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Those Peter Harte Black Cards

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Replying To rhudson: "the only fair and proper way to go is a points total for very yellow card you pick up the black card is a really grey area confusion with the yellow abounds its not a deterrent as another player replaces him and will allways favour the stronger team panel a player at the moment can commit a fouls in every game pick a yellow card in every game in league and championship and not miss any games at all however if you had a points award say 2 pt for every yellow 4 for a red eventually persistent fouling would be penalised by missing a game ie when a player reaches a total of 20 pts for example it would be clear and transparent players would be conscious of their points total rising" Good suggestion! But like most things in the GAA rules are made of compromises and politics with the right outcome being fudged Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 10/07/2019 18:38:40 2209196 Link
I fully expect Peter Harte to be playing in the Hyde on Saturday. The biggest problem is that there are too many loopholes and grey areas so most appeals are won. Only last summer we ourselves were appealing to have David Murray's suspension lifted in the same circumstance, which we won, so I have no issue with Harte being free to play. Douglas_44 (Roscommon) - Posts: 225 - 10/07/2019 19:08:14 2209204 Link
Replying To Sindar: "I'll try to answer if I can. A trip and a kick, for example, are two different things though sometimes a player might be trying to do both and the ref might go with the black instead of a red. However, you can usually tell by the aggressiveness of the leg movement. Aggressive abuse to a matach official might, for example, be when a player shouts very loudly at a MO and/or moves towards him but doesn't use any bad language. Any bad language at the MO is a straight red for me every time. There is no guide for refs on this!! Accidental may still be a foul. Trips can be accidental but you still have to give a free. A player could be taken out accidentally, still a free. Accidental is never a card. Most of the BC rules were yellow before the BC came in and as far as I call aggressive remonstration wasn't specifically defined but was treated as dissent - depending on the ref of course!" Sindar, on the bad language one, would you differentiate between 'F*s sake, I went for the fing ball ref' and 'You're only a fing bx' m_the_d (None)** - Posts: 1099 - 10/07/2019 20:07:47 2209227 Link
Replying To m_the_d: "Sindar, on the bad language one, would you differentiate between 'F*s sake, I went for the fing ball ref' and 'You're only a fing bx'" Hhmmm, it really depends on the tone and the body language. The first one could be anything from moving the balll forward if I awarded a free against him to a black card. Not likely a red which I know contradicts what I said originally about bad language but the bad language in that example isn't directed at the ref. The latter example is a straight red every time regardless of tone and body language. Fair enough? Sindar (Roscommon)** - Posts: 348 - 10/07/2019 21:33:28 2209258 Link
Replying To TrueBlue35: "While unlucky for one of his cards Peter Harte was making clumsy challenges and has fallen foul of a blurred rule. If you give a ref half a chance to give a black then sometimes you get one and sometimes you don't. Taking the incidents aside I actually think this talk of conspiracies and plotting against Tyrone is quite frankly embarrassing. Best thing Peter Harte could do would be get the head down (Same for Mickey), train his backside off and return for the next game with a renewed hunger and feeling of wanting to right the wrongs he feels he has had thrown against him. No better man than Mickey Harte to use it as part of his annual siege mentality either." well thats where you have it completely wrong...no way should tyrone take this lying down...mmm..last time i heard, a black card is not handed out for a clumsy challenge...clumsy does not equate with deliberate..the rule is that black cards are handed out for deliberate pull downs or trips...maybe you should do a re-think of that one mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 10/07/2019 22:34:31 2209283 Link
Replying To mayotyroneman: "well thats where you have it completely wrong...no way should tyrone take this lying down...mmm..last time i heard, a black card is not handed out for a clumsy challenge...clumsy does not equate with deliberate..the rule is that black cards are handed out for deliberate pull downs or trips...maybe you should do a re-think of that one" Yeah but clumsy by it's nature can be interpreted as deliberate. That's what makes it clumsy! Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 11/07/2019 11:13:46 2209399 Link
Replying To Sindar: "Hhmmm, it really depends on the tone and the body language. The first one could be anything from moving the balll forward if I awarded a free against him to a black card. Not likely a red which I know contradicts what I said originally about bad language but the bad language in that example isn't directed at the ref. The latter example is a straight red every time regardless of tone and body language. Fair enough?" Spot on, very reasonable, thanks. m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 11/07/2019 13:30:40 2209487 Link
Replying To Donegal_abroad: "Yeah but clumsy by it's nature can be interpreted as deliberate. That's what makes it clumsy!" Yeh that's where the phrase "a clumsy mistake" came from right? From the deliberate nature of the mistake made!Some logic in that way of thinking boss. :) seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/07/2019 14:19:44 2209513 Link
When is there going to be a decision on this matter? doubletree (Dublin) - Posts: 164 - 11/07/2019 14:32:57 2209525 Link
Replying To seanie_boy: "Yeh that's where the phrase "a clumsy mistake" came from right? From the deliberate nature of the mistake made!Some logic in that way of thinking boss. :)" There should be very little room for sympathy for a "clumsy mistake" in full contact sport. SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 385 - 11/07/2019 16:05:18 2209573 Link
Replying To SurelyToGod: "There should be very little room for sympathy for a "clumsy mistake" in full contact sport." We're talking about Gaelic football boss.....there's other forums for discussing the UFC and MMA etc. seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/07/2019 16:26:28 2209581 Link
Replying To seanie_boy: "We're talking about Gaelic football boss.....there's other forums for discussing the UFC and MMA etc." Gaelic Football is an example of a full-contact sport. MMA is an example of a full-contact combat sport. SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 385 - 11/07/2019 16:35:15 2209585 Link
Replying To SurelyToGod: "Gaelic Football is an example of a full-contact sport. MMA is an example of a full-contact combat sport." Lol. seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/07/2019 16:55:52 2209593 Link
Only one of the black cards have been overturned by the looks of it, so Petey can play on Saturday. Huge boost for Tyrone. Does anyone know if Harte is still technically on two black cards, so if he gets another one he will be banned again? or is the slate wiped clean? TakeyourPoint. (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 12/07/2019 08:19:47 2209785 Link
Replying To TakeyourPoint.: "Only one of the black cards have been overturned by the looks of it, so Petey can play on Saturday. Huge boost for Tyrone. Does anyone know if Harte is still technically on two black cards, so if he gets another one he will be banned again? or is the slate wiped clean?" I think he is still on two black cards so he would want to be very careful. dave1988 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1060 - 12/07/2019 08:37:45 2209789 Link
Replying To Dellboypolecat: "We will see what the appeal body think as I am certain all 3 don't fit the crime" Looks like the central hearings committee got it wrong . You should put in a call and let them know how it works bud. catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 12/07/2019 09:07:34 2209801 Link
Replying To seanie_boy: "My guess would be that it's not against Peter Harte personally if that could be believed,but more likely it's intended to be a way to get back at Tyrone GAA and Mickey Harte for being so out spoken against the black card in the first place. It could be that it's all on the back of the last ref in the Cavan game and the others are blameless. He could have seen an opportunity to hit back at Mickey and did it on his own initiative. Everything had been teed up for him at that point. I'd love to know was there much history between them. Regardless of how we got here it seems a bit much for one player to get 3 blacks like just happened with Peter Harte in this way. Something about it all seems to have been manufactured and outside of anything we understand the black card to be used for. Peter isn't now and has never been a dirty/cynical player." One of the cards has been deemed unfair to stand. Surely to God if they were out to get Tyrone they would have dismissed the appeal altogether. I don't think it's a witch hunt as many seem to want to portray it. catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 12/07/2019 09:13:28 2209804 Link
Replying To catch22: "One of the cards has been deemed unfair to stand. Surely to God if they were out to get Tyrone they would have dismissed the appeal altogether. I don't think it's a witch hunt as many seem to want to portray it." Heads will roll in Croke Park after this decision. Some official forgot to include the CHC in the "Stick it to Mickey" WhatsApp Group. However, I'm hearing that an early red or another BC for PH on Saturday would redemm the situation. Watch this space... Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 12/07/2019 11:42:45 2209886 Link
Replying To catch22: "One of the cards has been deemed unfair to stand. Surely to God if they were out to get Tyrone they would have dismissed the appeal altogether. I don't think it's a witch hunt as many seem to want to portray it." It was hard to dismiss such an appeal when the whole escapade was being questioned by people from many different quarters. I'm glad he's been cleared to play but it still leaves him in a dodgy situation as he's still on 2 black cards. Should never have been put in that spot to begin with. seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/07/2019 12:34:16 2209915 Link
If the black card from the Tyrone v Cavan match is a correct black card then the rest of the championship is in danger because every game will have about 20 tackles that the referee can issue a black for when he feels like it. tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 12/07/2019 12:53:54 2209925 Link