|
It's been bugging me for quite some time so time to throw it out there but before I do that please note that this is not an anti-Dublin rant. You won't find such a post by me in this forum.
This mainly relates to Football but could apply to hurling as well except for the BC point obviously (only a matter of time before the hurling fraternity have to concede that its needed)
Some suggestions to level the playing field for Clubs and Counties.
1. Reduce the number of allowed subs to at least four and possibly three. When did it go to six anyway? Add the blood sub to that as well. You may argue that a team should be allowed to use the strength of their squad in a game but that would be forgetting that clubs and counties have to work with the panel they have and that's based on parish and county boundaries primarily. Of course thats not the only reason as some clubs and counties punch way above their weight and others need to get the finger out.
2. Make the black card a sin binning offence. If you are the David against the Goliath and the opposition get a black card and they have an All Star running in off the bench it does make you wonder where the actual punishment for the cynical foul is. Meanwhile you look at your own bench and it probably isn't full of household names.
So, does the playing field need to be levelled and if so any other suggestions in terms of rules changes.
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 17/07/2019 19:40:02
2212504
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Sindar: "It's been bugging me for quite some time so time to throw it out there but before I do that please note that this is not an anti-Dublin rant. You won't find such a post by me in this forum.
This mainly relates to Football but could apply to hurling as well except for the BC point obviously (only a matter of time before the hurling fraternity have to concede that its needed)
Some suggestions to level the playing field for Clubs and Counties.
1. Reduce the number of allowed subs to at least four and possibly three. When did it go to six anyway? Add the blood sub to that as well. You may argue that a team should be allowed to use the strength of their squad in a game but that would be forgetting that clubs and counties have to work with the panel they have and that's based on parish and county boundaries primarily. Of course thats not the only reason as some clubs and counties punch way above their weight and others need to get the finger out.
2. Make the black card a sin binning offence. If you are the David against the Goliath and the opposition get a black card and they have an All Star running in off the bench it does make you wonder where the actual punishment for the cynical foul is. Meanwhile you look at your own bench and it probably isn't full of household names.
So, does the playing field need to be levelled and if so any other suggestions in terms of rules changes." Couldn't agree with you more on the black card, for teams with strong squads or with ample replacement for the fella going off it isn't really that much of a punishment, certainly worth it if it came when the opposition were bearing down on a certain goal chance like the Sean Cavanagh foul that was the catalyst for the black cards introduction.
The first point I'd agree with to an extent at club level but not at county, as someone from a small rural parish that struggles to field a team at times I like it from a biased position but at the same time why should a big parish have to suffer because of our population.
One thing I would like to see brought in in some shape or form is something akin to the rugby system whereby persistent fouling leads to a yellow (or black in football) card for a player even if it may be his first offence. I say this in relation to the trend that has emerged especially in the inter county game of fouling a lad between his own 45 and halfway line to avoid him getting away on a counter attack and allowing you time to reset. Kills momentum and teams can just swap around who commits the foul to avoid getting reprimanded for it and its almost if not more cynical than some black card offences that we see week to week.
Highandmighty (Leitrim) - Posts: 54 - 17/07/2019 20:30:49
2212523
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Sindar: "It's been bugging me for quite some time so time to throw it out there but before I do that please note that this is not an anti-Dublin rant. You won't find such a post by me in this forum.
This mainly relates to Football but could apply to hurling as well except for the BC point obviously (only a matter of time before the hurling fraternity have to concede that its needed)
Some suggestions to level the playing field for Clubs and Counties.
1. Reduce the number of allowed subs to at least four and possibly three. When did it go to six anyway? Add the blood sub to that as well. You may argue that a team should be allowed to use the strength of their squad in a game but that would be forgetting that clubs and counties have to work with the panel they have and that's based on parish and county boundaries primarily. Of course thats not the only reason as some clubs and counties punch way above their weight and others need to get the finger out.
2. Make the black card a sin binning offence. If you are the David against the Goliath and the opposition get a black card and they have an All Star running in off the bench it does make you wonder where the actual punishment for the cynical foul is. Meanwhile you look at your own bench and it probably isn't full of household names.
So, does the playing field need to be levelled and if so any other suggestions in terms of rules changes." I dont think blood sub should automatically be a permanent sub. Any player who leaves pitch with blood injury and is replaced has a clock on them. 15 minutes of actual time not game time and then the sub is permanent.
Reducing number of subs isnt necessarily a good thing. I would much prefer to see far smaller benches at all levels with more interchange/rolling subs. Ridiculous having 10 plus subs on bench.
Change black card to sin bin but also make yellows a sin bin as well.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 17/07/2019 20:45:46
2212528
Link
0
|
|
How is the Women's Six Nations going to have a level playing field when there is one professional team?
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7847 - 17/07/2019 21:13:41
2212541
Link
1
|
|
I honestly don't think this levels the playing field.
Ok so take Dublin they've got a class bench most of which would be starting for every other team in the country.
I can understand why it looks like limiting subs of a team that can bring on Dean Rock is a good idea.
Truth is that Dublin are just class all through the first 15.
I don't think it's going to make any difference really at all.
Dublin's starting 15 is so fit they'd just run teams into the ground and kill them anyway just as they're already doing.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 17/07/2019 21:53:23
2212558
Link
8
|
|
Why do people still say the Sean Cavanagh incident was the catalyst for the black card??
The decision had already been made to introduce it when he committed that foul on McManus.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 17/07/2019 23:09:53
2212585
Link
1
|
|
I think intercounty should be 13 a side and maximum 3 subs. Black card a 10 minute sin bin.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 17/07/2019 23:13:25
2212589
Link
7
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "I honestly don't think this levels the playing field.
Ok so take Dublin they've got a class bench most of which would be starting for every other team in the country.
I can understand why it looks like limiting subs of a team that can bring on Dean Rock is a good idea.
Truth is that Dublin are just class all through the first 15.
I don't think it's going to make any difference really at all.
Dublin's starting 15 is so fit they'd just run teams into the ground and kill them anyway just as they're already doing." I think limiting the amount of subs would help a bit alright ,yes the Dublin first 15 is just class they are an amazing team but in them finals between Dublin and mayo there was nothing between the starting 15s if you were to pick a combined 15 it would of been 8players from 1team and 7 from the other they were that evenly matched but the major difference and the reason Dublin won them matches is because of the high calibre players that came off the bench to change the game and to eventually win the game so if you limit subs it would give other teams a bit more of a helping hand coz not every team has the high number of exceptional players that Dublin have but I don't think it matters a great deal when other teams play each other coz none of them have the pick Dublin have .
On another note I thought the black card sin bin was brilliant in league and id like to see that introduced next year with a stop clock system tho to stop time wasting when player is in sin bin
Galwayjoe86 (Galway) - Posts: 258 - 17/07/2019 23:33:09
2212595
Link
0
|
|
Agreed. If they have an all-star coming off the bench, then God help you with what must have been their starting 15!!
The leveling of the playing field doesn't happen on game day. It needs to happen in improved support to counties to develop their support teams and coaches at all levels so that come game time, the gulf in training, conditioning, and preparedness has been reduced.
Take your own county's game against Dublin that's coming up. Despite the fact that Roscommon are Connacht champions, and had to beat two division 1 teams to get that far, no-one is giving them a snowball's chance of winning, with many expecting Dublin to win pulling up. That's bloody ridiculous, but sadly, probably not far wrong. None of your suggestions would change that one little bit.
festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 18/07/2019 00:02:59
2212600
Link
0
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "How is the Women's Six Nations going to have a level playing field when there is one professional team?" You're a strange petal xx
Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 18/07/2019 00:56:32
2212606
Link
1
|
|
certainly worth it if it came when the opposition were bearing down on a certain goal chance like the Sean Cavanagh foul that was the catalyst for the black cards introduction.
Lol - revisionism is a favourite past time in a lot of aspects when it comes to Ireland.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/07/2019 01:06:41
2212609
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "I honestly don't think this levels the playing field.
Ok so take Dublin they've got a class bench most of which would be starting for every other team in the country.
I can understand why it looks like limiting subs of a team that can bring on Dean Rock is a good idea.
Truth is that Dublin are just class all through the first 15.
I don't think it's going to make any difference really at all.
Dublin's starting 15 is so fit they'd just run teams into the ground and kill them anyway just as they're already doing." Iv asked this before but how are Dublins team so much fitter than the rest?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 18/07/2019 06:43:12
2212616
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Sindar: "It's been bugging me for quite some time so time to throw it out there but before I do that please note that this is not an anti-Dublin rant. You won't find such a post by me in this forum.
This mainly relates to Football but could apply to hurling as well except for the BC point obviously (only a matter of time before the hurling fraternity have to concede that its needed)
Some suggestions to level the playing field for Clubs and Counties.
1. Reduce the number of allowed subs to at least four and possibly three. When did it go to six anyway? Add the blood sub to that as well. You may argue that a team should be allowed to use the strength of their squad in a game but that would be forgetting that clubs and counties have to work with the panel they have and that's based on parish and county boundaries primarily. Of course thats not the only reason as some clubs and counties punch way above their weight and others need to get the finger out.
2. Make the black card a sin binning offence. If you are the David against the Goliath and the opposition get a black card and they have an All Star running in off the bench it does make you wonder where the actual punishment for the cynical foul is. Meanwhile you look at your own bench and it probably isn't full of household names.
So, does the playing field need to be levelled and if so any other suggestions in terms of rules changes." While I agree with certain aspects, you have to remember that where a county does not have a strong panel, generally those counties will also be behind the top teams in terms of fitness. My own county for example, Meath played Donegal last Sunday, we received a (clear and obvious-no disputing!!!) black card, but the team were already completely wiped from the previous 50 odd minutes of action. At that point if we only had one or two more subs the gap at the end would have been a lot wider than 9 points.
My point is, Dublin, for instance, have class throughout their starting 15, but they are all supremely fit, as are Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry etc. Weaker teams would struggle fitness-wise to last 70 mins with only 3 subs. Lets face it, they are struggling with 5/6 subs!!! So I do not think that would be a solution, I think it would only create a bigger problem.
S&C is the biggest area that counties need to improve on IMO.
But I do agree with the sin bin idea. The BC is a farce. Couple of years ago was at a game, we were a point or two behind with a few mins to play, opposition player received a BC and the ref made us wait until the replacement came onto the pitch before we could resume playing!!!! Removed ANY element of advantage we would have had!!! So that along with any one of a million examples shows that it is not fit for purpose and needs to be looked at.
nibuagandua (Meath) - Posts: 14 - 18/07/2019 08:32:42
2212623
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Iv asked this before but how are Dublins team so much fitter than the rest?" They're not.
It's just that most teams expend so much energy trying to stay with them that they are knackered after an hour.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 18/07/2019 09:36:35
2212646
Link
1
|
|
Replying To MuckrossHead: "They're not.
It's just that most teams expend so much energy trying to stay with them that they are knackered after an hour." I think they probably do have a larger pool though too and just have players that are on average better in most departments.
They are incredibly organised and it is much easier to finish games well when you've 15 players capable of winning 1v1 situations all over the field.
Like Mannion for instance is a ferocious defender when needed to be, McCaffrey is a wonderful 1 v 1 attacker. There's no respite for an opponent at any point in a game.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 18/07/2019 10:13:17
2212662
Link
7
|
|
I wouldn't change anything that limits playing time for individuals. These rules filter down to underage where I'd be greatly in favour of allowing the maximum amount of subs for participation purposes. It also facilitates the managers in rotating players to help keep everyone involved and will aid player retention.
In relation to the physical aspect, allowing changes helps keep players fresh and healthier. Research has shown that injuries occur more commonly in the second half of games (link, link) so allowing managers to change more players can help reduce risk here. Don't we ultimately want to see players kept fit for inclusiveness at club level and the fans want to see the best players playing at inter county level?
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 18/07/2019 10:41:38
2212675
Link
0
|
|
Replying To MuckrossHead: "They're not.
It's just that most teams expend so much energy trying to stay with them that they are knackered after an hour." Sound muck.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 18/07/2019 10:47:32
2212682
Link
0
|
|
Replying To nibuagandua: "While I agree with certain aspects, you have to remember that where a county does not have a strong panel, generally those counties will also be behind the top teams in terms of fitness. My own county for example, Meath played Donegal last Sunday, we received a (clear and obvious-no disputing!!!) black card, but the team were already completely wiped from the previous 50 odd minutes of action. At that point if we only had one or two more subs the gap at the end would have been a lot wider than 9 points.
My point is, Dublin, for instance, have class throughout their starting 15, but they are all supremely fit, as are Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry etc. Weaker teams would struggle fitness-wise to last 70 mins with only 3 subs. Lets face it, they are struggling with 5/6 subs!!! So I do not think that would be a solution, I think it would only create a bigger problem.
S&C is the biggest area that counties need to improve on IMO.
But I do agree with the sin bin idea. The BC is a farce. Couple of years ago was at a game, we were a point or two behind with a few mins to play, opposition player received a BC and the ref made us wait until the replacement came onto the pitch before we could resume playing!!!! Removed ANY element of advantage we would have had!!! So that along with any one of a million examples shows that it is not fit for purpose and needs to be looked at." "we received a (clear and obvious-no disputing!!!) black card"
It was a stonewall red card all day long.
opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 18/07/2019 12:09:06
2212720
Link
0
|
|
Replying To opa01: " "we received a (clear and obvious-no disputing!!!) black card"
It was a stonewall red card all day long." Ha ha, the referee gave a black card, so it was a black card! My point was that I wasn't disputing the referees decision. I haven't seen it on TV only saw it live and we commented at the time that it was a bad challenge.
nibuagandua (Meath) - Posts: 14 - 18/07/2019 12:22:55
2212725
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Kurt_Angle: "I wouldn't change anything that limits playing time for individuals. These rules filter down to underage where I'd be greatly in favour of allowing the maximum amount of subs for participation purposes. It also facilitates the managers in rotating players to help keep everyone involved and will aid player retention. In relation to the physical aspect, allowing changes helps keep players fresh and healthier. Research has shown that injuries occur more commonly in the second half of games ( link, link) so allowing managers to change more players can help reduce risk here. Don't we ultimately want to see players kept fit for inclusiveness at club level and the fans want to see the best players playing at inter county level?"
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 18/07/2019 12:53:18
2212733
Link
8
|