National Forum

Kilkenny and Tipp Give Us A Traditional All Ireland Hurling Final

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Faithfull:  "I'd agree with a lot of this. In my opinion it was a red, however the red was a surprise in this game because Owens had down graded every yellow card incident to just a free prior to that moment. The tackle on Hogan, the 3-4 incidents when players were pulled back running in towards goal. Based on the way he reffed it up to then my initial reaction was one of he could be in trouble here but not he's definitely 100% getting the line. On that basis I thought he'll pull Richie aside, give him a yellow and restore some order on the game.

The eventually hammering was down to KK's poor use of the ball. Couldn't understand the constant lumping ball down the field allowing a Tipp player to come out and deliver ball into a lethal full forward line. Congrats to Tipp, it's been a while since they won 3 All Irelands in the same decade."
If letting a fella away with deliberately elbowing another player in the chin just so you can "restore order to the game" then we have a serious problem with the game, Nobody should be allowed basically assault just so order can be restored to the game.

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 138 - 20/08/2019 10:02:00    2227788

Link

Replying To ballydalane:  "So you don't think Cooper's challenge on Hogan in the Cork game was a red card offence? A shoulder charge to the head? Because all I've been hearing the last 48 hours is how any reckless contact to the head is a red card offence (and rightly so I might add). Because this issue will come up big style in the league, players will be sent off for shoulder charges (malicious intent or not, elbows or not) to the head area.

The rulebook doesn't mention "raised elbows" as a deciding factor, is that just another one of those little non-existent add-ons people like to put on the rules when it fecks over a county they don't like?"
"Strike or attempt to strike with arm, ELBOW, hand or knee" is a red card offence. It's there in the rulebook crystal clear for all to see before you start quoting agendas etc.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1786 - 20/08/2019 10:17:26    2227795

Link

Replying To ballydalane:  "So you don't think Cooper's challenge on Hogan in the Cork game was a red card offence? A shoulder charge to the head? Because all I've been hearing the last 48 hours is how any reckless contact to the head is a red card offence (and rightly so I might add). Because this issue will come up big style in the league, players will be sent off for shoulder charges (malicious intent or not, elbows or not) to the head area.

The rulebook doesn't mention "raised elbows" as a deciding factor, is that just another one of those little non-existent add-ons people like to put on the rules when it fecks over a county they don't like?"
The rule is there in black and white about strike/attempted strike with the elbow......take your bearing for a change and show some grace.....ye got away with it enough down through the years when ye were allowed bend the rules of the game to suit your own style of play

All this [email protected] about no tactics etc as well ffs TJ Reid was back closing the space in the Tipp half forward line throughout the first half, if Waterford, cork, Limerick did that you would have Tyrell etc bemoaning 'tactics' ruining hurling

KK had a golden era , fair play to them......that era has now ended and things are more even .....that's good for the game as us teams like Tipp, Limerick etc winning all Irelands playing open, expansive hurling and mixing it with a tactical nous....

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 702 - 20/08/2019 10:30:03    2227802

Link

Replying To sourmilk93:  "If letting a fella away with deliberately elbowing another player in the chin just so you can "restore order to the game" then we have a serious problem with the game, Nobody should be allowed basically assault just so order can be restored to the game."
It's not letting a player away with anything, it is the ref getting control back on the game. He let both teams away with blatant yellows in the first 30 minutes and then all of a sudden decides to apply the rules to the full letter of the law.

There was far worse challenges throughout the year not punished with a red. Buckley elbow against Limerick, shoulder to Hogan's head against Cork. Both incidents were far worse. In my opinion, had the ref been applying the rules from the off then nobody would have said a word about the red because the marker would of been laid down early.

The above is exactly why two referee's won't work in hurling.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 20/08/2019 10:38:03    2227807

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "Here, Here-Spot on"
Just yesterday you were whining about 2007 yet again and on the eve of the All Ireland final you had current Limerick players whinging about a missed deflection from a line ball that Limerick should never have been awarded in the first place and he you are, completely lacking self awareness, in agreement that Kilkenny should get over it and just move on
Maybe try your own medicine? And it's "hear hear" by the way

Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 143 - 20/08/2019 10:57:55    2227814

Link

Replying To SaffronDon:  ""Strike or attempt to strike with arm, ELBOW, hand or knee" is a red card offence. It's there in the rulebook crystal clear for all to see before you start quoting agendas etc."
You're missing my point. PaudSull claimed Bill Cooper's shoulder charge into Richie Hogan's head in the QF was NOT a red card offence because Cooper "didn't raise his elbow"​. I said the rulebook doesn't specify "RAISED elbow" as the deciding factor for a red card. Like you said, it's "arm, elbow, hand or knee". Using that logic, Cooper should have got a red card in that game too (same ref ironically enough).

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1082 - 20/08/2019 11:02:11    2227816

Link

As another poster said if the red card was so harsh then why isn't Hogan or Kilkenny looking to get it rescinded.

We had a big penalty claim turned down. Kilkenny got 10 points from soft free. We scored 3-17 to their 0-10 from play and beat them by 14 points. The sour grapes is getting a bit cringeworthy at this stage. It's not like we won by a point or two.

This bunch of Tipp players must be the most maligned and criticised set of players to win 2 or 3 all Irelands in the history of the GAA.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2507 - 20/08/2019 11:10:10    2227819

Link

Replying To PaudieSull1:  "The rule is there in black and white about strike/attempted strike with the elbow......take your bearing for a change and show some grace.....ye got away with it enough down through the years when ye were allowed bend the rules of the game to suit your own style of play

All this [email protected] about no tactics etc as well ffs TJ Reid was back closing the space in the Tipp half forward line throughout the first half, if Waterford, cork, Limerick did that you would have Tyrell etc bemoaning 'tactics' ruining hurling

KK had a golden era , fair play to them......that era has now ended and things are more even .....that's good for the game as us teams like Tipp, Limerick etc winning all Irelands playing open, expansive hurling and mixing it with a tactical nous...."
As per my response to saffron don, you're missing my point. You claimed Bill Cooper's shoulder charge into Richie Hogan's head in the QF was NOT a red card offence because Cooper "didn't raise his elbow"​. I said the rulebook doesn't specify "RAISED elbow" as the deciding factor for a red card. It's "arm, elbow, hand or knee". Using that logic, Cooper should have got a red card in that game too (same ref ironically enough).

Forget the match Sunday or what Jackie Tyrell did or didn't say or what blade of grass TJ Reid was on, just answer this question: do you think a shoulder charge to the head is a red card offence?

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1082 - 20/08/2019 11:10:48    2227820

Link

It's long past time to congratulate Tipp,, show some good grace, stop the whinge and move on.

Mayfair (Galway) - Posts: 41 - 20/08/2019 11:15:08    2227822

Link

Replying To ballydalane:  "As per my response to saffron don, you're missing my point. You claimed Bill Cooper's shoulder charge into Richie Hogan's head in the QF was NOT a red card offence because Cooper "didn't raise his elbow"​. I said the rulebook doesn't specify "RAISED elbow" as the deciding factor for a red card. It's "arm, elbow, hand or knee". Using that logic, Cooper should have got a red card in that game too (same ref ironically enough).

Forget the match Sunday or what Jackie Tyrell did or didn't say or what blade of grass TJ Reid was on, just answer this question: do you think a shoulder charge to the head is a red card offence?"
Ballydalane your posts and contributions are usually worth reading but you need to let this Richie Hogan red card go. Big decisions by players and refs have major impact on matches. Richie made his decision in a split second and paid the price. The ref made his in a cool manner, consulted his linesman and made the correct call. 14 men had an impact on the game but in my opinion after Kilkenny had a vice like grip on the game for the 1st quarter ( as they did against Limerick ) Tipp had opened the game up in the 2nd quarter and looked good for the win without the sending off.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 827 - 20/08/2019 11:34:56    2227828

Link

https://youtu.be/y2CICV0tr5s

Watch the last 20 seconds.
9 steps. No debate, no common sense, allow for the conditions, it wasnt deliberate, it was a natural movement.. 9 steps.
While kk can debate the card all day long, it was just one thing in a long season of decisions. Some go with you, some not.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2587 - 20/08/2019 11:55:47    2227835

Link

Replying To Clubgaa:  "Ballydalane your posts and contributions are usually worth reading but you need to let this Richie Hogan red card go. Big decisions by players and refs have major impact on matches. Richie made his decision in a split second and paid the price. The ref made his in a cool manner, consulted his linesman and made the correct call. 14 men had an impact on the game but in my opinion after Kilkenny had a vice like grip on the game for the 1st quarter ( as they did against Limerick ) Tipp had opened the game up in the 2nd quarter and looked good for the win without the sending off."
I've said it umpteen times on this thread that Richie Hogan's tackle was a red card offence and he was stupid to do it. I think any KK fans, players, management or pundits who are saying it wasn't a red are completely wrong.

My issue is with the inconsistent application of punishments for head high tackles.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1082 - 20/08/2019 11:57:35    2227836

Link

Replying To Mayfair:  "It's long past time to congratulate Tipp,, show some good grace, stop the whinge and move on."
I posted my congratulations to Tipp on this very thread as soon as I got home on Sunday evening. One of the best teams of all time and one of the best managers of all time.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1082 - 20/08/2019 12:01:13    2227837

Link

My issue is with the inconsistent application of punishments for head high tackles.

I think you could expand this to just be inconsistent application of rules.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3886 - 20/08/2019 12:13:05    2227842

Link

Replying To ballydalane:  "I posted my congratulations to Tipp on this very thread as soon as I got home on Sunday evening. One of the best teams of all time and one of the best managers of all time."
Doesnt look like you meant it because you have spent the last 48 hours crying about the red card and referee

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 138 - 20/08/2019 12:13:07    2227843

Link

It was the second time in a row that Hogan went hard in on Barrett only the first time he missed Barrett's sidestep.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2507 - 20/08/2019 12:15:46    2227846

Link

Replying To Heftydickonem:  "Just yesterday you were whining about 2007 yet again and on the eve of the All Ireland final you had current Limerick players whinging about a missed deflection from a line ball that Limerick should never have been awarded in the first place and he you are, completely lacking self awareness, in agreement that Kilkenny should get over it and just move on
Maybe try your own medicine? And it's "hear hear" by the way"
Please stop it -it was a sideline ball. Please do not be so myopic. I have it on good authority from a stout Kilkenny hurling man that Paul Murphy put the ball out. He was close to the incident and saw it. Your also constantly suggesting than Limerick players are constantly trying to get other players put off. Another absurdity. When was any opposition player put off against Limerick. I suppose you will tell us next that no KK player ever bought a free.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2284 - 20/08/2019 12:51:16    2227853

Link

Replying To ballydalane:  "I posted my congratulations to Tipp on this very thread as soon as I got home on Sunday evening. One of the best teams of all time and one of the best managers of all time."
You're at nothing. They don't read what you type. They take what they want from your posts, not what you have stated.

Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 143 - 20/08/2019 12:54:05    2227854

Link

I think you are spot on.



ballydalane wrote:

My issue is with the inconsistent application of punishments for head high tackles.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6189 - 20/08/2019 12:57:13    2227857

Link

Replying To sourmilk93:  "Doesnt look like you meant it because you have spent the last 48 hours crying about the red card and referee"
I'm on record numerous times on this thread as saying the red card was the correct decision and the fault lays squarely with Richie Hogan.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1082 - 20/08/2019 13:06:14    2227862

Link