation of the supporter for the game. I am of the opinion that any form of professionalism should only include franchises from the top teams with the others having a path to it if seen to have resources.The All-Ireland as we know it should be contested by the clubs. (amateur).
It is difficult to know what is best. Other sports are taking players from the GAA. Other sports have a great model in the GAA to see how success can be achieved. A restructured FAI is going to be a big force within 10 years. The GAA itself is in denial that money is dictating who succeeds. Is Donegal in hurling going to pay 35 back room staff or Waterford in football ?
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 21/03/2020 15:29:53
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Replying To Canuck: "The county structure is the foundation of the supporter for the game. I am of the opinion that any form of professionalism should only include franchises from the top teams with the others having a path to it if seen to have resources.The All-Ireland as we know it should be contested by the clubs. (amateur).
It is difficult to know what is best. Other sports are taking players from the GAA. Other sports have a great model in the GAA to see how success can be achieved. A restructured FAI is going to be a big force within 10 years. The GAA itself is in denial that money is dictating who succeeds. Is Donegal in hurling going to pay 35 back room staff or Waterford in football ?" Other sports have a great model in the GAA to see how success can be achieved.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 758 - 21/03/2020 15:29:53 2274240
Which other sports?
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 21/03/2020 16:16:51
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Other sports have a great model in the GAA to see how success can be achieved.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 758 - 21/03/2020 15:29:53 2274240
Which other sports?" Sorry you are one of the people I will not engage with from your past insults.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 21/03/2020 18:54:46
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Replying To Canuck: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Other sports have a great model in the GAA to see how success can be achieved.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 758 - 21/03/2020 15:29:53 2274240
Which other sports?" Sorry you are one of the people I will not engage with from your past insults."
So who are all these other people you won't deign to "engage with"?
This is a public forum, if you're going to give an opinion or make a statement of fact, you should be prepared to back them up. You're behaving like Donald Trump.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 21/03/2020 19:57:59
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Replying To Canuck: "The county structure is the foundation of the supporter for the game. I am of the opinion that any form of professionalism should only include franchises from the top teams with the others having a path to it if seen to have resources.The All-Ireland as we know it should be contested by the clubs. (amateur).
It is difficult to know what is best. Other sports are taking players from the GAA. Other sports have a great model in the GAA to see how success can be achieved. A restructured FAI is going to be a big force within 10 years. The GAA itself is in denial that money is dictating who succeeds. Is Donegal in hurling going to pay 35 back room staff or Waterford in football ?" You will have some counties who have all the resources to play on their own at top level but many others would be able to compete only if combined with other counties
I dont see any reason why all Ireland should go back to clubs then?
The FAI considering all its issues will take longer than 10 years to really get itself right
You will have pay for play but It will vary per level like any other sport. Donegal in hurling wont have 35 paid backroom staff but they're several tiers below the top do conference or league 2 soccer sides have same staff numbers as premiership sides? No they dont. Its the same thing.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3495 - 21/03/2020 21:44:38
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Replying To KillingFields: "You will have some counties who have all the resources to play on their own at top level but many others would be able to compete only if combined with other counties
I dont see any reason why all Ireland should go back to clubs then?
The FAI considering all its issues will take longer than 10 years to really get itself right
You will have pay for play but It will vary per level like any other sport. Donegal in hurling wont have 35 paid backroom staff but they're several tiers below the top do conference or league 2 soccer sides have same staff numbers as premiership sides? No they dont. Its the same thing." All reasonable points. It would take a very structured, controlled system that tied the amateur game and pro game together while maintaining or increasing the profile of the amateur game in some way. The NHL in hockey have a good system when it comes to drafting, maybe not perfect but does protect the young player. A player plays in the juniors until called up. When called up if he plays 10 games has to be be given a contract and can't be sent down.
In reality the cost of tickets would have to double or more, ruling out some supporters but with more games you would pick a game to go to and watch the others on t.v.
One thing for sure is the cost and money involved at the top level in the GAA is spiralling. The teams that are successful show they are the big spenders. That can not be sustained either. Player are and will drift from the game with no interest in county service within the weaker counties. I hate the thought of some of the trappings that would come with a professional game. Alternative? Level the playing field. Centrally control the funding for teams, managers, player expenses and support resources.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 22/03/2020 13:47:38
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Replying To Canuck: "Some comments and questions.
1. The games are more skillful today and better entertainment.
2. Players injuries are treated better today but is their over all health ?
3. Has money taken over the amateur ethos and the GAA in denial about it ?
4. Are managers exerting too much control over players ? Like how long they can play in a club game.
5. Do you think the GAA are a good organization despite the warts ?
6. Do you think players of the past are disingenuous about change ? After all changes came in their time also.
7. Is there a proper plan (grass roots) that will work to level the playing field for all counties to succeed? Or is that an unrealistic goal ?
8. Where will the games be 10 years from now or will the goose that laid the golden egg have departed.
My opinion is that some form of professional or semi will have to happen for the amateur game to survive. The assets of the club game are being pilfered by the inter county game. We all have a great appetite for the inter county games but do the drones (workers) in clubs have any say in where the kid they helped hold a hurley or kick a ball goes. That is why I believe the big game needs to move up, pay for what they get from the clubs and have a structure that allows them to draft with protection for the club. I also think this would help grow the amateur game with the incentive for players to move up. After all only 1% get there and the rest hopefully will stay with the club. Soccer may not be a great example but they do manage a payment system on a fraction of the support that the GAA have.
Rip it a part, add to it or what ever." Wow, very deep post to tackle. I think as long as such talented "amateur" individuals like the Joe Cannings, David Cliffords, Shane Walshs, Patrick Horgans, Henry Shefflins, etc in both codes continue to pop up people will pay to see them perform. The GAA is in a good place even when a Kilkenny or a Dublin dominates their code thanks to that steady supply of talent.
Teams can rebuild or do a 180 degree change relatively fast as in the case of the Tipp hurlers who went from underachievers one year to champions the next.
A lot depends on the schools to keep the talent pool flowing. eg: As long as St Keirans and KK CBS keep turning out talent you'll always see KK Hurlers loaded at every level.
I'm very torn about whether to pay the players or not. It could be great or maybe not. Would everyone get the same amount? Would it vary based on gate receipts? Would jerseys with Joe Cannings name on the back entitle Canning to more money than Conor Cooney or whoever assuming his name sold the most jerseys. Would the starters get more than the subs? Would it get even more political in who starts and who sits?
GAA Abu.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 26/03/2020 23:45:06
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Replying To Trump2020: "Wow, very deep post to tackle. I think as long as such talented "amateur" individuals like the Joe Cannings, David Cliffords, Shane Walshs, Patrick Horgans, Henry Shefflins, etc in both codes continue to pop up people will pay to see them perform. The GAA is in a good place even when a Kilkenny or a Dublin dominates their code thanks to that steady supply of talent.
Teams can rebuild or do a 180 degree change relatively fast as in the case of the Tipp hurlers who went from underachievers one year to champions the next.
A lot depends on the schools to keep the talent pool flowing. eg: As long as St Keirans and KK CBS keep turning out talent you'll always see KK Hurlers loaded at every level.
I'm very torn about whether to pay the players or not. It could be great or maybe not. Would everyone get the same amount? Would it vary based on gate receipts? Would jerseys with Joe Cannings name on the back entitle Canning to more money than Conor Cooney or whoever assuming his name sold the most jerseys. Would the starters get more than the subs? Would it get even more political in who starts and who sits?
GAA Abu." Certainly a lot to be be considered Trump2020. You don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water. The model of other pro sports would not be a good fit or one I would like. In hockey the top player on a team maybe making 10 million a year and a fourth liner 700K. No player in a team sport ever won anything on their own including Joe, Connor or Henry. Every player on a county panel that gives his time to it should be treated the same. At least at present they all get the same expenses. The sport has joint rights with the player to sponsorship because without either there would be none.
If the GAA were to go pro or semi pro and I am not convinced they should, a system that works, is fair and protects both the game and players at all levels can be done. One thing I am convinced of as it is going with the inequities now it will lose its appeal in areas. You pointed out the strong areas but without everyone else they will be just playing each other. Plenty of food for thought.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 27/03/2020 14:29:10
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