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Super 8 General Discussion

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Replying To avonali:  "We learned a lot from Micko and his 'good deals'. He was the man who challenged the amateur ethos of the GAA by introducing the whole idea of commercial support for teams. You cannot 'whitewash that fact. There has always been plenty of financial support for Kerry PLC."
Micko was trying to scrape funds together for a team holiday.. bit of a difference. You know right well.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 23/07/2019 21:33:40    2215466

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Hi we had to work for our money and success and we still do and we won all our allirelands away from home."
Is Croke Park on All Ireland final day not a neutral venue ?

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 1955 - 23/07/2019 21:51:28    2215478

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Replying To kevin03:  "This article does a pretty good job at that.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0614/1055359-dublin-funding/

"Dublin received approximately 14% of the overall fund. In 2018 this figure rose to 22%. By comparison, second on the list was Meath, who received 6% of the pot.

Tyrone, who lost to Dublin in last year's All-Ireland final, received 2% (€119,000)"

Between 2007 and 2018, Dublin received almost €18m in coaching/game development grants directly from Croke Park. Cork are second with €1.4m, with Derry (€1.3m), Meath (€1.1m), Kildare, Laois, Antrim, Wicklow, Wexford and Offaly taking in just over €1m in that time period.

So dublin have a population of 1.3 million vs cork population of 550k. So to keep it fair Dublin should have 3 times the funding of cork as thre population is just under 3 times higher than corks. In reality dublin have 13 times the funding than cork."
But of course you're not doing what is asked. Everything should be leveled. So Leitrim's funding should be proportionate to Mayo's, Monaghan's to Antrim and so on. Why single Dublin out? What's Meath's population to that of Leitrim? Is that fair? Do you see why this is boring? Unless this equal playing field is applied across the board with due consideration to population, dual code status etc then it's a nonsense.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 23/07/2019 23:25:29    2215520

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "Referee decisions always go in favour of the Dubs. They are given soft frees to pad out their lead in the early stages of most games. An exception was Gough's reffing Dublin v Cork.

Did you watch the U20 Leinster final or attend it? Just about sums up reffing and the Dubs.

There's no point expanding on what's been well discussed on about 20 threads. The financial doping being the worst of all.

The begrudgrey argument is a strawman. I applauded Kilkenny's 4 in a row. Was happy for the Dubs to break their 7 year Leinster famine in football in 2002, happy for Shane Lowry etc. But this is a different animal and has led to firstly, anger among GAA people across the country, followed by apathy."
Anger among GAA people? Ha, it!s GAA people from other counties who decide where Dublin play and how much they are funded. The referee decisions delusion. Good God! Dublin are beating some teams by cricket scores and whingers are looking for one or two incidents in a game that may have gone their way. It speaks volumes of these people. Now any update on the tasks assigned to you in the last post. What are you solutions and provide evidence of these so called refereeing decisions that won Dublin games please.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 23/07/2019 23:31:08    2215527

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "Micko was trying to scrape funds together for a team holiday.. bit of a difference. You know right well."
Kerry PLC received massive investment. I've listed the revenue sources and sponsorship deals on here before and massive funding flowing in from the US also not to mention €1m for the centre of excellence from the multi billion dollar Kerry Group sponsors, financial institutions, hotel chains, newspapers, retail outlets. This is effectively a single code county with a modest enough population don't forget. They've won 5 minors in a row, 81 MSFC titles, more senior AIs than any other county but sshhh!!!

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 23/07/2019 23:36:25    2215531

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Hi we had to work for our money and success and we still do and we won all our allirelands away from home."
Yes won after 3 games played, like 1980. Farcical.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 23/07/2019 23:37:42    2215532

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "Not sure if mentioned already but the Super 8s really suit Dublin with regards to their strength in depth in their panel. Look at what's happening to Donegal and Mayo.

In the pre 2001 days Donegal would have been straight into an all ireland semi after winning Ulster. From 2001-2017 they would have had 2 less games (those added by the BS that is the 'Super' 8s) and into a quarter final. All these games in quick succession are hurting the teams below Dublin. They haven't the quality in numbers 16-40 to replace all their injuries.

Also over the last 2 years, especially this year, Dublin seem to have moved on even further in conditioning, prehab, rehab that they pick up very few injuries. Johnny Cooper, back now. And James McCarthy returned really quickly after his injury. Good luck to James, he's a great player. I'm not wishing injury on anyone.

However in every aspect of the game Dublin are given advantages.. 2 home games in the Super 8s, benefitting from reffing decisions as evidenced by card and foul counts etc, money, a large panel to cope with more games, huge population.

I posted other years that it was up to other counties to come up to Dublin's level. But this year has been a watershed for me, it's just impossible to ignore the facts any longer."
A level headed opinion on dublin that's actually worth a reply to. The funding in games development and the extra match croker in super 8's will be changed and rightly so . Probably also one or two more games away from there in leinster aswell more for appeasement than anything as won't make a difference , Dublin are a couple of steps up from everyone bar maybe meath going forward. The population on the other hand would require some serious thinking and for the association to completely reinvent itself. Split dublin in 2/3 then what about the ratio of galway to leitrim or Cork to care. Should other counties be made to amalgamate as to make sure the population count is relatively equal like an election register. The end of a county system. The cards and fouls is a strange one as I haven't seen anyone put the ratio of tackles to fouls up . Dubs in most games would have fewer tackles made as they hold and retain the ball more and it's wildly held that there fitness is at a higher standard and most cards and fouls come when teams are fatigued.

ctowers (Dublin) - Posts: 78 - 24/07/2019 00:06:53    2215539

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Replying To Joxer:  "But of course you're not doing what is asked. Everything should be leveled. So Leitrim's funding should be proportionate to Mayo's, Monaghan's to Antrim and so on. Why single Dublin out? What's Meath's population to that of Leitrim? Is that fair? Do you see why this is boring? Unless this equal playing field is applied across the board with due consideration to population, dual code status etc then it's a nonsense."
I was asked to take funding into account along with the population which is what I done. I answered it pretty well as I took into account Dublin had 2.5 times the population of cork but somehow recieved 13 times the funding. Hardly a fair system especially when you can directly match the funding with dublin winning AIs.

kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 227 - 24/07/2019 07:09:56    2215568

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Replying To Joxer:  "Kerry PLC received massive investment. I've listed the revenue sources and sponsorship deals on here before and massive funding flowing in from the US also not to mention €1m for the centre of excellence from the multi billion dollar Kerry Group sponsors, financial institutions, hotel chains, newspapers, retail outlets. This is effectively a single code county with a modest enough population don't forget. They've won 5 minors in a row, 81 MSFC titles, more senior AIs than any other county but sshhh!!!"
Yeah difference is that Kerry worked on securing this money themselves as dublin did with big. Cork park didn't dump 18million into Kerrys bank account in less than 10years like they did with Dublin. But sshhh we are not supposed to keep bringing this up.

kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 227 - 24/07/2019 07:12:55    2215570

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "Sums it up a lot of Dublin fans. A day out. Event junkies. Probably can't name the clubs players come from.Lucky it doesn't clash with the Picnic."
Yeah like a lot off gaa fans yourself included event junkies and all

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2508 - 24/07/2019 07:16:54    2215571

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Yeah you work at bullying the gas and even the government,your greed holds no bounds

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2508 - 24/07/2019 07:18:03    2215572

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From a practical point of view, I'm happy Meath are getting 3 games against top teams before the league next season, hopefully we'll learn from the experience.

But personally, at this stage of a season, I love knockout football, I'd take the All-Ireland Quarter Finals over the Super 8s any day of the week. Although the overall format could be changed to ensure a more competitive championship.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8322 - 24/07/2019 10:00:56    2215617

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Replying To kevin03:  "Yeah difference is that Kerry worked on securing this money themselves as dublin did with big. Cork park didn't dump 18million into Kerrys bank account in less than 10years like they did with Dublin. But sshhh we are not supposed to keep bringing this up."
Yes and what does the annual GDF look like per head of population? Nobody is disputing that the funding is high but it should be proportionate by population and have a further reduction based on dual code status. So if Dublin has 10 times the population of Kerry and got €1m per year then Kerry should get 100K minus a % based on their lack of need to fund a top tier senior hurling side. Leitrim would get about 15K reduced, Tyrone about 110K reduced and so on. That's fair is it not?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 24/07/2019 10:03:19    2215619

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Replying To hipster:  "Yeah you work at bullying the gas and even the government,your greed holds no bounds"
'bullying the gas'?

You must be on some sort of gas..

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 24/07/2019 13:31:18    2215728

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Replying To ctowers:  "A level headed opinion on dublin that's actually worth a reply to. The funding in games development and the extra match croker in super 8's will be changed and rightly so . Probably also one or two more games away from there in leinster aswell more for appeasement than anything as won't make a difference , Dublin are a couple of steps up from everyone bar maybe meath going forward. The population on the other hand would require some serious thinking and for the association to completely reinvent itself. Split dublin in 2/3 then what about the ratio of galway to leitrim or Cork to care. Should other counties be made to amalgamate as to make sure the population count is relatively equal like an election register. The end of a county system. The cards and fouls is a strange one as I haven't seen anyone put the ratio of tackles to fouls up . Dubs in most games would have fewer tackles made as they hold and retain the ball more and it's wildly held that there fitness is at a higher standard and most cards and fouls come when teams are fatigued."
Maybe counties should amalgamate. I think it could be sold to younger people but take the older generations a while to get their head around it. No problem with Laois/Offaly here.

In the 90s and noughties Dublin didn't maximise their resources in terms of population. They are now and that's the crux of the matter.

I have no begrudgery towards Jim Gavin and the players. The players seem like decent guys, they are exceptional footballers. It's more the GAA hierarchy I have the problem with. When (i can't see anyone stopping them) Dublin do 5 in a row I will applaud. But I'd be hypocritical if I didn't say I'd have reservations at what the GAA have done to fair competition.

This country v Dublin thing never exists for me. Some go on as if they are totally separate. I have a lot of Dublin cousins, uncles and aunts by marriage that are true blue, i worked their for 10 years, attended college there. As a history student I specialised on the 1913 Lockout. So I have no anti Dublin people sentiment in me whatsoever. If it was Westmeath were given all the advantages i'd argue against them just the same.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 24/07/2019 13:41:43    2215739

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "'bullying the gas'?

You must be on some sort of gas.."
I think your the one sucking the diesel ,and do you need salt and vinegar with that??

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2508 - 24/07/2019 13:53:36    2215749

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Replying To Joxer:  "Anger among GAA people? Ha, it!s GAA people from other counties who decide where Dublin play and how much they are funded. The referee decisions delusion. Good God! Dublin are beating some teams by cricket scores and whingers are looking for one or two incidents in a game that may have gone their way. It speaks volumes of these people. Now any update on the tasks assigned to you in the last post. What are you solutions and provide evidence of these so called refereeing decisions that won Dublin games please."
'Tasks assigned to me'!

Sorry Mr. Joxer I forgot to do my homework.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 24/07/2019 20:32:15    2215963

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Replying To Joxer:  "Yes and what does the annual GDF look like per head of population? Nobody is disputing that the funding is high but it should be proportionate by population and have a further reduction based on dual code status. So if Dublin has 10 times the population of Kerry and got €1m per year then Kerry should get 100K minus a % based on their lack of need to fund a top tier senior hurling side. Leitrim would get about 15K reduced, Tyrone about 110K reduced and so on. That's fair is it not?"
Funding should be based on registered gaa members

In 15 years of getting 18 million Dublin GAA has not really made inroads into the new communities around the county and there are still large areas barely served by a gaa club

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1708 - 24/07/2019 20:36:39    2215968

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Replying To Joxer:  "Yes and what does the annual GDF look like per head of population? Nobody is disputing that the funding is high but it should be proportionate by population and have a further reduction based on dual code status. So if Dublin has 10 times the population of Kerry and got €1m per year then Kerry should get 100K minus a % based on their lack of need to fund a top tier senior hurling side. Leitrim would get about 15K reduced, Tyrone about 110K reduced and so on. That's fair is it not?"
Joxer Kerry have a serious hurling team who compete in the Joe McDonagh cup.

A competition who's winners despatched the mighty Dublin hurlers.

Kerry is more a dual county than Dublin. It's hurling fraternity don't receive the funding you're lot do.

Before you counter with so then money means nothing. It's harder to produce a hurler, more than money required.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 24/07/2019 20:37:59    2215969

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Replying To Joxer:  "Yes won after 3 games played, like 1980. Farcical."
Harder than Dublin. Cork were a challenge in Munster late 70s and 80s.

You don't know an awful lot bar bluster.

As for decisions against given to Dublin when winning by a cricket score. It still doesn't alter the fact you were helped.

2005 Leinster final, Laois 2 pts up entering injury time. Ref conspires to give you 2 dodgy frees and a dubious 45 to win by a point. 2011 soft free to beat Kerry.

And you are financially doped. Far more money per head of population than any other county. The fact that Leitrim receives a little less than they should is neither here nor there. Strawmen arguments.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 24/07/2019 20:44:49    2215975

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