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Replying To TheFlaker: "I reality it isn't that simple for everyone to withdraw into the 45, if you really want to change it then say the attacking team can't go back into their 45 once they leave it. In that instance even if they did drop loads of men back it would be easy to force them out with a press." It might work but there is loads of room for an attacking team to play keep ball between the 46s against the blanket then. I'm sure there's a solution but it won't be easy. Dubs still scored 1-17 from play on Sunday, blanket or no blanket.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 16/09/2019 20:22:08
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Replying To Joxer: "It might work but there is loads of room for an attacking team to play keep ball between the 46s against the blanket then. I'm sure there's a solution but it won't be easy. Dubs still scored 1-17 from play on Sunday, blanket or no blanket." I have no problem with Dublin or any team doing it, I think it's to be admired if a team can kill the clock.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 17/09/2019 03:02:15
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Replying To Canuck: "It was only a matter of time until posters got criticized for expressing an opinion. My opinion is not on the play of any one team but the way the game is played today. There can be no denying the facts. The ball is hand played now more that kicked. So calling it football anymore is obsolete. Players taking a free walking themselves into a better position meters away from the foul. The rules are there for that but never used. There can be no denying that it takes more skill to kick a dead ball over the bar from the ground. In fact why bother holding up the game for a kick out of the hand 21 meters out . Just give a score.
Connolly's long delivery pass for a score was delightful and double marking, pulling down, would not beat it because it took out the defender and all that line of blanket defenders in between. Risky yes but not of giving up a score only loosing possession. If perfected by more players and teams blanket defence would change.
There are still many accolades the game can be given. Obviously 80K went twice and over 1 million watched. However there is nothing wrong with people expressing opinions and suggesting change, After all the games as it is player today is a result of many changes. Kicking from the hand, hand passing, red, black and yellow cards, Side line balls etc.In my opinion many of these were for the worst. Time to clean up the mess that was created." an excellent post Mick...everything that is wrong with the game covered in a few lines...
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 17/09/2019 12:37:14
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Replying To Canuck: "It was only a matter of time until posters got criticized for expressing an opinion. My opinion is not on the play of any one team but the way the game is played today. There can be no denying the facts. The ball is hand played now more that kicked. So calling it football anymore is obsolete. Players taking a free walking themselves into a better position meters away from the foul. The rules are there for that but never used. There can be no denying that it takes more skill to kick a dead ball over the bar from the ground. In fact why bother holding up the game for a kick out of the hand 21 meters out . Just give a score.
Connolly's long delivery pass for a score was delightful and double marking, pulling down, would not beat it because it took out the defender and all that line of blanket defenders in between. Risky yes but not of giving up a score only loosing possession. If perfected by more players and teams blanket defence would change.
There are still many accolades the game can be given. Obviously 80K went twice and over 1 million watched. However there is nothing wrong with people expressing opinions and suggesting change, After all the games as it is player today is a result of many changes. Kicking from the hand, hand passing, red, black and yellow cards, Side line balls etc.In my opinion many of these were for the worst. Time to clean up the mess that was created." Who's getting criticized for expressing an opinion? You, me and everyone else are fully entitled to express our opinions. However others in turn are fully entitled to disagree and criticise your opinion. That's not the same thing as you getting personally criticized for your opinion, that's simply others disagreeing with you and expressing their own opinion!
the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 495 - 17/09/2019 13:27:58
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Replying To Canuck: "It was only a matter of time until posters got criticized for expressing an opinion. My opinion is not on the play of any one team but the way the game is played today. There can be no denying the facts. The ball is hand played now more that kicked. So calling it football anymore is obsolete. Players taking a free walking themselves into a better position meters away from the foul. The rules are there for that but never used. There can be no denying that it takes more skill to kick a dead ball over the bar from the ground. In fact why bother holding up the game for a kick out of the hand 21 meters out . Just give a score.
Connolly's long delivery pass for a score was delightful and double marking, pulling down, would not beat it because it took out the defender and all that line of blanket defenders in between. Risky yes but not of giving up a score only loosing possession. If perfected by more players and teams blanket defence would change.
There are still many accolades the game can be given. Obviously 80K went twice and over 1 million watched. However there is nothing wrong with people expressing opinions and suggesting change, After all the games as it is player today is a result of many changes. Kicking from the hand, hand passing, red, black and yellow cards, Side line balls etc.In my opinion many of these were for the worst. Time to clean up the mess that was created." I completely agree and Connolly's pass was pass of the season and an absolute dagger blow to Kerry especially as he'd just broken up an attack right before he delivered the ball in long.
As you say this is all about opinions, I personally hate keep ball, I understand why Dublin and other teams do it but that doesn't mean I have to like it and I certainly would prefer not to have to pay for the privilege of watching it.
Also why do people feel that if Kerry had just pushed up and pressed Dublin in those final minutes that they would have been unable to play keep ball? If anything this would have resulted in Dublin just playing fast off the shoulder passes and resulted in more goal opportunities.
cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 17/09/2019 13:31:52
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Hate this, there is nothing wrong with keeping the ball or passing backwards, never has been and there never should be.
boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 17/09/2019 14:06:42
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Why does everybody feel that the spectacle put on for the supporters is the most import aspect of the game? I can promise you, no team discussing tactics has EVER considered it to be in anyways important.. even teams that play "good" football, or fast football that we enjoy watching, do so because the manager felt at the time that that direct style of ball was the best way to beat the opposition. No players complain about the other team keeping the ball, it's part of the game we all love to play.. changing the rules to suit the barstoolers and the bystanders would be the ruination of the game. We play for pride and fundamentally because we enjoy it, not to put on an entertainment show.
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 17/09/2019 14:17:48
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Replying To Sweetspot: "Why does everybody feel that the spectacle put on for the supporters is the most import aspect of the game? I can promise you, no team discussing tactics has EVER considered it to be in anyways important.. even teams that play "good" football, or fast football that we enjoy watching, do so because the manager felt at the time that that direct style of ball was the best way to beat the opposition. No players complain about the other team keeping the ball, it's part of the game we all love to play.. changing the rules to suit the barstoolers and the bystanders would be the ruination of the game. We play for pride and fundamentally because we enjoy it, not to put on an entertainment show." "Why does everybody feel that the spectacle put on for the supporters is the most import aspect of the game?"
Are you serious? Take away the supporters and the money they provide and see how many players will be playing our inter county games. Croke Park would look great with no one in it on All-Ireland day. How many sponsors do you think there would be if there was no entertainment value? At this level the association, players and managers better remember that entertaining the supporters is one of the fundamental requirement of their existence. If not stay with the club game and enjoy the game we love to play. Maybe also it is time to tone down the tactics without removing the desire to win and enjoy the game while providing entertainment for family, friends and the broader public.
As regards those barstoolers and bystanders. Many of those are people who kept the game going before you knew it existed and are entitled to their view on rule changes to improve the game. The rules have been changed before you know and will again.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 17/09/2019 15:21:02
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Replying To boman11: "Hate this, there is nothing wrong with keeping the ball or passing backwards, never has been and there never should be." Entitled to your opinion. Just curious though. Are you o.k that the ball is played more by hand that kicked in a game that was designed to be "football" ? This is something that "never has been and never should be"
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 17/09/2019 15:31:07
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Replying To Sweetspot: "Why does everybody feel that the spectacle put on for the supporters is the most import aspect of the game? I can promise you, no team discussing tactics has EVER considered it to be in anyways important.. even teams that play "good" football, or fast football that we enjoy watching, do so because the manager felt at the time that that direct style of ball was the best way to beat the opposition. No players complain about the other team keeping the ball, it's part of the game we all love to play.. changing the rules to suit the barstoolers and the bystanders would be the ruination of the game. We play for pride and fundamentally because we enjoy it, not to put on an entertainment show." Without supporters we have no money without money we have no GAA, the inter-county game basically feeds everything else but nobody applies the same standard of "spectacle" and "entertainment" of a Dublin v Kerry game to an U12's match between Naomh Olaf and St Sylvesters they don't even use the same rules. So while I take your point that most teams don't care about supporters just the winning, at inter-county level you'd better care about the supporters or you may as well close Croke Park.
At the moment the Inter-county game is suffering from a weird dichotomy of a lack of quality teams and one sided matches leading to supporters losing interest, and one team who have so much quality they're basically unbeatable leading to supporters losing interest.
Most sports look at their rules regularly and try and adapt as times change there is nothing wrong with this but acting like doing nothing at all is the answer makes no sense.
cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 17/09/2019 15:55:35
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It's pretty simple a team has a choice. The two final games just gone Illustrate it.
Dublin 1 point behind pushed up and one 4 turnovers in the least ten minutes and pushed Kerry to the pin of their color in th last quarter of the game.
Kerry in the second game, didn't push up and attack the game they reverted to a blanket and essentially torpedoed any hope of winning the game.
It's bravery and belief both in the sideline and in the pitch. You couldn't get a better example then the two games and how the teams did or did not attack the game. Both teams have terrific footballers, but their is a tactical psychological battle as well. He's a great coach but Donnie Buckley defensive game plan didn't do Kerry any favors the last day, of all teams Dublin are very familiar with it, I think that's 5 or six finals he's been involved in now and not been Dublin with his blanket,
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/09/2019 16:02:32
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Replying To cavandub: "Without supporters we have no money without money we have no GAA, the inter-county game basically feeds everything else but nobody applies the same standard of "spectacle" and "entertainment" of a Dublin v Kerry game to an U12's match between Naomh Olaf and St Sylvesters they don't even use the same rules. So while I take your point that most teams don't care about supporters just the winning, at inter-county level you'd better care about the supporters or you may as well close Croke Park.
At the moment the Inter-county game is suffering from a weird dichotomy of a lack of quality teams and one sided matches leading to supporters losing interest, and one team who have so much quality they're basically unbeatable leading to supporters losing interest.
Most sports look at their rules regularly and try and adapt as times change there is nothing wrong with this but acting like doing nothing at all is the answer makes no sense." Rules do change and they have been changing more than ever in the last few years. That is a good thing but bringing up keep ball as a major issue for supporters in daft in my opinion.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 17/09/2019 16:09:50
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Unbelievably rubbish thread.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 17/09/2019 16:20:13
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Replying To Canuck: "Entitled to your opinion. Just curious though. Are you o.k that the ball is played more by hand that kicked in a game that was designed to be "football" ? This is something that "never has been and never should be"" I agree. Take Ciarán Kilkenny who got man of the match on Sunday, how many times did he kick pass the ball in any direction?
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1785 - 17/09/2019 16:27:26
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I preferred the keep ball style that Dublin played in the second half, than the kick the ball away that Kerry played in the first 20 minutes.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 17/09/2019 20:09:44
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Replying To baire: "I agree. Take Ciarán Kilkenny who got man of the match on Sunday, how many times did he kick pass the ball in any direction?" Well he definitely kicked at least 4 over the bar.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 17/09/2019 20:52:10
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It is a matter of opinion. The hand passing all over the place going nowhere reminds one of the solo run. A great skill but also over done. We had a player who would pick it up in his own back line and go to the other 21 and you could not get the ball off him. However teams figured him out and let him have it while everyone got in to place to deal with it when he eventually had to kick it. I felt get the ball in the middle of the field delivering an accurate pass quickly in front of the full forwards or behind the back before anyone was settled. The next thing you knew was the net was shaking. The shortest way between two points is a straight line. Call it what you and differ as you please.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 17/09/2019 21:22:46
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Replying To baire: "I agree. Take Ciarán Kilkenny who got man of the match on Sunday, how many times did he kick pass the ball in any direction?" Well he must have kicked the ball in the direction of the posts at least 4 times as he scored 4 points from play, off both feet. Your misunderstanding Kilkenny's role in the team if you're expecting him to be planting Connolly'esque Hollywood passes into the inside forwards every few mins. Ciaran's role is more subtle, to act as the foundation of the attack, low risk passer to release the runners off the shoulder, dictate the attacking tempo, break up play on defense, take low risk shots when the opportunity presents. He is tye pivot man for everything that Dublin do in the other team's half. Invaluable player.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/09/2019 22:47:24
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One solution to football as a spectacle and will also easily remove the keep-ball / mass defences.
It may seem counter-intuitive but its this:-
You cant handapss FORWARD. It will revolutionise the game for the better. Think about it before knocking it. I did initially, i was wrong. Its a great solution.
The game is suffering from the current trend of losing general sports fans interest and the complaints every where there is sports discussion about how unwatchable gaelic football is - and this from football fans of all ages. "Outdoor basketball", "No man-to-man contests", "Mass defences" etc etc.
Hope its not too late by the time the GAA figure this out.
Solo_Run (Leitrim) - Posts: 209 - 18/09/2019 00:39:00
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Replying To cavandub: "We need a variation of the 'shot clock' which a number of sports use to prevent exactly the type of game management that's crept into Gaelic Football (Men and Women). It is a major part of NBA in particular which had issues with teams passing the ball around once they had a lead.
Below is from Wikipedia but shows what the benefit was:
"The shot clock, together with some rule changes concerning fouls, revolutionized NBA basketball. In the last pre-clock season (1953-54), teams averaged 79 points per game; in the first year with the clock (1954-55), the average was 93 points, which went up to 107 points by its fourth year in use (1957-58). The advent of the shot clock (and the resulting increase in scoring) coincided with an increase in attendance, which increased 40% within a few years to an average of 4,800 per game."
The two big problems though would be the use of the blanket defence and how a shot clock rule would translate to the club game. If we had separate rules for club and intercounty level would that professionalise the intercounty game? Looking at the current Dublin team it might be a bit late to worry about that." A timed clock would never be workable in football but limit the passes before a shot might. I still think it goes to far though. Tactics usually evolve with time and I imagine managers are already thinks ways to stop this
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 18/09/2019 02:24:08
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