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Kilkenny and Tipp Give Us A Traditional All Ireland Hurling Final

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Replying To catch22:  "
Replying To Heftydickonem:  "My point was all these points have already been made over and over and he comes in a spews out stuff we've heard pages back with little relevance to discussion that preceded his post

So I'll address them again
The bottom line is it was a sending off of fence and Hogan got sent off - yes, most on here agree

All the whataboutery and other bullsh1t about fellas being astounded by the red card is of no significance other than to create a bit of a smokescreen for the collapse - this is nonsense, there was a post describing the shock in the stadium since no one expected the sending off (incidentally on TV they did not either) This has no bearing on whether or not the red was warranted, but to suggest it is a smokescreen is Jim Corr level stuff

Kilkenny had their chances in the first 20 minutes to be 6/7 points up and didn't take them - they went 5 points up, were the better team for 17 minutes of the 33 that elapsed at the time of the sending off. Tipp had a enjoyed a purple patch from 17 minutes to the sending off. It was far from game over already at 33 mins before sending off

Disappointing the way Cody came out with his stuff about Owens taking to long as I would prefer if a referee used all the time and advice available in order to make the right call and that's what he done - I suspect this is more about how exactly did Owens come to that decision rather than the length it took, of course you want a free to take the time required to make a correct decision but it was clear in the stadium that neither he or his linesman saw or reacted to it. So, the question about how they decided on the sanction has implications for every county

Similar daft attempts by Tyrell and Shefflin to say it was this and it was that. It was a red. End of and the referee got it spot on - Yes the rules were applied in this case, whereas they hadn't been all season or the previous seasons. Tyrrell and Shefflin could have handled the situation much better by admitting with the rules applied in this instance Hogan can have no complaints, but highlighted the inconsistency in the application of the rules

Probably deflected some of the attention from the pointless tactics of constantly knocking in high balls and hoping for a miracle - yes, as has been discussed for pages now, Kilkenny's tactics in the second half were completely ineffective

All been dealt with before, around and around we go"
I'll summarize so ,Kilkenny had their chances to be more ahead and missed more than you would expect.
Cody said Owens took a long time to make up his mind and you would want to be sure before sending a player off,so ,no, it wasn't about how he came to the decision.
Rules being applied will never be consistently applied as we regularly see from league to championship and referee to referee,that's par for the course. There's no case to be made for Hogan but a lot of attempts being made to make the whole episode a bit greyer."
Yes a lot of attempts being made to the episode greyer. It could also be inferred that what we are witnessing is is the Kilkenny propaganda machine in full swing (no pun) in trying to influence media and refs, and gullible public. The entire post All Ireland dialogue s being swallowed up in this smokescreen, ad nauseum.
Perhaps we could avoid all of those with a simple amendment to the rule book, stating "All GAA rules apply to counties EXCEPT kILKEENY. "Rules do not apply to Kilkenny and should henceforth be ignored and dispensed with. That's where this whole jibberish is heading. To drive this point home let's put Eddie Keher out there in his "Sunday best telling us "what a lovely lads Richie and the boys are" and should be exempt from any punishment for reckless, endangerment.

This has been my view for well over a decade.. and written about on here several times. .


Now can we talk about that brilliant artisty of Nall O'meara in engineerint the goal which, as someone else pointed, out was the real pivotal point in the game.

Change the discourse lads ,ye were beaten at ye're own game.
And Jesus wept..

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1065 - 22/08/2019 03:15:15    2228412

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Replying To catch22:  "The bottom line here is as always is everyone sees it the way that best suits their county. Some will be a little more reasonable than others but ultimately they will always have a bias towards their own roots and that's only human.
Sometimes it probably is a bit surprising because we see so much of the nothing speak from pundits and commentators who are versed in talking without saying a whole lot.
When you see them try to make some defense for one of their own it just goes to show they are the same as the rest of us behind it all,except ,they have the medals most of us don't.
Anyway , we'll done to Tipp on a well deserved win. The aim now will be to do a back to back which will be very difficult and would mark them apart from a lot of teams."
Well said. Yes we do tend to see things from a narrow angle. The ref is always wrong or nearly always wrong when he makes a decision against our team. As a neutral, having watched the Hogan incident I can say that it most definitely was not an elbow to head contact. It was a shoulder charge which resulted in Barretts head jolting back. Deliberate or not the referee had no option but to give a red card. The rule book states that if contact is to the Head, even if its accidental is a sending off offence. The ref spoke to his linesman and you could see by his expression that he didn't like doing what he had to do. The earlier bang to the face on Hogan should also have been a red card.

Blockandhook (Wexford) - Posts: 353 - 22/08/2019 08:47:07    2228424

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Replying To Blockandhook:  "Well said. Yes we do tend to see things from a narrow angle. The ref is always wrong or nearly always wrong when he makes a decision against our team. As a neutral, having watched the Hogan incident I can say that it most definitely was not an elbow to head contact. It was a shoulder charge which resulted in Barretts head jolting back. Deliberate or not the referee had no option but to give a red card. The rule book states that if contact is to the Head, even if its accidental is a sending off offence. The ref spoke to his linesman and you could see by his expression that he didn't like doing what he had to do. The earlier bang to the face on Hogan should also have been a red card."
I would agree 100%. The referee made the right call in issuing the red however he let too much go up to that moment that in my opinion led to Richie thinking he'd get away with one as it was his first foul.

I hope KK don't go ahead with appealing the red card. I can't see it being over turned and would suggest sour grapes on their side.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 22/08/2019 10:12:35    2228440

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If I was richie I'd give Joe Duffy a call today, the voice of the people.
Or try get on Late Late show Friday night.
Or the way this is going you could have enough material for a Christmas pantomime in the Gaiety, give us all a laugh.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 752 - 22/08/2019 10:18:25    2228445

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Replying To Bon:  "If I was richie I'd give Joe Duffy a call today, the voice of the people.
Or try get on Late Late show Friday night.
Or the way this is going you could have enough material for a Christmas pantomime in the Gaiety, give us all a laugh."
It has dominated the whole week in the hurling world since Sunday.

No discussion about how good Noel McGrath, Barry Heffernan or Ronan Maher were on the day.

Paul Murphy had a fine game for Kilkenny, I thought Lawlor did well on Callanan too.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2507 - 22/08/2019 10:55:13    2228456

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "It has dominated the whole week in the hurling world since Sunday.

No discussion about how good Noel McGrath, Barry Heffernan or Ronan Maher were on the day.

Paul Murphy had a fine game for Kilkenny, I thought Lawlor did well on Callanan too."
There was some serious hurling in it alright.
Now I read they're looking to appeal the red card, you really couldn't make this up, Kilkenny GAA doing themselves no favours at all. They are losing a lot of neutral support as it is.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 752 - 22/08/2019 11:18:34    2228466

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Replying To Faithfull:  "I would agree 100%. The referee made the right call in issuing the red however he let too much go up to that moment that in my opinion led to Richie thinking he'd get away with one as it was his first foul.

I hope KK don't go ahead with appealing the red card. I can't see it being over turned and would suggest sour grapes on their side."
I cant believe that Kilkenny are appealing the red card. This needs to stop. Its one thing the player believing that he was not at fault and did'nt deserve his red card but now the county board are dragging the sorry saga out longer then needs be. For a county that has been great for the game and the game has rewarded them well over the years they are making a bad call here. The incident happened, the ref made the correct call and the best team in Ireland this summer are the All Ireland champions. Move on.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 827 - 22/08/2019 12:00:12    2228479

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Replying To festinog:  "
Replying To slayer:  "Ah lad, please tell us this is on youtube? Sounds like great stuff to be honest :-)


StoreysTash wrote:

I had a match at the weekend and had listened to an absolute tool for 15 minutes, he had hit me twice off the ball and neither of the 2 brain boxes on the posts saw anything. He hit me on the ball eventually and I absolutely leathered him on the ball. I got booked as it was not a great challenge, but it was not dirty."
Junior B, surely? Sounds like some craic all right!"
Senior. Only the 3rd time I was booked in 3 years of adult hurling, and the first time for a bit of a strike.
To quote everyone, I am "Not that kind of player" but I do admit the red mist descended with this tool.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 551 - 22/08/2019 12:01:59    2228482

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Replying To Clubgaa:  "I cant believe that Kilkenny are appealing the red card. This needs to stop. Its one thing the player believing that he was not at fault and did'nt deserve his red card but now the county board are dragging the sorry saga out longer then needs be. For a county that has been great for the game and the game has rewarded them well over the years they are making a bad call here. The incident happened, the ref made the correct call and the best team in Ireland this summer are the All Ireland champions. Move on."
... or as Mr Jackie T , himself would say: they(Kilkenny ) are making a too much of meal out of it,

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1065 - 22/08/2019 12:24:25    2228490

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You'd want to be out of your mind to be a GAA referee. You get no support from GAA HQ, if make a mistake god help you, if you make the right decision but the team you do it to doesn't like it god help you.

Stephen O'Brien's attitude towards his 3rd back card of the season after the Tyrone game was mind boggling in his post match interview and sums up the lack of respect for the rules and referees.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2507 - 22/08/2019 13:36:39    2228515

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Please kilkenny keep appealing, keep making excuses, keep wheeling out former players/pundits. I never enjoyed the week after an all Ireland as much since 1996

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 399 - 22/08/2019 13:42:49    2228516

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I fully back Kilkenny appealing. The player has a right to appeal. Why should he miss the first game in 2020?

The way social media has gone it is almost as though a social media poll dictates everything. If the majority (of anyone) think x over y then we must accept that. Hopefully the appeal will be heard by a panel of people who have played the game and if the red is upheld so be it.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6189 - 22/08/2019 14:15:00    2228528

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Agree with this. I watched back the 2018 final last night and even in commentary Duignan/Morrissey were questioning James Owen's decisions. Most of them they questioned, I took a second look. From his position most of the time he made an honest call based on what he could see. He got 2-3 wrong (e.g. a free to Aaron Gillane after a shoulder from McInerny) but on the whole he contributed to a great occasion.

After the furore this year what must he be thinking? No way would I ever be a ref. Thankless job.

Killarney.87 wrote:

You'd want to be out of your mind to be a GAA referee. You get no support from GAA HQ, if make a mistake god help you, if you make the right decision but the team you do it to doesn't like it god help you.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6189 - 22/08/2019 14:23:19    2228535

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Replying To Faithfull:  "I would agree 100%. The referee made the right call in issuing the red however he let too much go up to that moment that in my opinion led to Richie thinking he'd get away with one as it was his first foul.

I hope KK don't go ahead with appealing the red card. I can't see it being over turned and would suggest sour grapes on their side."
Richie Hogan and Kilkenny are appealing the black card, as reported in today's Irish Independent. Can they not move on. They lost the game.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1157 - 22/08/2019 14:43:03    2228543

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "
Replying To festinog:  "[quote=slayer:  "Ah lad, please tell us this is on youtube? Sounds like great stuff to be honest :-)


StoreysTash wrote:

I had a match at the weekend and had listened to an absolute tool for 15 minutes, he had hit me twice off the ball and neither of the 2 brain boxes on the posts saw anything. He hit me on the ball eventually and I absolutely leathered him on the ball. I got booked as it was not a great challenge, but it was not dirty."
Junior B, surely? Sounds like some craic all right!"
Senior. Only the 3rd time I was booked in 3 years of adult hurling, and the first time for a bit of a strike.
To quote everyone, I am "Not that kind of player" but I do admit the red mist descended with this tool."]As one of the most notorious Kilkenny corner backs of yester years told me when I was a teenager..throw the ball into his a¥$e and pull!
He reckoned that quietened lads down.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 752 - 22/08/2019 15:10:02    2228546

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Richie Hogan and Kilkenny are appealing the black card, as reported in today's Irish Independent. Can they not move on. They lost the game."
From what I'm hearing they are waiting to see how the referees report is worded to see if there's a way of getting it rescinded. Listening to Richie on off the ball and the 2 and a half hour process he has to go through to get on the field, I'll be surprised if he's back next year.

After Shefflin got sent off against Cork in 2013 he barely pucked a ball the following year and then retired. Amazing what 18 months can do as he single handedly got Kilkenny back in the game against Galway in 2012.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 22/08/2019 15:14:23    2228548

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Richie Hogan and Kilkenny are appealing the black card, as reported in today's Irish Independent. Can they not move on. They lost the game."
You mean the red card. Black is football only. I'm not trying to be smart. I make a lot of mistakes myself. Oh to be perfect, wouldn't it be great.

Blockandhook (Wexford) - Posts: 353 - 22/08/2019 15:27:10    2228551

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"It is not Irish dancing" Neither is it UFC where you can hit your opponent with anything even the kitchen sink.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 636 - 22/08/2019 15:30:46    2228552

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Replying To Blockandhook:  "You mean the red card. Black is football only. I'm not trying to be smart. I make a lot of mistakes myself. Oh to be perfect, wouldn't it be great."
Thanks for the correction, I should have said red card.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1157 - 22/08/2019 15:49:05    2228555

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The discussion over this red card (which 99% of he country agree with) is just nauseating at this stage. Kilkenny letting themselves down a bagful. Will be cheering against them from this point on. No-one likes a sore loser!

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 22/08/2019 16:16:06    2228562

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