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Replying To supermon: "Cuman na mBunscol is not part of Diblin county board.
St Pats DCU is a teacher training college that caters for student teachers from all over the country. Thats the same as saying as the coach of the Garda College team in Templemore is pro Offaly.
Dublin is the nation's capital. Country people work and live there. Doesnt make them Dubs." But is he a delegate to the Dublin co board? If that is correct the appointment process is farcical. There must be an awful shortage of quality referees in Connaught/Ulster!
blacknamber (Kerry) - Posts: 267 - 14/08/2019 14:41:41
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Replying To westkerry: "Dublin will win this game in all likelihood regardless of the Ref but I hope he watches his 2016 performance and learns from it." Yes agreed lets hope he watches his 2016 performance and learns from it .
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 14/08/2019 14:51:08
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Replying To TheHermit: "I'm just going to say the below one last time and then leave it there because there's no point talking anymore now that the decision has been made. Kerry will just have to grin and bare it and move one.
However as a general principle:
How would Dublin react if the man in the middle was some fella from Cork or Limerick who lived in Tralee, was essentially a member of Strand Road having thought in the school connected and right next to that GAA club, had been previously photographed after an All-Ireland win with players of the team and the Cup and finally had been allegedly invited into Kerry training sessions that very summer to take charge of practice matches.
I mean if people can't see a conflict of interest there (unintentional as it might be on the part of the official) than you'd have to wonder! How can someone so heavily involved at club level in a competing county and working and living there be expected to be seen as impartial. For the next 3 weeks he will be in Dublin during the buildup and will face the consequences of his actions every day for months after in the capital. And you are telling me that, even at a subconscious level, that can't and won't have an impact?
In the run in to the 2015/16 Premiership title race a ref appointed to one of Leicester's games was stood down because he had, in a private capacity, attended one of their games as a spectator earlier on that season. That was the only link he had with the club and yet the Premier League felt the need to stand him down, he had absolutely no issues with it and neither had Leicester or any of the media. And yet in the GAA we have the above.
How far we have regressed in 90 years. In the early 1930s Cavan objected to playing Kerry because a Munster ref was appointed and the official was duly changed. That was a common enough back then and it was understood that ref's often needed to be changed depending on teams drawn to ensure impartiality.
Like I said, I'll say no more now on it as there's no point.
It's just another pothole placed in front of Kerry on the road to trying to stop an inevitable 5 in a Row." Apart from anything else you are wrong on one point.
He is not involved with any Dublin club.
He's the Irish officer for Slane GFC and a club member there
BoynesideBlue (Meath) - Posts: 130 - 14/08/2019 14:51:53
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Replying To clondalkindub: "Well said and totally right (apart from Templemore is in Tipp)" Yes sorry!
supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 14/08/2019 14:52:01
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Replying To westkerry: "A good few more than 1 mistake.
Most notably a phantom 45 that his umpires didn't give yet he gave on the protestations of one Kev Mac. That rankles a lot.
Decision made will have no outcome this time around as it's men v boys literally." What about AOM's hit on Philly Mac? That was just as bad as Kev Macs. According to your own county men on Kerry Gaa forum after the 2016 semi, AOM was lucky to stay on. There were a few black cards that should have been given that day too to Kerry players.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 14/08/2019 14:52:18
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Eh, correct me if I'm wrong here-but do Kerry not have form when it comes to cosying up to referees prior to a big game?
According to Pat Spillane in his autobiography, didn't even the great Micko invite a referee down to their training to run through their handpassing and let them know what was acceptable/unacceptable? (Yes, HANDpassing- it existed back then, too)
He painted it as some sort of masterstroke, saying that the ref would never then pull them up on it during the game, as he'd already showed them what he would let go. (I'm paraphrasing)
Whilst I accept that this happened 40-odd years ago, is it not fundamentally the same as, say, refereeing an A vs B game?
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 497 - 14/08/2019 14:52:19
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Replying To blacknamber: "But is he a delegate to the Dublin co board? If that is correct the appointment process is farcical. There must be an awful shortage of quality referees in Connaught/Ulster!" No.
supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 14/08/2019 14:52:19
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Replying To TheHermit: "I'm just going to say the below one last time and then leave it there because there's no point talking anymore now that the decision has been made. Kerry will just have to grin and bare it and move one.
However as a general principle:
How would Dublin react if the man in the middle was some fella from Cork or Limerick who lived in Tralee, was essentially a member of Strand Road having thought in the school connected and right next to that GAA club, had been previously photographed after an All-Ireland win with players of the team and the Cup and finally had been allegedly invited into Kerry training sessions that very summer to take charge of practice matches.
I mean if people can't see a conflict of interest there (unintentional as it might be on the part of the official) than you'd have to wonder! How can someone so heavily involved at club level in a competing county and working and living there be expected to be seen as impartial. For the next 3 weeks he will be in Dublin during the buildup and will face the consequences of his actions every day for months after in the capital. And you are telling me that, even at a subconscious level, that can't and won't have an impact?
In the run in to the 2015/16 Premiership title race a ref appointed to one of Leicester's games was stood down because he had, in a private capacity, attended one of their games as a spectator earlier on that season. That was the only link he had with the club and yet the Premier League felt the need to stand him down, he had absolutely no issues with it and neither had Leicester or any of the media. And yet in the GAA we have the above.
How far we have regressed in 90 years. In the early 1930s Cavan objected to playing Kerry because a Munster ref was appointed and the official was duly changed. That was a common enough back then and it was understood that ref's often needed to be changed depending on teams drawn to ensure impartiality.
Like I said, I'll say no more now on it as there's no point.
It's just another pothole placed in front of Kerry on the road to trying to stop an inevitable 5 in a Row." As a season ticket holder at Leicester that is wrong.
What happened was a Leicester ref was appointed to a Spurs game and was changed. None of which is relevant here. But hey don't let the facts get in the way of a good story
BoynesideBlue (Meath) - Posts: 130 - 14/08/2019 14:54:44
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Replying To blacknamber: "But is he a delegate to the Dublin co board? If that is correct the appointment process is farcical. There must be an awful shortage of quality referees in Connaught/Ulster!" https://www.cnmb.ie/cathaoirligh-an-chumainn8207.asp
supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 14/08/2019 14:58:32
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Replying To streaker: "Eh, correct me if I'm wrong here-but do Kerry not have form when it comes to cosying up to referees prior to a big game?
According to Pat Spillane in his autobiography, didn't even the great Micko invite a referee down to their training to run through their handpassing and let them know what was acceptable/unacceptable? (Yes, HANDpassing- it existed back then, too)
He painted it as some sort of masterstroke, saying that the ref would never then pull them up on it during the game, as he'd already showed them what he would let go. (I'm paraphrasing)
Whilst I accept that this happened 40-odd years ago, is it not fundamentally the same as, say, refereeing an A vs B game?" You're right , of course they do but these lads suffer from selective amnesia when it suits them.
you would have to laugh at the sort of rubbish that gets brought up while completely ignoring the shortcomings in their own backyard. Haha , it's comical and I get a great laugh from the stuff they come out with. I'm just glad it's Kerry in the final because you wouldn't get this much fun from any other quarter. Brilliant.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 14/08/2019 14:59:27
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Replying To BoynesideBlue: "As a season ticket holder at Leicester that is wrong.
What happened was a Leicester ref was appointed to a Spurs game and was changed. None of which is relevant here. But hey don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" That proves my point even more, thanks for that correction.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 14/08/2019 15:04:05
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Listen it was well known once gough didn't get a semi final match he was going to get the final. Kerry, Fitzmaurice and the rest of the kerry propaganda machine knew that what they are doing is sowing the seed for the match, What they are praying for is any decisions going Kerry will get and gough will think twice about given them to Dublin in case he will be accused of been pro Dublin. The Kerry agenda here wont impact such an experienced ref as gough who will ref the game on its merits.
jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 14/08/2019 15:05:23
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Replying To supermon: "https://www.cnmb.ie/cathaoirligh-an-chumainn8207.asp" Long list of Dublin Cuman na mBunscol chairs listed. Plenty of Kerrymen there. And id say they lived in Dublin too.
supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 14/08/2019 15:08:32
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Best ref by a country mile and deserved this final
Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 14/08/2019 15:10:05
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Replying To westkerry: "A good few more than 1 mistake.
Most notably a phantom 45 that his umpires didn't give yet he gave on the protestations of one Kev Mac. That rankles a lot.
Decision made will have no outcome this time around as it's men v boys literally." You got a fair side of the Ref in a few Munster finals in late 70's/ early 80's against Cork (ask JBM) and do you not remember the abuse the Cork midfielder got at 'throw in' in AI final (and the guy had the stupidity to admit it in his book). You are the last ones who should be whinging and especially before the event. Do you want a Ref who gives all decisions your way. If you are beaten it will not be by the Ref-that I'm fairly sure off.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 14/08/2019 15:13:26
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there was a Mayo ref. in the 1982 final
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 14/08/2019 15:17:05
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Refs don't care who wins. Don't kid yourselves.
Best ref should get the job.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 14/08/2019 15:27:02
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I have to admit I wasn't keen on Gough been given the job not because the Dublin thing I just didn't like his performances in previous kerry matches. However he is the ref and I don't think it should be a talking point especially before the game, it's not fair on him. by all accounts he deserves it so I wish him well and hope he has a good game. It's a hard enough job as it is so I went be commenting on it again
reithi (Kerry) - Posts: 52 - 14/08/2019 16:25:14
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Replying To TheHermit: "I'm just going to say the below one last time and then leave it there because there's no point talking anymore now that the decision has been made. Kerry will just have to grin and bare it and move one.
However as a general principle:
How would Dublin react if the man in the middle was some fella from Cork or Limerick who lived in Tralee, was essentially a member of Strand Road having thought in the school connected and right next to that GAA club, had been previously photographed after an All-Ireland win with players of the team and the Cup and finally had been allegedly invited into Kerry training sessions that very summer to take charge of practice matches.
I mean if people can't see a conflict of interest there (unintentional as it might be on the part of the official) than you'd have to wonder! How can someone so heavily involved at club level in a competing county and working and living there be expected to be seen as impartial. For the next 3 weeks he will be in Dublin during the buildup and will face the consequences of his actions every day for months after in the capital. And you are telling me that, even at a subconscious level, that can't and won't have an impact?
In the run in to the 2015/16 Premiership title race a ref appointed to one of Leicester's games was stood down because he had, in a private capacity, attended one of their games as a spectator earlier on that season. That was the only link he had with the club and yet the Premier League felt the need to stand him down, he had absolutely no issues with it and neither had Leicester or any of the media. And yet in the GAA we have the above.
How far we have regressed in 90 years. In the early 1930s Cavan objected to playing Kerry because a Munster ref was appointed and the official was duly changed. That was a common enough back then and it was understood that ref's often needed to be changed depending on teams drawn to ensure impartiality.
Like I said, I'll say no more now on it as there's no point.
It's just another pothole placed in front of Kerry on the road to trying to stop an inevitable 5 in a Row." As mentioned in another post Kerry's problem isn't the ref lives and works in Dublin. Kerry are doing two things -
1) Intimidate the referee, try and get a ref who is in awe of Kerry and is afraid to make a big call (2009 All Ireland Final throw in incident)
2) Get a fussy ref who will slow the game down, fall for Kerry cynical tactics and give them easy frees (Deegan in this years semi final)
Gough is neither of the things Kerry want, he's the best referee in the country who will allow a fast paced game of football and won't be intimidated by either team. Kerry's tactics in previous finals won't work with Gough, he won't be biased in any way and won't allow any previous success or tradition to alter his decisions - with Gough in charge the best team on the day usually wins.
Kerry simply didn't want him because he is such a fair referee who they can't imtimidate or fool, nothing to do with him living in Dublin, he is a Meath man at the end of day who hardly have much love for Dublin so Kerry's argument is hilarious and didn't fool the referee committee.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 14/08/2019 16:32:04
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Replying To supermon: "1.Essentially a member? He's not a member. He's a member of his club in Slane. He's heavily involved in that club in Slane, on the club committee if I am not mistaken. So your comparison is way off.
2. I am telling you that on a subconscious level it wouldn't impact. I can tell you that as a Monaghan man who has worked in teaching in Dublin. I have been involved with Cuman na mBunscol teams in Dublin, and that had indirect links to a local club in Dublin as the children I taught came mostly from that club. I can safely say that it would have left me with no inclination to be pro Dublin or anything else. In fact as a Monaghan man I would enjoy the banter with the children I taught if the mighty Dubs were beaten. Especially by Monaghan.
3. We don't live in the 1930's anymore.
4. Premier league does not have the same ethos of community that the GAA has. Volunteerism from David Gough with the children he taught should be commended. I have seen first hand the work he does as Chair of Cuman na mBunscol. This Volunteerism should not be compared to a premier league referee attending a game as a supporter.
5. If you want to make a soccer comparison, Dublin referees regularly referee Dublin clubs against not Dublin clubs in League if Ireland. THEY ARE JUDGED ON THEIR PERFORMANCES NOT ON WHERE THEY LIVE.
6. David Gough has proved himself as a very good referee. His time has come and I wish his all the best.
I really feel that kerry supporters and former managers/players commenting on this have really let themselves down. Blackening a referees reputation and impartiality is lousy by bringing their profession into play.
Seriously lads. Get a life. I wouldnt have said this last week, but i will now after all this. UP THE DUBS!" Excellent post
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 14/08/2019 16:44:23
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