Replying To lilywhite1:  "I second that. Excellent post furlong. Your stats re the Land Commission in kildare are 100% correct."

Replying To essmac:  "There'll be more bite in Meath come championship time; but overall not much to put a spring in the step of either county's fans. Tyrone are fit enough and savvy enough to put up a decent showing in most games, but I just don't see spectators leaving grounds buzzing with optimism they way they were after eg watching the likes of Dooher producing a performance for the ages against was it Donegal a few years back when the crowd all rose to their feet and applauded when he was taken off a few minutes before the end. You saw certain performances even early on in the year and you knew that, barring injuries or a complete catastrophe, the team had an intensity and a will to win about them and had as good a chance as anyone of going all the way. Tyrone just are not at that level any more. Last year, I'd say we were one good forward away (saying nothing about selections), but this year we're missing 2-3 impact players / leaders."

Replying To royaldunne:  "I really hope furlong keeps a list of all these. Honestly theirs a publisher out there who should get onto this stuff and get it published. The attention to detail and equation to counties fortunes is second to none. There's a book in furlong and honestly man I really really think you should consider writing one."

Replying To 11jm11:  "Excellent post Furlong. Even as a Kildare man I find your posts great to read.
My own post was of course designed to wind up Meath posters, I know meaths success isn't solely based on an influx of people as a result of the land commission even though it did have a massive impact on the teams Meath produced from 1960 onwards.
We too had many families move into the county from Galway, Mayo, Roscommon Kerry and Clare. In my own area, not too far from the Meath border, many of the farmers would be of Kerry stock. Around TImahoe, Staplestown, Coill Dubh many of the people are from Tipperary originally and came to work with Bord na Mona on the bogs from the 1950s onwards. It should come as no surprise therefore that hurling is as popular as football in these areas. Most if not all of these new arrivals were GAA people however Kildare have obviously not achieved anywhere near the same level of success as Meath and you would have to wonder why. I do remember in the 80s, there was a huge apathy towards the county team to the extent that management of minor teams would have difficutly getting enough lads to commit to a county squad. There was simply no desire to play for Kildare for lads from many clubs. Club football was the be all and end all for many in Kildare for a long long time. Things have changed now, we have hundreds of young lads vying for places on county teams year in year out at all ages.
Of course people from Kildare will never admit to it but deep down we are naturally envious of the success that Meath have had going back. It has been 21 years since Meath lifted Sam and to be perfectly honest, I think Meath are still a long long way off the top teams and I would have the current Kildare squad quite a bit ahead of the current Meath squad. That being said, Meath have gotten their house in order at underage in recent years and in my view, theres no reason why Meath cannot get back to the very top by 2030 or so. It's a huge footballing county, with a big and growing population with the resources to compete. Tradition counts for a lot and Meath have it in abundance. I'd be optimistic Kildare can get to the top too due to our large population and our underage structures which have been baring fruit for the last 8 or 9 years. We have produced better footballers in the last 10 years than in a long long time.
What odds on a Kildare Meath All Ireland Final in the next 15 to 20 years? It would be great to see especially for people living along the border in Clonard, Broadford, Longwood, Johnstownbridge, Enfield, Summerhill, Kilcock, Kilcloon and Maynooth."

Replying To bdbuddah:  "Ya, they got to the last 8 that year, same as Meath got to the last 8 last year. It's really irrating to see Kildare posters coming on to a forum involving Meath (& not Kildare) to try to slag Meath off for our performance in Division 1. They are in no position to do this based on their own record when in the same position."

Replying To The_Fonz:  "It's an open forum, and Meath supporters are well able to sow the boot when it's on the other foot."

Replying To bdbuddah:  "If Kildare were playing a division 1 first round league match where Meath were not affected I would have little interest in commenting (or if I'm honest in reading). It shows a real small team mentailty."

Replying To Furlong1949:  "Thanks for the comments 11jm11. I appreciate them.

There is a real proper rivalry between Meath and kildare always has been, but since 1997 and after 2000 it probaly has become the best rivalry in leinster football. Meath rivalry with Dublin is now a nostalgia trip , kildare v Meath is a proper rivalry. And in Meath we need rivalries , always did going back to louth and Cavan in the 40s and 50s and Offaly in 60s and Dublin in 80s and 90s we are county that is built on rivalries.

I am big believer in gaa rivals push each other on. Armagh win. Sam in 02 for the first time , Tyrone win 03. Mayo reach the finals in 96 and 97. And then Galway in 98. You look at Tipp and kilkenny in hurling in last 15 years how that rivalry has been central to both counties sucess. Meath and kildare have copied each others sucess in last 20 year. Pretty much both have being in the same situation. If one of the counties were to make the breakthrough, I think it would push the other on. Say kildare went up and stayed in div 1 next season. I could see that pushing Meath on and Meath doing the same. If Meath were to stay this year , I could see kildare coming up next year and staying up. If one of the counties were to make the breaktbrough, it would be massive and would give encouragement to push the other on and other teams in leinster also.

Meath and kildare might not realise this but are in a battle together to take on Dublin in leinster. The days of Kildare team on its own or a Meath team on its own or an Offaly team on its own taking down Dublin are long gone. Its going to take 2 or 3 teams in leinster to take down Dublin. Both supporters might not like to hear this but my gut feeling is Meath need a strong kildare and kildare need a strong Meath. Both together can take on Dublin but not its on their own. But Dublin since 2010 are a different animal.to Dublin prior to 2010.

I do believe Meath and kildare will be stronger in the next 15 to 20 years. Both have got their act togethet at underage even though kildare got their act together earlier then Meath. But with east leinster project I think this can be huge benefit for both counties. Kildare and Meath had 3 full time coachs up to last year , they now have 22 full time coachs each this year.Its still lags behind Dublins 60 plus. But these new coachs and the plan on the ground in both counties is following Dublin blueprint for sucess. Seamus kenny in Meath and ca hap called Flanagan a kildare man from Johnstownbridge who is I think member of leinstet council , are doing great work in this area..And according to kenny he believes in 5 to 6 years time you will see an impact at senior level. There is real work being done in both counties. Dublins sucess has forced both counties to get their act together. I can see Meath kildare and louth and Wicklow being strong at underage in leinster in 2020s because of the east leinster project. There is grounds for optimism.

Of course there is this pop explosion in both counties. In the 90s both counties were around 100000 mark. When Meath played Mayo in 96 , Mayo had a bigger population. Both now have doubled since 2000 and are at the 200000 mark. Presently it has not benefited both counties one bit. If anything its being a negative. But in the future if both counties can tap into that growth in pop it will be a gamechanger. Look at Dublin its sucess is built on new sucessful clubs in the south suburbs of Kilmacud crokes , Ballyboden and Cuala. The growth of gaa populatity in southside suburbs has had a huge part to play in Dublins sucess. Meath and kildare suburbia could have the same effect in the future. The growth in population could be a massive boost for both counties.

And yes Meath v kildare All Ireland final in the next 30 years is not as impossible as one thinks. Imagine the crack around Maynooth and kilcock then. It would be mighty. There has only ever been 4 neighbouring counties in All Ireland final eg Meath v Cavan 1952 , Offaly v Galway 1971, Tyrone v Armgh 03 and kerry v Cork 09. What about Meath v kildare All Ireland final in 2032.Stranger things have happened

But I do get feeling that Meath and kildare is entering a new stage in rivalry I can see over the next 10 to 15 years allot of big matchs between both teams. Regards your point kildare have stronger panel then Meath , I get the sense this goes back to the two hammerings kildare gave Meath in 2017. But what I would say about that is that was a completely different Meath team. About 10 of the players who started v kildare in 2017 and 4 or 5 of the subs are not on the Meath panel.anymore. I personally think there is very between the teams , kildare were ahead of Meath in 2018 and Meath were ahead kildare in 2019. But I dont think there is much between the team and if they played 10 times , Meath would win 5 kildare would win 5. Both are at the same level just outside the top 6 and 7 trying to breaking into div 1 permanently.

Actually both teams strenght is the other teams weakness. Kildare have quality forwards eg Flynn, Hyland , McCormack, Kelly. Better then the Meath forwards. But Meath have a good quality defenders eg Keoghan McGill Harnan Lavin Gallagher. Better then the kildare defenders. If you put the Meath defence with the kildare forwards and put Feehily and Menton at midfield you actually would have a team.that would break into 5 or 6 and be competitive v Dublin. Meath need to find more quality forward , hopefully young Walsh will be one. I think he will be. And kildare need to find more quality defenders. Which is a new thread in that Meath traditionally had quality forwards while kildare traditionally had quality defenders. The kildare team of 90s was built on a great defence with great defenders eg Dalton , Ryan , Rainbow , Finn , Lacey. So i definately feel both counties are entering a more progressive and positive era but time will tell.

Just regards kildare awakening in the 90s. Yes Dwyer was a big influence and great players like Ryan and Earley also were hugely important. But I felt what kickstarted everything for kildare was larry Tompkins lifting Sam Maguire in 1990. Larry is a kildare born and reared and played for kildare
And I think seen a kildare man become one of the best footballers in Ireland and lift Sam Maguire along with Shea Fahey showed kildare footballers could win All Irelands . I think Tompkins sucess with Cork was a very positive development and had a positive knock on effect on kildare gaa morale. Of course Dwyer also was the turning point and a generation of leaders like Ryan were the deciding factors , but I just always felt that Larry with Cork had a very positive knock on effect..Prior to 1990 there was little interest in the county team, but Micko came in and it exploded. What I remeber most was the 4 games between both counties in 1997 and 98 that will live long in the memory , especially the game of the decade in 97..The greatest game I ever attended. And attending 1998 kerry v kildare semi final and seem the hill. all in white. I had seen the hill in blue and green and red but never white and even as Meath man, I have to admit it was some sight. I ended up in Maynooth that night and it was some night , they were dancing on the table well into the early morning. Those years 1996 to 2004 when Dublin Meath kildare Offaly laois and Westmeath were magical years. Leinster was the centre of the football world. It really has fallen since.

If you just look at leinster teams in div 1 since 2000 it appalling. Its tells the full story since 2000. No leinster team has reached a div 1 final since loais in the mid 00s outside Dublin. leaving Dublin to one side no leinster team has won div 1 league title since 1998 , 22 years ago.when Offaly won. Dublin have not faced any opposition consistently from leinster since the 90s
.
Meath have been in div 1 , 2 times in the last 20 years. kildare have been in div 4 times in the last 20 years. Offaly , Westmeath and laois have been in div 1 two times in last 20 years and that it. Meath went 13 years without being in div 1 til this year. And kildare were in div 1 , 1 year in 13 years between 2000 and 2013 eg 2007. In the last 15 years only one leinster team outside Dublin has stayed in div 1 that was kildare in 2012 2013 under McGeeney. This has to change in the 20s. If not leinster football will continue in its state of decline."

Replying To Furlong1949:  "Thanks for the comments 11jm11. I appreciate them.

There is a real proper rivalry between Meath and kildare always has been, but since 1997 and after 2000 it probaly has become the best rivalry in leinster football. Meath rivalry with Dublin is now a nostalgia trip , kildare v Meath is a proper rivalry. And in Meath we need rivalries , always did going back to louth and Cavan in the 40s and 50s and Offaly in 60s and Dublin in 80s and 90s we are county that is built on rivalries.

I am big believer in gaa rivals push each other on. Armagh win. Sam in 02 for the first time , Tyrone win 03. Mayo reach the finals in 96 and 97. And then Galway in 98. You look at Tipp and kilkenny in hurling in last 15 years how that rivalry has been central to both counties sucess. Meath and kildare have copied each others sucess in last 20 year. Pretty much both have being in the same situation. If one of the counties were to make the breakthrough, I think it would push the other on. Say kildare went up and stayed in div 1 next season. I could see that pushing Meath on and Meath doing the same. If Meath were to stay this year , I could see kildare coming up next year and staying up. If one of the counties were to make the breaktbrough, it would be massive and would give encouragement to push the other on and other teams in leinster also.

Meath and kildare might not realise this but are in a battle together to take on Dublin in leinster. The days of Kildare team on its own or a Meath team on its own or an Offaly team on its own taking down Dublin are long gone. Its going to take 2 or 3 teams in leinster to take down Dublin. Both supporters might not like to hear this but my gut feeling is Meath need a strong kildare and kildare need a strong Meath. Both together can take on Dublin but not its on their own. But Dublin since 2010 are a different animal.to Dublin prior to 2010.

I do believe Meath and kildare will be stronger in the next 15 to 20 years. Both have got their act togethet at underage even though kildare got their act together earlier then Meath. But with east leinster project I think this can be huge benefit for both counties. Kildare and Meath had 3 full time coachs up to last year , they now have 22 full time coachs each this year.Its still lags behind Dublins 60 plus. But these new coachs and the plan on the ground in both counties is following Dublin blueprint for sucess. Seamus kenny in Meath and ca hap called Flanagan a kildare man from Johnstownbridge who is I think member of leinstet council , are doing great work in this area..And according to kenny he believes in 5 to 6 years time you will see an impact at senior level. There is real work being done in both counties. Dublins sucess has forced both counties to get their act together. I can see Meath kildare and louth and Wicklow being strong at underage in leinster in 2020s because of the east leinster project. There is grounds for optimism.

Of course there is this pop explosion in both counties. In the 90s both counties were around 100000 mark. When Meath played Mayo in 96 , Mayo had a bigger population. Both now have doubled since 2000 and are at the 200000 mark. Presently it has not benefited both counties one bit. If anything its being a negative. But in the future if both counties can tap into that growth in pop it will be a gamechanger. Look at Dublin its sucess is built on new sucessful clubs in the south suburbs of Kilmacud crokes , Ballyboden and Cuala. The growth of gaa populatity in southside suburbs has had a huge part to play in Dublins sucess. Meath and kildare suburbia could have the same effect in the future. The growth in population could be a massive boost for both counties.

And yes Meath v kildare All Ireland final in the next 30 years is not as impossible as one thinks. Imagine the crack around Maynooth and kilcock then. It would be mighty. There has only ever been 4 neighbouring counties in All Ireland final eg Meath v Cavan 1952 , Offaly v Galway 1971, Tyrone v Armgh 03 and kerry v Cork 09. What about Meath v kildare All Ireland final in 2032.Stranger things have happened

But I do get feeling that Meath and kildare is entering a new stage in rivalry I can see over the next 10 to 15 years allot of big matchs between both teams. Regards your point kildare have stronger panel then Meath , I get the sense this goes back to the two hammerings kildare gave Meath in 2017. But what I would say about that is that was a completely different Meath team. About 10 of the players who started v kildare in 2017 and 4 or 5 of the subs are not on the Meath panel.anymore. I personally think there is very between the teams , kildare were ahead of Meath in 2018 and Meath were ahead kildare in 2019. But I dont think there is much between the team and if they played 10 times , Meath would win 5 kildare would win 5. Both are at the same level just outside the top 6 and 7 trying to breaking into div 1 permanently.

Actually both teams strenght is the other teams weakness. Kildare have quality forwards eg Flynn, Hyland , McCormack, Kelly. Better then the Meath forwards. But Meath have a good quality defenders eg Keoghan McGill Harnan Lavin Gallagher. Better then the kildare defenders. If you put the Meath defence with the kildare forwards and put Feehily and Menton at midfield you actually would have a team.that would break into 5 or 6 and be competitive v Dublin. Meath need to find more quality forward , hopefully young Walsh will be one. I think he will be. And kildare need to find more quality defenders. Which is a new thread in that Meath traditionally had quality forwards while kildare traditionally had quality defenders. The kildare team of 90s was built on a great defence with great defenders eg Dalton , Ryan , Rainbow , Finn , Lacey. So i definately feel both counties are entering a more progressive and positive era but time will tell.

Just regards kildare awakening in the 90s. Yes Dwyer was a big influence and great players like Ryan and Earley also were hugely important. But I felt what kickstarted everything for kildare was larry Tompkins lifting Sam Maguire in 1990. Larry is a kildare born and reared and played for kildare
And I think seen a kildare man become one of the best footballers in Ireland and lift Sam Maguire along with Shea Fahey showed kildare footballers could win All Irelands . I think Tompkins sucess with Cork was a very positive development and had a positive knock on effect on kildare gaa morale. Of course Dwyer also was the turning point and a generation of leaders like Ryan were the deciding factors , but I just always felt that Larry with Cork had a very positive knock on effect..Prior to 1990 there was little interest in the county team, but Micko came in and it exploded. What I remeber most was the 4 games between both counties in 1997 and 98 that will live long in the memory , especially the game of the decade in 97..The greatest game I ever attended. And attending 1998 kerry v kildare semi final and seem the hill. all in white. I had seen the hill in blue and green and red but never white and even as Meath man, I have to admit it was some sight. I ended up in Maynooth that night and it was some night , they were dancing on the table well into the early morning. Those years 1996 to 2004 when Dublin Meath kildare Offaly laois and Westmeath were magical years. Leinster was the centre of the football world. It really has fallen since.

If you just look at leinster teams in div 1 since 2000 it appalling. Its tells the full story since 2000. No leinster team has reached a div 1 final since loais in the mid 00s outside Dublin. leaving Dublin to one side no leinster team has won div 1 league title since 1998 , 22 years ago.when Offaly won. Dublin have not faced any opposition consistently from leinster since the 90s
.
Meath have been in div 1 , 2 times in the last 20 years. kildare have been in div 4 times in the last 20 years. Offaly , Westmeath and laois have been in div 1 two times in last 20 years and that it. Meath went 13 years without being in div 1 til this year. And kildare were in div 1 , 1 year in 13 years between 2000 and 2013 eg 2007. In the last 15 years only one leinster team outside Dublin has stayed in div 1 that was kildare in 2012 2013 under McGeeney. This has to change in the 20s. If not leinster football will continue in its state of decline."

Replying To Furlong1949:  "Thanks for the comments 11jm11. I appreciate them.

There is a real proper rivalry between Meath and kildare always has been, but since 1997 and after 2000 it probaly has become the best rivalry in leinster football. Meath rivalry with Dublin is now a nostalgia trip , kildare v Meath is a proper rivalry. And in Meath we need rivalries , always did going back to louth and Cavan in the 40s and 50s and Offaly in 60s and Dublin in 80s and 90s we are county that is built on rivalries.

I am big believer in gaa rivals push each other on. Armagh win. Sam in 02 for the first time , Tyrone win 03. Mayo reach the finals in 96 and 97. And then Galway in 98. You look at Tipp and kilkenny in hurling in last 15 years how that rivalry has been central to both counties sucess. Meath and kildare have copied each others sucess in last 20 year. Pretty much both have being in the same situation. If one of the counties were to make the breakthrough, I think it would push the other on. Say kildare went up and stayed in div 1 next season. I could see that pushing Meath on and Meath doing the same. If Meath were to stay this year , I could see kildare coming up next year and staying up. If one of the counties were to make the breaktbrough, it would be massive and would give encouragement to push the other on and other teams in leinster also.

Meath and kildare might not realise this but are in a battle together to take on Dublin in leinster. The days of Kildare team on its own or a Meath team on its own or an Offaly team on its own taking down Dublin are long gone. Its going to take 2 or 3 teams in leinster to take down Dublin. Both supporters might not like to hear this but my gut feeling is Meath need a strong kildare and kildare need a strong Meath. Both together can take on Dublin but not its on their own. But Dublin since 2010 are a different animal.to Dublin prior to 2010.

I do believe Meath and kildare will be stronger in the next 15 to 20 years. Both have got their act togethet at underage even though kildare got their act together earlier then Meath. But with east leinster project I think this can be huge benefit for both counties. Kildare and Meath had 3 full time coachs up to last year , they now have 22 full time coachs each this year.Its still lags behind Dublins 60 plus. But these new coachs and the plan on the ground in both counties is following Dublin blueprint for sucess. Seamus kenny in Meath and ca hap called Flanagan a kildare man from Johnstownbridge who is I think member of leinstet council , are doing great work in this area..And according to kenny he believes in 5 to 6 years time you will see an impact at senior level. There is real work being done in both counties. Dublins sucess has forced both counties to get their act together. I can see Meath kildare and louth and Wicklow being strong at underage in leinster in 2020s because of the east leinster project. There is grounds for optimism.

Of course there is this pop explosion in both counties. In the 90s both counties were around 100000 mark. When Meath played Mayo in 96 , Mayo had a bigger population. Both now have doubled since 2000 and are at the 200000 mark. Presently it has not benefited both counties one bit. If anything its being a negative. But in the future if both counties can tap into that growth in pop it will be a gamechanger. Look at Dublin its sucess is built on new sucessful clubs in the south suburbs of Kilmacud crokes , Ballyboden and Cuala. The growth of gaa populatity in southside suburbs has had a huge part to play in Dublins sucess. Meath and kildare suburbia could have the same effect in the future. The growth in population could be a massive boost for both counties.

And yes Meath v kildare All Ireland final in the next 30 years is not as impossible as one thinks. Imagine the crack around Maynooth and kilcock then. It would be mighty. There has only ever been 4 neighbouring counties in All Ireland final eg Meath v Cavan 1952 , Offaly v Galway 1971, Tyrone v Armgh 03 and kerry v Cork 09. What about Meath v kildare All Ireland final in 2032.Stranger things have happened

But I do get feeling that Meath and kildare is entering a new stage in rivalry I can see over the next 10 to 15 years allot of big matchs between both teams. Regards your point kildare have stronger panel then Meath , I get the sense this goes back to the two hammerings kildare gave Meath in 2017. But what I would say about that is that was a completely different Meath team. About 10 of the players who started v kildare in 2017 and 4 or 5 of the subs are not on the Meath panel.anymore. I personally think there is very between the teams , kildare were ahead of Meath in 2018 and Meath were ahead kildare in 2019. But I dont think there is much between the team and if they played 10 times , Meath would win 5 kildare would win 5. Both are at the same level just outside the top 6 and 7 trying to breaking into div 1 permanently.

Actually both teams strenght is the other teams weakness. Kildare have quality forwards eg Flynn, Hyland , McCormack, Kelly. Better then the Meath forwards. But Meath have a good quality defenders eg Keoghan McGill Harnan Lavin Gallagher. Better then the kildare defenders. If you put the Meath defence with the kildare forwards and put Feehily and Menton at midfield you actually would have a team.that would break into 5 or 6 and be competitive v Dublin. Meath need to find more quality forward , hopefully young Walsh will be one. I think he will be. And kildare need to find more quality defenders. Which is a new thread in that Meath traditionally had quality forwards while kildare traditionally had quality defenders. The kildare team of 90s was built on a great defence with great defenders eg Dalton , Ryan , Rainbow , Finn , Lacey. So i definately feel both counties are entering a more progressive and positive era but time will tell.

Just regards kildare awakening in the 90s. Yes Dwyer was a big influence and great players like Ryan and Earley also were hugely important. But I felt what kickstarted everything for kildare was larry Tompkins lifting Sam Maguire in 1990. Larry is a kildare born and reared and played for kildare
And I think seen a kildare man become one of the best footballers in Ireland and lift Sam Maguire along with Shea Fahey showed kildare footballers could win All Irelands . I think Tompkins sucess with Cork was a very positive development and had a positive knock on effect on kildare gaa morale. Of course Dwyer also was the turning point and a generation of leaders like Ryan were the deciding factors , but I just always felt that Larry with Cork had a very positive knock on effect..Prior to 1990 there was little interest in the county team, but Micko came in and it exploded. What I remeber most was the 4 games between both counties in 1997 and 98 that will live long in the memory , especially the game of the decade in 97..The greatest game I ever attended. And attending 1998 kerry v kildare semi final and seem the hill. all in white. I had seen the hill in blue and green and red but never white and even as Meath man, I have to admit it was some sight. I ended up in Maynooth that night and it was some night , they were dancing on the table well into the early morning. Those years 1996 to 2004 when Dublin Meath kildare Offaly laois and Westmeath were magical years. Leinster was the centre of the football world. It really has fallen since.

If you just look at leinster teams in div 1 since 2000 it appalling. Its tells the full story since 2000. No leinster team has reached a div 1 final since loais in the mid 00s outside Dublin. leaving Dublin to one side no leinster team has won div 1 league title since 1998 , 22 years ago.when Offaly won. Dublin have not faced any opposition consistently from leinster since the 90s
.
Meath have been in div 1 , 2 times in the last 20 years. kildare have been in div 4 times in the last 20 years. Offaly , Westmeath and laois have been in div 1 two times in last 20 years and that it. Meath went 13 years without being in div 1 til this year. And kildare were in div 1 , 1 year in 13 years between 2000 and 2013 eg 2007. In the last 15 years only one leinster team outside Dublin has stayed in div 1 that was kildare in 2012 2013 under McGeeney. This has to change in the 20s. If not leinster football will continue in its state of decline."

Replying To bdbuddah:  "Quick question Furlong which you may know due to your knowledge of Meath/ Kildare football. Before the Seanie Johnston affair Mick O'Dwyer famously brought in outside players to Kildare to help them win Leinster (Karl O'Dwyer/ Brian Murphy/ Karl Lacey that I can think of off the top of my head). I have heard people saying that this renewed an old Kildare tradition, their teams long ago who won trophy's had plenty of outsiders also (due to soldiers from all over the country being based in the Curragh army camp). It's something I have oscasionally heard casually said without hearing much detail. How common was it for army men from other parts of the country to play for Kildare back then or is this a bit of a myth ?"

Replying To Furlong1949:  "Thanks for the comments 11jm11. I appreciate them.

There is a real proper rivalry between Meath and kildare always has been, but since 1997 and after 2000 it probaly has become the best rivalry in leinster football. Meath rivalry with Dublin is now a nostalgia trip , kildare v Meath is a proper rivalry. And in Meath we need rivalries , always did going back to louth and Cavan in the 40s and 50s and Offaly in 60s and Dublin in 80s and 90s we are county that is built on rivalries.

I am big believer in gaa rivals push each other on. Armagh win. Sam in 02 for the first time , Tyrone win 03. Mayo reach the finals in 96 and 97. And then Galway in 98. You look at Tipp and kilkenny in hurling in last 15 years how that rivalry has been central to both counties sucess. Meath and kildare have copied each others sucess in last 20 year. Pretty much both have being in the same situation. If one of the counties were to make the breakthrough, I think it would push the other on. Say kildare went up and stayed in div 1 next season. I could see that pushing Meath on and Meath doing the same. If Meath were to stay this year , I could see kildare coming up next year and staying up. If one of the counties were to make the breaktbrough, it would be massive and would give encouragement to push the other on and other teams in leinster also.

Meath and kildare might not realise this but are in a battle together to take on Dublin in leinster. The days of Kildare team on its own or a Meath team on its own or an Offaly team on its own taking down Dublin are long gone. Its going to take 2 or 3 teams in leinster to take down Dublin. Both supporters might not like to hear this but my gut feeling is Meath need a strong kildare and kildare need a strong Meath. Both together can take on Dublin but not its on their own. But Dublin since 2010 are a different animal.to Dublin prior to 2010.

I do believe Meath and kildare will be stronger in the next 15 to 20 years. Both have got their act togethet at underage even though kildare got their act together earlier then Meath. But with east leinster project I think this can be huge benefit for both counties. Kildare and Meath had 3 full time coachs up to last year , they now have 22 full time coachs each this year.Its still lags behind Dublins 60 plus. But these new coachs and the plan on the ground in both counties is following Dublin blueprint for sucess. Seamus kenny in Meath and ca hap called Flanagan a kildare man from Johnstownbridge who is I think member of leinstet council , are doing great work in this area..And according to kenny he believes in 5 to 6 years time you will see an impact at senior level. There is real work being done in both counties. Dublins sucess has forced both counties to get their act together. I can see Meath kildare and louth and Wicklow being strong at underage in leinster in 2020s because of the east leinster project. There is grounds for optimism.

Of course there is this pop explosion in both counties. In the 90s both counties were around 100000 mark. When Meath played Mayo in 96 , Mayo had a bigger population. Both now have doubled since 2000 and are at the 200000 mark. Presently it has not benefited both counties one bit. If anything its being a negative. But in the future if both counties can tap into that growth in pop it will be a gamechanger. Look at Dublin its sucess is built on new sucessful clubs in the south suburbs of Kilmacud crokes , Ballyboden and Cuala. The growth of gaa populatity in southside suburbs has had a huge part to play in Dublins sucess. Meath and kildare suburbia could have the same effect in the future. The growth in population could be a massive boost for both counties.

And yes Meath v kildare All Ireland final in the next 30 years is not as impossible as one thinks. Imagine the crack around Maynooth and kilcock then. It would be mighty. There has only ever been 4 neighbouring counties in All Ireland final eg Meath v Cavan 1952 , Offaly v Galway 1971, Tyrone v Armgh 03 and kerry v Cork 09. What about Meath v kildare All Ireland final in 2032.Stranger things have happened

But I do get feeling that Meath and kildare is entering a new stage in rivalry I can see over the next 10 to 15 years allot of big matchs between both teams. Regards your point kildare have stronger panel then Meath , I get the sense this goes back to the two hammerings kildare gave Meath in 2017. But what I would say about that is that was a completely different Meath team. About 10 of the players who started v kildare in 2017 and 4 or 5 of the subs are not on the Meath panel.anymore. I personally think there is very between the teams , kildare were ahead of Meath in 2018 and Meath were ahead kildare in 2019. But I dont think there is much between the team and if they played 10 times , Meath would win 5 kildare would win 5. Both are at the same level just outside the top 6 and 7 trying to breaking into div 1 permanently.

Actually both teams strenght is the other teams weakness. Kildare have quality forwards eg Flynn, Hyland , McCormack, Kelly. Better then the Meath forwards. But Meath have a good quality defenders eg Keoghan McGill Harnan Lavin Gallagher. Better then the kildare defenders. If you put the Meath defence with the kildare forwards and put Feehily and Menton at midfield you actually would have a team.that would break into 5 or 6 and be competitive v Dublin. Meath need to find more quality forward , hopefully young Walsh will be one. I think he will be. And kildare need to find more quality defenders. Which is a new thread in that Meath traditionally had quality forwards while kildare traditionally had quality defenders. The kildare team of 90s was built on a great defence with great defenders eg Dalton , Ryan , Rainbow , Finn , Lacey. So i definately feel both counties are entering a more progressive and positive era but time will tell.

Just regards kildare awakening in the 90s. Yes Dwyer was a big influence and great players like Ryan and Earley also were hugely important. But I felt what kickstarted everything for kildare was larry Tompkins lifting Sam Maguire in 1990. Larry is a kildare born and reared and played for kildare
And I think seen a kildare man become one of the best footballers in Ireland and lift Sam Maguire along with Shea Fahey showed kildare footballers could win All Irelands . I think Tompkins sucess with Cork was a very positive development and had a positive knock on effect on kildare gaa morale. Of course Dwyer also was the turning point and a generation of leaders like Ryan were the deciding factors , but I just always felt that Larry with Cork had a very positive knock on effect..Prior to 1990 there was little interest in the county team, but Micko came in and it exploded. What I remeber most was the 4 games between both counties in 1997 and 98 that will live long in the memory , especially the game of the decade in 97..The greatest game I ever attended. And attending 1998 kerry v kildare semi final and seem the hill. all in white. I had seen the hill in blue and green and red but never white and even as Meath man, I have to admit it was some sight. I ended up in Maynooth that night and it was some night , they were dancing on the table well into the early morning. Those years 1996 to 2004 when Dublin Meath kildare Offaly laois and Westmeath were magical years. Leinster was the centre of the football world. It really has fallen since.

If you just look at leinster teams in div 1 since 2000 it appalling. Its tells the full story since 2000. No leinster team has reached a div 1 final since loais in the mid 00s outside Dublin. leaving Dublin to one side no leinster team has won div 1 league title since 1998 , 22 years ago.when Offaly won. Dublin have not faced any opposition consistently from leinster since the 90s
.
Meath have been in div 1 , 2 times in the last 20 years. kildare have been in div 4 times in the last 20 years. Offaly , Westmeath and laois have been in div 1 two times in last 20 years and that it. Meath went 13 years without being in div 1 til this year. And kildare were in div 1 , 1 year in 13 years between 2000 and 2013 eg 2007. In the last 15 years only one leinster team outside Dublin has stayed in div 1 that was kildare in 2012 2013 under McGeeney. This has to change in the 20s. If not leinster football will continue in its state of decline."

Replying To bdbuddah:  "Quick question Furlong which you may know due to your knowledge of Meath/ Kildare football. Before the Seanie Johnston affair Mick O'Dwyer famously brought in outside players to Kildare to help them win Leinster (Karl O'Dwyer/ Brian Murphy/ Karl Lacey that I can think of off the top of my head). I have heard people saying that this renewed an old Kildare tradition, their teams long ago who won trophy's had plenty of outsiders also (due to soldiers from all over the country being based in the Curragh army camp). It's something I have oscasionally heard casually said without hearing much detail. How common was it for army men from other parts of the country to play for Kildare back then or is this a bit of a myth ?"

Replying To The_Fonz:  "One last fact check Wexford 2005 and Laois 2006 were league finalists when it was the old format of 1A and 1B semi finals and final. You stated no Leinster team other than Laois outside of Dublin reached a league final since the mid 00s."

Replying To Furlong1949:  "Let me explain what I know.

Yes I have heard this over the years, but I have not read it anywhere, and I have my doubts if it is true , Id say it is unlikely , but I am not 100% sure about all the 4 All Ireland winning teams. I do know for a fact of the kildare team that won the All Ireland in 1919 , that was made up with players from Kildare , Kildare men born and bred with the odd exception I will mention below, which will surprise people.

Clane is central to success of early Kildare football. The success is built around Clane football. You cannot underestimate the role Clane had. In terms of outside influence. There was allot of country people working in the bogs of Kildare. As someone mentioned above there was allot of Tippearery people working in the bogs and they brought love of hurling. Also there was allot of Galway people working in the bogs of kildare also and they brought also a love of hurling and football. As I said there is a massive Galway community in kildare , and massive Mayo community in Meath.

The Curragh does have role in the early gaa in kildare. In that early times festivals were held in the Curragh and in the 1600s and 1700s and there is reports of hurling match in the Curragh around 1600. And there is also a report of a gaelic football match between Meath and Kildare in the Curragh in the 1690s which I think Edward Fitzferald of Maynooth attended. What the Curragh was important for early kildare footballl was providing facilties and supplying jerseys and boots to players all over the county. Up to the 1950s and 1960s many Kildare players still would have got their boots from the Curragh Barracks. In terms of players theres a member of the army called Sammon who was famous player in early Kildare football and he high up in the ranks of the army. He was born in kildare. In terms players this is a list below of the players of the team that won the Allreland for Kildare in 1919 , as you can see their all Kildare men with the odd exception.

The kildare All Ireland Winning Team 1919 Players 1 - 15 and Subs

1 Larry Cribbin Goals, was born in Clane Co. kildare.
2 Jimmy Conlon right full, back born in Newbridge Co. Kildare.
3 James Moran Full Back , Born in Trim Co, Meath.
4 Tom Goulding left full back, Born in Ballysax Curragh Co. kildare.
5 Mick Buckley right half Back, Born in Sallins Co. Kildare.
6 Joe Connor centre back, born in Clane co. Kildare.
7 Tom Lawlor Left half back , Born in Carragh Naas Co. kildare
8 Mick Sammon Midfield, Born in Clane County Kildare.
9 Larry Stanley Midfield, Born in Carragh Naas Co.kildare.
10 Frank Conlon Left wing forward , Born in Newbridge Co. kildare.
11 Chrstopher Flynn right half forward, Born in kilcock Co. kildare.
12 James O Connor Centre forward, Born in Naas County kildare.
13 George Mangan left full forward , Born in Kingsfort Co. Meath
14 James Stanley Full forward, Born in Carragh Naas Co. Kildare.
15 Bernie McGlade left full forward, Born in Co. Derry.

Subs John Carney, Born in Newbirdge Co.kildare.
Peter Garret, Born in Pollardstown Co.kildare.
Albert O Neill Born in Dublin City centre
John Carey, Born in NewbridgE Co.kildare
Paul Doyle, Born in Athgarvan Co.kildare.

Trainer was Joe McDonald , born in Naas Co.kildare.

So of the 15 players who won the All Irelanf for Kildare in 1919 , 12 of the players were born in Kildare, one was born in Derry and 2 yes 2 were born in Meath. Darren Fay was not the first man to win All Ireland at full back from Trim , the first was James Moran in 1919. There was 5 subs, 4 of them were born in Kildare and one from Dublin. The players from outside county had no connection with the Curragh. Bernie McGlade was from Derry but he was teacher in Newbridge College. George Mangan was born in Meath and was member of the Gardai and James Moran also from Meath had cycle repair shop in Edenderry and moved to kilcock.

So no that team didn't have players from down the country . from outside kildare , who were in the army in the curragh playing football for Kildare. I doubt the 1912 team had eitheir which had 8 clane players I don't know for certain about 1927 28 team. But my gut feeling is like 1919 it was mostly kidlare men with the maybe odd Meath man. I have heard that in all kildares All Ireland winnig team there was at l least one Meath man . Again that could be wrong as I have never read it just being over the years. But there was 2 Meath men on 1919 team.

That's all I know , I hope that helps, the Kildare lads on the forum might have more information."

Replying To lambofgod:  "Seems like Furlong is not quite as smart as he thinks he is.

Seems to be a common theme with Meath posters."

Replying To 11jm11:  "Great information yet again furlong. I did not know that full back James mroan was born in trim but I did know he played for kilcock and is still viewed as a legend in those parts. His football career was curtailed by involvement in the war of independence. George Magan not Mangan also played for kilcock and it appears he too was born in meath, also never knew that. Did they grow up in kilcock or in meath? The great Larry Stanley was from my own club caragh, many people do not know he also played with Dublin in the 1920s"

Replying To The_Fonz:  "Hasn't even acknowledged that he was incorrect either"