National Forum

Rugbys Attitude To Retaliation

(Oldest Posts First)


i laughed on sunday when owen farrell had cj stander by the leg and cj gave him a few digs.
farrell moaned to the referee and said "you started it".
in gaa,both would have been booked.
in my view there is always an agressor and he only should be booked.
in gaa,you can wrestle a lad to the ground and the referee will book you both.
this is complete nonsense and has to stop.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 26/02/2020 13:31:45    2270305

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Replying To perfect10:  "i laughed on sunday when owen farrell had cj stander by the leg and cj gave him a few digs.
farrell moaned to the referee and said "you started it".
in gaa,both would have been booked.
in my view there is always an agressor and he only should be booked.
in gaa,you can wrestle a lad to the ground and the referee will book you both.
this is complete nonsense and has to stop."
Would cj have broken laws of game if not held? No. All too often you have in GAA refs giving 2 yellows for incidents when one would suffice
GAA need to help referees more and supporters, coaches players etc need to trust in officials way more as they dont at all right now

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 26/02/2020 13:42:44    2270306

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Replying To perfect10:  "i laughed on sunday when owen farrell had cj stander by the leg and cj gave him a few digs.
farrell moaned to the referee and said "you started it".
in gaa,both would have been booked.
in my view there is always an agressor and he only should be booked.
in gaa,you can wrestle a lad to the ground and the referee will book you both.
this is complete nonsense and has to stop."
An awful lot of that boils down to lazy refereeing and substandard umpires/linesmen . The referee has only one set of eyes and doesn't get enough help from the rest of his officials.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1911 - 26/02/2020 13:59:45    2270309

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Replying To perfect10:  "i laughed on sunday when owen farrell had cj stander by the leg and cj gave him a few digs.
farrell moaned to the referee and said "you started it".
in gaa,both would have been booked.
in my view there is always an agressor and he only should be booked.
in gaa,you can wrestle a lad to the ground and the referee will book you both.
this is complete nonsense and has to stop."
good observation and I totally agree. though the trouble is without TMO to review how can you ever be sure who started what. We are back to the old problem that despite 7 pairs of eyes watching a match (8 if you count the 4th official) 99% of incidents should be spotted, but then again I dont think we will ever hear the end of "come on lines man do your job" and "you saw that linesman" and then you wait and you wait and surprise surprise nothing happens and the play goes on and the tension in the linesman's shoulders builds as he feels the derision behind him !! ah good times

KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 334 - 26/02/2020 14:15:11    2270312

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The first problem in any sport is if the ref is unsighted, he cannot impose a penalty for something he didn't see, so he must consult with his linesmen/umpires. If he doesn't do this, he simply shouldn't be a ref. If he does it and gets the wrong info he should apply the rules based on the advice he is given. But if in the case of poor ref's who apply this book both standard they really need to be rooted out of the game. We have seen high profile players being sent off and sometimes the violations over turned rightly so. But ref's have to consult there is an instigator (and remember sledging is a black card).

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 26/02/2020 15:49:31    2270329

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Replying To Bon:  "An awful lot of that boils down to lazy refereeing and substandard umpires/linesmen . The referee has only one set of eyes and doesn't get enough help from the rest of his officials."
Maybe much more of it 'boils down' to the attitude of players and management. There have been several instances in recent games where players, either on their own initiative or maybe on advice from the line, have got 'involved' with an opponent already on a yellow card. Drawing the yellow cards in this instance is seen as good game management.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 26/02/2020 16:54:24    2270342

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Yes but the ref on Sunday's rugby match had access to video playback. IHaving watched the playback he was in a position to make that call. In GAA the ref has no such resource. Also, it's difficult for a linesman to spot every incident on a pitch when there may be 2-3 flashpoints kicking off simultaneously.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 26/02/2020 19:54:25    2270376

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Replying To arock:  "The first problem in any sport is if the ref is unsighted, he cannot impose a penalty for something he didn't see, so he must consult with his linesmen/umpires. If he doesn't do this, he simply shouldn't be a ref. If he does it and gets the wrong info he should apply the rules based on the advice he is given. But if in the case of poor ref's who apply this book both standard they really need to be rooted out of the game. We have seen high profile players being sent off and sometimes the violations over turned rightly so. But ref's have to consult there is an instigator (and remember sledging is a black card)."
if he doesn't see it then dont book anyone.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 26/02/2020 21:03:53    2270386

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The GAA refs are amateur and get very little help..people need to stop putting rugby on a pedestal in this country the media and PR machine con a lot of people. Remember when bod nearly got his neck broken in NZ lions tour and nothing was done?? Most people cant understand half the calls refs make in a game of rugby

brisbane (Galway) - Posts: 674 - 26/02/2020 21:14:45    2270389

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Are we saying a red for Dinny Allen then and just a talking to from the ref for Paidi O'Se?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/02/2020 22:05:58    2270398

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Replying To brisbane:  "The GAA refs are amateur and get very little help..people need to stop putting rugby on a pedestal in this country the media and PR machine con a lot of people. Remember when bod nearly got his neck broken in NZ lions tour and nothing was done?? Most people cant understand half the calls refs make in a game of rugby"
Haha delusion here is unreal. Yes I Driscoll spear in 2005 was poor but if you have to go back to 2005 then it doesnt say much for your argument.
Saying most cant understand half calls in a game of rugby is plainly untrue

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 26/02/2020 23:11:02    2270410

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Replying To Soma:  "Are we saying a red for Dinny Allen then and just a talking to from the ref for Paidi O'Se?"
would have no problem,once the retaliation is not bigger than the original crime.
there is always an instigator.a punch deserves one back.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 28/02/2020 12:22:08    2270660

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Haha delusion here is unreal. Yes I Driscoll spear in 2005 was poor but if you have to go back to 2005 then it doesnt say much for your argument.
Saying most cant understand half calls in a game of rugby is plainly untrue"
That's just a famous example
Rugby is a game of hype, I wouldn't take any of their standards and bluster
A bull in a china shop and slick marketing is the best that can be said about this pumped up back slapping non sport.

Setantawatchl (Cavan) - Posts: 132 - 28/02/2020 13:47:34    2270688

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Replying To Setantawatchl:  "That's just a famous example
Rugby is a game of hype, I wouldn't take any of their standards and bluster
A bull in a china shop and slick marketing is the best that can be said about this pumped up back slapping non sport."
Non sport? I can understand someone disliking a sport, for whatever reason; but to say rugby is not a sport is ridiculousness. Maybe you should pay a visit to here:

http://www.countycavanrugby.com/the-club/club-history

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2477 - 28/02/2020 15:00:36    2270701

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Replying To perfect10:  "i laughed on sunday when owen farrell had cj stander by the leg and cj gave him a few digs.
farrell moaned to the referee and said "you started it".
in gaa,both would have been booked.
in my view there is always an agressor and he only should be booked.
in gaa,you can wrestle a lad to the ground and the referee will book you both.
this is complete nonsense and has to stop."
Why all the talk of this now? I said before there was no outcry when Lee Keegan wrestled Sean Cavanagh to the ground a couple of years back. What happened? Sean got sent off for second yellow and Lee got an All-star.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2014 - 28/02/2020 15:50:58    2270709

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Why all the talk of this now? I said before there was no outcry when Lee Keegan wrestled Sean Cavanagh to the ground a couple of years back. What happened? Sean got sent off for second yellow and Lee got an All-star."
Mayo are sound though. Tyrone well you know........

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 591 - 28/02/2020 16:24:58    2270717

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Replying To SamandLiamSoon:  "Mayo are sound though. Tyrone well you know........"
Go on, spit it out. We can take it.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2014 - 28/02/2020 21:31:43    2270751

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Haha delusion here is unreal. Yes I Driscoll spear in 2005 was poor but if you have to go back to 2005 then it doesnt say much for your argument.
Saying most cant understand half calls in a game of rugby is plainly untrue"
Maro itoje literately grabed 2 irish players and held onto them for ages he literately took the jersey off cj stander and nothing was done.

Also in the last game pundits and ex pros could not agree what was going on in the scrum or the clear out. Was grange scrumming illegally? was Ryans clear outs illegal? Remember Italy/England when oshea was in charge even the english players did not know the rules.

brisbane (Galway) - Posts: 674 - 01/03/2020 10:08:30    2271044

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Replying To brisbane:  "Maro itoje literately grabed 2 irish players and held onto them for ages he literately took the jersey off cj stander and nothing was done.

Also in the last game pundits and ex pros could not agree what was going on in the scrum or the clear out. Was grange scrumming illegally? was Ryans clear outs illegal? Remember Italy/England when oshea was in charge even the english players did not know the rules."
Most of that is irrelevant
On italy/England. That was an obscure law that few would know about and laws were changed immediately after to stop that from happening again

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 01/03/2020 12:37:04    2271100

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Replying To brisbane:  "Maro itoje literately grabed 2 irish players and held onto them for ages he literately took the jersey off cj stander and nothing was done.

Also in the last game pundits and ex pros could not agree what was going on in the scrum or the clear out. Was grange scrumming illegally? was Ryans clear outs illegal? Remember Italy/England when oshea was in charge even the english players did not know the rules."
Most of that is irrelevant
On italy/England. That was an obscure law that few would know about and laws were changed immediately after to stop that from happening again

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 01/03/2020 12:37:04    2271101

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