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Replying To greysoil: "Replying To KingdomBoy1: "100% jack, Horan is trying his hardest to to get tier 2 in and turning a blind eye to what is going on under his nose.
****
the tier 2 s***e and share the money out equally.
I can't see anything being changed until county teams take a stand and strike, i gaurentee you if there's mention of a strike and sky get word of it the GAA will have to change the over funding of Dublin and while they're at it get the dubs on the road."
A second tier championship is addressing a symptom not the cause . Both Meath and Kildare would be in the top tier .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 4973 - 04/07/2019
The second tier championship is smoke & mirrors by an unashamedly partisan president. An attempt to deflect from the real issues." Tier 2 teams don't like being tier 2 I get that, not easy admitting that but that's sport someone has to win, many these counties should to something they good at.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 05/07/2019 09:04:59
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Replying To legendzxix: "Population of a province + Funding of a province =
Dublin v Ulster
Connaught v Dublin
Dublin v Munster
Leinster v Dublin
Seems a fairly competitive fixture list for an inter-provincial round robin. Fairer population balance. Fairer provincial funding spread as well. Vienna is 1 of 9 provinces in Austria. Dublin has evolved. It's the Ireland we live in." But you're being tripped up by your own logic. You'd be quite happy to see Connacht with a population of 550,000 play Ulster with a population of 2.2 million. Why don't you have any issue with the obvious demographic imbalance here?
Or take a scenario closer to home: Would you be writing into the Munster Council complaining about these issues if Kerry's footballers or hurlers (from a population of160,000) were playing , say, Waterford with a population of 55,000. This must cause you great anguish altogether. You can't argue a principle if your logic is that inconsistent.Propose a new competition where the principle of demographic equality is upheld ACROSS THE BOARD or else stop whinging.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 09:49:17
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Replying To avonali: "But you're being tripped up by your own logic. You'd be quite happy to see Connacht with a population of 550,000 play Ulster with a population of 2.2 million. Why don't you have any issue with the obvious demographic imbalance here?
Or take a scenario closer to home: Would you be writing into the Munster Council complaining about these issues if Kerry's footballers or hurlers (from a population of160,000) were playing , say, Waterford with a population of 55,000. This must cause you great anguish altogether. You can't argue a principle if your logic is that inconsistent.Propose a new competition where the principle of demographic equality is upheld ACROSS THE BOARD or else stop whinging." Probably not because hes not from Kerry! ;)
Your feeding a many headed hydra!
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 05/07/2019 10:06:44
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Replying To DonegalAtlantic: "Excellent post Greengrass. Those in favour of Dublin's funding levels and, or who say it has in no way contributed to their success love to point out the modest success at minor level. Of course we know the true grade that delivers Senior success is U20/21 and Dublin have been hugely successful here. Multiple wins for Kerry and Tyrone in the late 90s and early 2000's underpinned their multiple senior All Ireland's in the 2000's. To support the point Tyrone have won a number of minor's since 2008 but only one team has converted to U20/21 success, many of who are now underpinning their senior team. Laois in the 1990s are another example of why minors do not guarantee senior success. But Dublin have been the most successful U20/21 football team of the last decade - coincidently.
The likes of Tommy Lyons etc like to point to minors and forget about U20/21. Suits him perfectly. Then trotting out that he nearly lost the one footed Paul Mannion to soccer as he was a school's boy international. Jason McGee of Donegal was also a schools boy international but we managed to hold on to him. Unlike Seamus Coleman. But would appear that's the best example Tommy Lyons can muster, one which no doubt applies to other counties and not just poor Tommy and Dublin. Maybe the money and commercial opportunity has stopped Dublin loosing players to Aussie Rules - they seem to loose few relative to other counties.
It is self evident that Dublin's success in football and now emerging success in hurling is materially linked to the significant funding they have received. If not then (1) Give back the excess over average money received, (2) the GAA need to acknowledge it was money poorly invested, or (3) Acknowledge it and split the county." Spot on.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 05/07/2019 10:09:36
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "You said that you know a players parents looked after him while he concentrated on football, I'd call that hearsay unless you can substantiate it which I doubt very much. Even if you can it is one player and hardly the norm as your post was implying. It is also not professionalism btw." What are you looking for? Receipts or his bank account details.
You know its the truth. It's also in the public domain. They gave up their careers to focus on football- they were -albeit for a short while - professional.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 10:32:51
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Replying To avonali: "But you're being tripped up by your own logic. You'd be quite happy to see Connacht with a population of 550,000 play Ulster with a population of 2.2 million. Why don't you have any issue with the obvious demographic imbalance here?
Or take a scenario closer to home: Would you be writing into the Munster Council complaining about these issues if Kerry's footballers or hurlers (from a population of160,000) were playing , say, Waterford with a population of 55,000. This must cause you great anguish altogether. You can't argue a principle if your logic is that inconsistent.Propose a new competition where the principle of demographic equality is upheld ACROSS THE BOARD or else stop whinging." I understand the point you're trying to make but t 21he example of Ulster is a poor one for obvious reasons.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 05/07/2019 10:39:13
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Replying To avonali: "There's no hearsay here. These are facts.
Another fact, Darran O'Sullivan and Kieran Donaghy both left their jobs to focus on their footballing careers.
I know for a fact that many Kerry players and ex-players drive around in nice cars like Audis for instance. I don't think they took out a loan for them.
Now will you got away and check you're facts.
This is a list of Dublin players' occupations.
Steven Cluxton - Teacher.
Philly McMahon - Business.
Cian O'Sullivan - Tax Consultant PWC.
Michael Fitzsimons - Physiotherapist.
Jonny Cooper - Student recruitment, DCU.
John Small - Account officer, Digicom Office technology.
Eric Lowndes - Teacher.
Brian Fenton - Physiotherapist, Beaumount Hospital.
James McCarthy -Bank rep.
Ciarán Kilkenny - Student St Pat's Drumcondra.
Con O'Callaghan - Student, UCD.
Jack McCaffrey - Student, UCD.
Paul Mannion - Digital innovation student, UCD.
Paddy Andrews - Dealer in stockbrokers.
Dean Rock - Leisure centre executive, Stewarts sports centre, Palmerstown.
Kevin McManamon - Sports psychology consultant." More rumour and hearsay and you are telling me to check my facts. lol. You are a howl avonali
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 10:45:43
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Replying To avonali: "What are you looking for? Receipts or his bank account details.
You know its the truth. It's also in the public domain. They gave up their careers to focus on football- they were -albeit for a short while - professional." Professional means you get paid avonali. Hardly surprising you didn't know that given you struggle with the difference between fact and rumour.
As far as I remember that story about Donaghy wasn't true at all but I don't know for sure, and Darren wanted to leave his job in the bank for good and change careers. He opened his own business shortly after. I can confirm that as I have been a customer of his.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 10:58:12
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Replying To HighKings: "I understand the point you're trying to make but t 21he example of Ulster is a poor one for obvious reasons." Do you realise that there are vast areas of Dublin where there are no GAA clubs whatsoever.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 11:08:26
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Professional means you get paid avonali. Hardly surprising you didn't know that given you struggle with the difference between fact and rumour.
As far as I remember that story about Donaghy wasn't true at all but I don't know for sure, and Darren wanted to leave his job in the bank for good and change careers. He opened his own business shortly after. I can confirm that as I have been a customer of his." Yeah-professionals get paid.'. So how did these guys eat and pay bills etc. They just lived like the birds in the trees?
You 'don't know for sure'...you were a customer of his etc. You talk about hearsay. You're some 'genius' right enough.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 11:13:31
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Professional means you get paid avonali. Hardly surprising you didn't know that given you struggle with the difference between fact and rumour.
As far as I remember that story about Donaghy wasn't true at all but I don't know for sure, and Darren wanted to leave his job in the bank for good and change careers. He opened his own business shortly after. I can confirm that as I have been a customer of his." This is from the Irish Examiner Genius. Have a read:
Kerry's Darran O'Sullivan admits he quit his job so he could concentrate on saving his football career.
The former All Star struggled with a series of injuries in the last 18 months and was a peripheral figure in the Kingdom's All-Ireland Championship winning season.
O'Sullivan, now an ambassador for Sky Sports, felt he had no option but to devote himself fully to returning to fitness.
"I left Ulster Bank in November to concentrate on keeping the body right," the Glenbeigh-Glencar forward explained. "It just wasn't suiting me. I had a great time there and learned a lot but I just couldn't see my future there.
_____
You can apologise if you wish.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 11:18:13
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Professional means you get paid avonali. Hardly surprising you didn't know that given you struggle with the difference between fact and rumour.
As far as I remember that story about Donaghy wasn't true at all but I don't know for sure, and Darren wanted to leave his job in the bank for good and change careers. He opened his own business shortly after. I can confirm that as I have been a customer of his." Maybe you missed these articles
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/kerry-star-quits-job-to-focus-on-football-659909.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/kieran-donaghy-quits-job-to-go-full-time-with-kerry-24414
As far as I'm aware no Dublin footballer has ever done what those lads have been able to do. And they call the Dubs professional!
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 05/07/2019 11:21:37
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Replying To avonali: "Yeah-professionals get paid.'. So how did these guys eat and pay bills etc. They just lived like the birds in the trees?
You 'don't know for sure'...you were a customer of his etc. You talk about hearsay. You're some 'genius' right enough." They have jobs and careers like everyone else and you are talking out your backside that is how they eat and pay bills.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 11:40:59
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Replying To avonali: "This is from the Irish Examiner Genius. Have a read:
Kerry's Darran O'Sullivan admits he quit his job so he could concentrate on saving his football career.
The former All Star struggled with a series of injuries in the last 18 months and was a peripheral figure in the Kingdom's All-Ireland Championship winning season.
O'Sullivan, now an ambassador for Sky Sports, felt he had no option but to devote himself fully to returning to fitness.
"I left Ulster Bank in November to concentrate on keeping the body right," the Glenbeigh-Glencar forward explained. "It just wasn't suiting me. I had a great time there and learned a lot but I just couldn't see my future there.
_____
You can apologise if you wish." I said he quit the bank to change career and he opened his business shortly after? He has a pub near glenbeigh you can check that if you want and he was very much a bit part player at that stage anyway. It still does not make him professional.
What is the major difference between a player having a few months between jobs and a student or teacher with three months off in summer to concentrate on football?
Paul Flynn also quit his job In construction and went back to study as he found it too demanding with the football. Donnachadh Walsh did the same.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 11:54:49
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "I said he quit the bank to change career and he opened his business shortly after? He has a pub near glenbeigh you can check that if you want and he was very much a bit part player at that stage anyway. It still does not make him professional.
What is the major difference between a player having a few months between jobs and a student or teacher with three months off in summer to concentrate on football?
Paul Flynn also quit his job In construction and went back to study as he found it too demanding with the football. Donnachadh Walsh did the same." Gerry they both stated that they quit their jobs to concentrate on football. That's the difference.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 05/07/2019 12:03:25
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Replying To avonali: "Do you realise that there are vast areas of Dublin where there are no GAA clubs whatsoever." Are there?
If you live on one of the smaller Aran Islands, you have to get a boat to your clubhouse in Kilronan on Inis Mor. All clubs have a catchment area. Some Dublin clubs, it has been well publicized, even encroach and smother the catchment area of smaller clubs, snapping up their best players.
So what areas of Dublin are you referring to? Bull Island??
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5018 - 05/07/2019 12:03:57
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Replying To DonegalAtlantic: "Excellent post Greengrass. Those in favour of Dublin's funding levels and, or who say it has in no way contributed to their success love to point out the modest success at minor level. Of course we know the true grade that delivers Senior success is U20/21 and Dublin have been hugely successful here. Multiple wins for Kerry and Tyrone in the late 90s and early 2000's underpinned their multiple senior All Ireland's in the 2000's. To support the point Tyrone have won a number of minor's since 2008 but only one team has converted to U20/21 success, many of who are now underpinning their senior team. Laois in the 1990s are another example of why minors do not guarantee senior success. But Dublin have been the most successful U20/21 football team of the last decade - coincidently.
The likes of Tommy Lyons etc like to point to minors and forget about U20/21. Suits him perfectly. Then trotting out that he nearly lost the one footed Paul Mannion to soccer as he was a school's boy international. Jason McGee of Donegal was also a schools boy international but we managed to hold on to him. Unlike Seamus Coleman. But would appear that's the best example Tommy Lyons can muster, one which no doubt applies to other counties and not just poor Tommy and Dublin. Maybe the money and commercial opportunity has stopped Dublin loosing players to Aussie Rules - they seem to loose few relative to other counties.
It is self evident that Dublin's success in football and now emerging success in hurling is materially linked to the significant funding they have received. If not then (1) Give back the excess over average money received, (2) the GAA need to acknowledge it was money poorly invested, or (3) Acknowledge it and split the county." You're a gas man / woman for the nuclear options:
(1) Give back the excess over average money received
How do you calculate this? If its on a simple pro-rata basis then this does not take into account any other factors (e.g. demographics, local contributions etc.) and would not adequately reflect the investment.
Also, how exactly would Dublin GAA actually gather this money to pay back? The money has been spent / invested and can't just be conjured out of thin air.
(2) the GAA need to acknowledge it was money poorly invested
Was it poorly invested, though? It was allocated for a purpose (youth development, if that's what we're talking about) and you could argue that its served this purpose. I'll give you an example from a previous poster:
...Friend of my better half's sends her kids to Kilmacud Crokes. They have apparently around 120 kids at U10 alone. We'd not have that many in our entire club. Lots of coaches and competitive games for the kids every evening during June. The combination of that kind of numbers and lots of coaches (some paid) will ensure quality Dubs being unearthed and developed young well into the future.
It's great to see it in one sense; and the other big change is cultural - it's now trendy for middle-class Dubs to send their kids to 'the Gah'. It's a perfect storm of positive things happening in Dublin. Struggling to see how the rest of us will compete though. The structural unfairness is reaching surreal levels.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 501 - 29/06/2019 19:58:21
When I played underage for Kilmacud Crokes (some time ago now), we regularly struggled to field a full 15. This continued to about u14/15 level. Now kids are piling down to the club to play. There are a huge amount of benefits to the investment from a social (community, comradery etc.), health (exercise etc.) and mental (discipline, participation etc.) point of view, as well as the primary purpose of enticing kids to play the game.
There seems to be a huge focus on the negative of the investment with little acknowledgement on the positive.
Do I think it could have been more evenly spread - of course I do. Do I think that there's opportunities for investment elsewhere with the prospective of big gains - absolutely. Investment in population centres that don't have huge GAA playing numbers (e.g. Belfast, Dundalk, Drogheda etc.) could potentially provide big returns.
Its not this simple, though. Using Essmac's situation as an example, there is a small playing population in his area (>120). If the GAA is the only game in town (can only speculate here, of course), then development investment will yield no return. If he / she's from a larger population centre with a small GAA uptake, then there may be huge potential for returns on investment (maybe Essmac can clarify here). The point being, the money should used where it brings the best return or it is not a sound use of finite resources.
(3) Acknowledge it and split the county.
This has been debated previously and while it may even the inter county playing field in the short term, it has the potential to i) isolate the fan base resulting in smaller attendances and / or playing numbers (the opposite of the purpose of the previous investment) and ii) the two Dublin teams would still likely have the largest population bases, which may ultimately lead to two teams rising to the top and further reducing other county's chances of success.
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 05/07/2019 12:08:26
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Replying To Jackeen: "Gerry they both stated that they quit their jobs to concentrate on football. That's the difference." Where is the quote from Donaghy saying that? iirc that was going around but he actually had another job as a sales rep very soon after.
Will give you Darren who took a few months before opening his business but he had had several injury ravaged seasons before that and was clearly trying to get his body right to have one more crack at it.
Either way, it is a long way from what avonali was implying in his original contribution on the matter
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/07/2019 12:22:25
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "I said he quit the bank to change career and he opened his business shortly after? He has a pub near glenbeigh you can check that if you want and he was very much a bit part player at that stage anyway. It still does not make him professional.
What is the major difference between a player having a few months between jobs and a student or teacher with three months off in summer to concentrate on football?
Paul Flynn also quit his job In construction and went back to study as he found it too demanding with the football. Donnachadh Walsh did the same." FRom October to June is 9 months Genius. That's 3 times more holidays than a secondary teacher - and well you know it.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 12:40:07
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "I said he quit the bank to change career and he opened his business shortly after? He has a pub near glenbeigh you can check that if you want and he was very much a bit part player at that stage anyway. It still does not make him professional.
What is the major difference between a player having a few months between jobs and a student or teacher with three months off in summer to concentrate on football?
Paul Flynn also quit his job In construction and went back to study as he found it too demanding with the football. Donnachadh Walsh did the same." So Gerry, you've conceded the point that most IC players are supported by their employers....in what sense then are the Dublin team more 'professional' than other counties.which was the point that I was originally contesting with another poster.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/07/2019 12:47:34
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