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Replying To benjyyy: "Ah now lads a lot of the giving out about whingers is fair enough and I'm not one for conspiracy theories. But the fact is that Dublin conceded 5 more frees than Meath yet got no cards when Meath got 6 yellows and 1 black. That's a talking point in anyone's book." For sure especially as there were a few instances that deserved a card. Refs are human and the profile of a lot of the Dublin players (as in considered both hugely talented and general clean players) would seem to lead likes of Fenton getting the benefit of the doubt
pmurphy (Meath) - Posts: 6 - 24/06/2019 22:29:40
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Fenton should have had some breed of a card for his deliberate foul.
I'm not convinced it was a black but definitely a yellow.
I don't remember any other obvious ones but Dublin are good at systematic fouling. Also, all champions in all sports get the benefit of sympathetic refereeing, especially playing at home. That's life I'm afraid.
That's why champions win tight games. You couldn't buy a penalty v Man Utd at old traffird in their hey day.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1115 - 25/06/2019 04:44:45
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Replying To MesAmis: "I don't know Jackeen. I think it's just so ingrained in sports fandom that people no longer think logically when it comes to referees.
The amount of conversations after games that revolve around whatever decisions go against your team. Some people even after a win can't resist going after the ref for what he didn't give to their team. I see it all the time in Dalyer and on the Hill.
It's just so dumb, and makes intelligent people sound and look dumb." Except that many academic studies have shown that the home team generally gets favourable refereeing decisions. Your explanation for Fenton not getting a card: "the referee missed it"; is a pathetic explanation. He didn't miss it, just didn't have the guts to put off the Dubs best player.
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 69 - 25/06/2019 09:30:52
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Replying To benjyyy: "Ah now lads a lot of the giving out about whingers is fair enough and I'm not one for conspiracy theories. But the fact is that Dublin conceded 5 more frees than Meath yet got no cards when Meath got 6 yellows and 1 black. That's a talking point in anyone's book." Fenton probably should've gotten a card but that's about it.
Hardly a massive talking point.
The ref made a mistake, just like the ref will always make a mistake because perfection is impossible. Move on.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 25/06/2019 10:03:28
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Replying To qwerty368: "Except that many academic studies have shown that the home team generally gets favourable refereeing decisions. Your explanation for Fenton not getting a card: "the referee missed it"; is a pathetic explanation. He didn't miss it, just didn't have the guts to put off the Dubs best player." And you know this how? Ever reffed?
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 25/06/2019 10:09:47
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Except that many academic studies have shown that the home team generally gets favourable refereeing decisions. Your explanation for Fenton not getting a card: "the referee missed it"; is a pathetic explanation. He didn't miss it, just didn't have the guts to put off the Dubs best player.
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 44 - 25/06/2019 09:30:52
He missed it.
Just like he missed things that benefited Meath on Sunday too. Don't know where that fits with your theory that he was too gutless to send Fenton off. What does that even mean? Was he afraid of some unknowable consequences if he sent Fenton off? Yet my explanation is pathetic but you would have us believe that the ref somehow saw the infringement, knew it was a black card and decided to not send Fenton off. There is absolutely no logic in your theory. The obvious answer that he made a mistake is somehow a pathetic explanation to you. It's a 4 year old child's argument. You can't give one reason why the referee would not send Fenton from the pitch if he believed that Fenton deserved to go. Plenty of Dublin players black/red carded in big games, most deserved, some mistakes. Not sure where they fit in your junior infants 'it's not fair' crying narrative though.
Giving out about a referee not getting every decision correct is pathetic and makes you come across as really dumb and deserves to be called out as the childishness that is.
As in before a match, you know for a fact that the referee will make errors because it has happened in every game that has ever been played. Yet you still complain.
For the dumb the referee is only human when he makes an error that benefits their team, or in favour of the way they'd like to see the game go, but he is an incompetent (perhaps even corrupt) fool when he makes an error that goes against their team.
It beggars belief how the dumb will tie themselves in knots about refereeing conspiracies and incompetence rather than just accept the truth that referees are human and will make mistakes.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 25/06/2019 10:24:53
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Mes.
Dont know why you're bothering lad. You wont change their minds. Let them have their little tantrum. If it not refereeing decisions its money, population etc.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 25/06/2019 10:44:27
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Replying To benjyyy: "Ah now lads a lot of the giving out about whingers is fair enough and I'm not one for conspiracy theories. But the fact is that Dublin conceded 5 more frees than Meath yet got no cards when Meath got 6 yellows and 1 black. That's a talking point in anyone's book." That is a very interesting stat.
Every reff wants to be considered for the allireland final I suppose, maybe this is part of the deal?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/06/2019 10:44:30
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I wonder is it possible that weaker teams or the loosing side get the benefit of borderline calls and the stronger sides are penalized faster ? There seems to be a bit of a trend.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 25/06/2019 11:14:31
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Replying To MesAmis: "Except that many academic studies have shown that the home team generally gets favourable refereeing decisions. Your explanation for Fenton not getting a card: "the referee missed it"; is a pathetic explanation. He didn't miss it, just didn't have the guts to put off the Dubs best player.
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 44 - 25/06/2019 09:30:52
He missed it.
Just like he missed things that benefited Meath on Sunday too. Don't know where that fits with your theory that he was too gutless to send Fenton off. What does that even mean? Was he afraid of some unknowable consequences if he sent Fenton off? Yet my explanation is pathetic but you would have us believe that the ref somehow saw the infringement, knew it was a black card and decided to not send Fenton off. There is absolutely no logic in your theory. The obvious answer that he made a mistake is somehow a pathetic explanation to you. It's a 4 year old child's argument. You can't give one reason why the referee would not send Fenton from the pitch if he believed that Fenton deserved to go. Plenty of Dublin players black/red carded in big games, most deserved, some mistakes. Not sure where they fit in your junior infants 'it's not fair' crying narrative though.
Giving out about a referee not getting every decision correct is pathetic and makes you come across as really dumb and deserves to be called out as the childishness that is.
As in before a match, you know for a fact that the referee will make errors because it has happened in every game that has ever been played. Yet you still complain.
For the dumb the referee is only human when he makes an error that benefits their team, or in favour of the way they'd like to see the game go, but he is an incompetent (perhaps even corrupt) fool when he makes an error that goes against their team.
It beggars belief how the dumb will tie themselves in knots about refereeing conspiracies and incompetence rather than just accept the truth that referees are human and will make mistakes." It was a blatant black card. How can a referee miss that? Is he blind? A certain goal prevented by a player being dragged down to the ground. Exactly what the black card was brought in for.
As I said before, home teams generally get favorable refereeing decisions. It is a fact and it is supported by academic research. The dubs have had two all Ireland's gifted to them by bad refereeing decisions.
The first step is to take them out of Croke Park for crucial championship matches. It's a scandal that they receive this advantage and people who don't follow gaa find this laughable when the situation is explained to them. It seems to be just thick gaa people who are content with this. (As highlighted by the fact that the other counties voted to keep them in there for the neutral super 8s match)
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 69 - 25/06/2019 11:15:48
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Replying To waynoI: "Mes.
Dont know why you're bothering lad. You wont change their minds. Let them have their little tantrum. If it not refereeing decisions its money, population etc." I know, if someone wants to be dumb let them I suppose.
But I hate the idiocy shown by many, Dubs included, when it comes to referees.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 25/06/2019 11:17:12
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "That is a very interesting stat.
Every reff wants to be considered for the allireland final I suppose, maybe this is part of the deal?" You do understand the rules right?
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 25/06/2019 11:24:17
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It was a blatant black card. How can a referee miss that? Is he blind? A certain goal prevented by a player being dragged down to the ground. Exactly what the black card was brought in for.
As I said before, home teams generally get favorable refereeing decisions. It is a fact and it is supported by academic research. The dubs have had two all Ireland's gifted to them by bad refereeing decisions.
The first step is to take them out of Croke Park for crucial championship matches. It's a scandal that they receive this advantage and people who don't follow gaa find this laughable when the situation is explained to them. It seems to be just thick gaa people who are content with this. (As highlighted by the fact that the other counties voted to keep them in there for the neutral super 8s match)
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 45 - 25/06/2019 11:15:48
He missed it because in the spilt second that he saw it he didn't see it exactly the way you saw it (possibly on TV replays in slow motion from the comfort of your couch).
A certain goal prevented? Not only do you have the amazing ability to know in the exact moment something happens what the correct course of action should be in turns out you also have the ability to see into the future as well. No wonder you think referees should be infallible.
Crying about the 'biased referee' is pathetic.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 25/06/2019 12:26:01
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Replying To MesAmis: "It was a blatant black card. How can a referee miss that? Is he blind? A certain goal prevented by a player being dragged down to the ground. Exactly what the black card was brought in for.
As I said before, home teams generally get favorable refereeing decisions. It is a fact and it is supported by academic research. The dubs have had two all Ireland's gifted to them by bad refereeing decisions.
The first step is to take them out of Croke Park for crucial championship matches. It's a scandal that they receive this advantage and people who don't follow gaa find this laughable when the situation is explained to them. It seems to be just thick gaa people who are content with this. (As highlighted by the fact that the other counties voted to keep them in there for the neutral super 8s match)
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 45 - 25/06/2019 11:15:48
He missed it because in the spilt second that he saw it he didn't see it exactly the way you saw it (possibly on TV replays in slow motion from the comfort of your couch).
A certain goal prevented? Not only do you have the amazing ability to know in the exact moment something happens what the correct course of action should be in turns out you also have the ability to see into the future as well. No wonder you think referees should be infallible.
Crying about the 'biased referee' is pathetic." "Amazing ability to know in the exact moment something happens what the correct course of action should be"
I'm sorry but please let's not confuse things here. It was very very clear that this was a black card and it didn't require any amazing abilities of refereeing to get this one right. This wasn't a square ball situation where it was marginal whether the player was in the square etc
This was a professional foul which prevented the Meath player from having a very good goal scoring opportunity (one on one in the box). Certain goal is obviously an exaggeration but 80 percent likelihood is about right.
What was the referees interpretation of it? What are the other possible interpretations just out of interest? If the Dublin player prevented the clear cut chance (which is why the referee blew up for the foul), then by definition it is a black card. So there is a complete absence of logic to his decision and in my view it can only be explained by the fact that he bottled it.
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 69 - 25/06/2019 14:00:51
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I'm sorry but please let's not confuse things here. It was very very clear that this was a black card and it didn't require any amazing abilities of refereeing to get this one right. This wasn't a square ball situation where it was marginal whether the player was in the square etc
This was a professional foul which prevented the Meath player from having a very good goal scoring opportunity (one on one in the box). Certain goal is obviously an exaggeration but 80 percent likelihood is about right.
What was the referees interpretation of it? What are the other possible interpretations just out of interest? If the Dublin player prevented the clear cut chance (which is why the referee blew up for the foul), then by definition it is a black card. So there is a complete absence of logic to his decision and in my view it can only be explained by the fact that he bottled it.
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 46 - 25/06/2019 14:00:51
He saw it in a split second from field level. He got the free right but didn't think the foul warranted the card. It's easy for you or I from the stand, or from the comfort of our couch or highstool with slow motion replays to see it as an obvious black card but these things might not be as clear cut when seen once at full speed from pitch level.
The above shouldn't be so hard to understand. He got it wrong but it happens because he is human.
These incidents happen in every game of football where the ref gets something wrong. It's time for you to grow up, act like an adult and accept them as part of the game because they are going nowhere.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 25/06/2019 14:47:34
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Replying To MesAmis: "I'm sorry but please let's not confuse things here. It was very very clear that this was a black card and it didn't require any amazing abilities of refereeing to get this one right. This wasn't a square ball situation where it was marginal whether the player was in the square etc
This was a professional foul which prevented the Meath player from having a very good goal scoring opportunity (one on one in the box). Certain goal is obviously an exaggeration but 80 percent likelihood is about right.
What was the referees interpretation of it? What are the other possible interpretations just out of interest? If the Dublin player prevented the clear cut chance (which is why the referee blew up for the foul), then by definition it is a black card. So there is a complete absence of logic to his decision and in my view it can only be explained by the fact that he bottled it.
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 46 - 25/06/2019 14:00:51
He saw it in a split second from field level. He got the free right but didn't think the foul warranted the card. It's easy for you or I from the stand, or from the comfort of our couch or highstool with slow motion replays to see it as an obvious black card but these things might not be as clear cut when seen once at full speed from pitch level.
The above shouldn't be so hard to understand. He got it wrong but it happens because he is human.
These incidents happen in every game of football where the ref gets something wrong. It's time for you to grow up, act like an adult and accept them as part of the game because they are going nowhere." Exactly! Obviously it was a black card. As was McGills pull down on Con but no black card there either.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 25/06/2019 14:58:36
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I think there's some confusion here. .
The appropriate way to phrase the question is "If he gave the free for a pull-down then why didn't he punish the pull down as per the rule-book". For both Fenton and McGill.
Human error happens and real-time vs replays etc. are valid arguments a lot of the time, but not always.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5016 - 25/06/2019 15:12:09
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Replying To MesAmis: "I'm sorry but please let's not confuse things here. It was very very clear that this was a black card and it didn't require any amazing abilities of refereeing to get this one right. This wasn't a square ball situation where it was marginal whether the player was in the square etc
This was a professional foul which prevented the Meath player from having a very good goal scoring opportunity (one on one in the box). Certain goal is obviously an exaggeration but 80 percent likelihood is about right.
What was the referees interpretation of it? What are the other possible interpretations just out of interest? If the Dublin player prevented the clear cut chance (which is why the referee blew up for the foul), then by definition it is a black card. So there is a complete absence of logic to his decision and in my view it can only be explained by the fact that he bottled it.
qwerty368 (Kildare) - Posts: 46 - 25/06/2019 14:00:51
He saw it in a split second from field level. He got the free right but didn't think the foul warranted the card. It's easy for you or I from the stand, or from the comfort of our couch or highstool with slow motion replays to see it as an obvious black card but these things might not be as clear cut when seen once at full speed from pitch level.
The above shouldn't be so hard to understand. He got it wrong but it happens because he is human.
These incidents happen in every game of football where the ref gets something wrong. It's time for you to grow up, act like an adult and accept them as part of the game because they are going nowhere." Only explanation for not giving a card was that the ref thought it was an accidental infringement. It couldn't have been more obviously deliberate. Fair enough not giving a card if he gave a penalty as would have been a double punishment but to give no card was a complete bottle job by the ref - he just hadn't the stomach for doing it. The same ref that yellow carded a Meath player for a very similar foul that resulted in a penalty. No one is saying that it effected the outcome but there should be no place for cowardly refereeing.
gwanyagudthing (Meath) - Posts: 88 - 25/06/2019 15:31:19
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "How did Fenton not get a black card for pulling down the Meath lad going through on goal Gerry?
It was a clear cut black as you'd ever see but nothing not even a yellow." For probably the same reason the meath defender wasn't shown anything for fouling O'Callaghan when through
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 25/06/2019 15:48:08
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "I only watched highlights but I would guess a lot of the frees were cynical and non card worthy in nature designed to stop Meath getting up the pitch quickly, this is a tactic used by all of the top teams but Dublin are absolutely masterful at it." a kerryman bemoaning tactical fouling? shiver me timbers.
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 25/06/2019 15:48:45
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