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New Format For Liam MacCarthy Cup

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Eddie Brennan said that he would like to see the Liam McCarthy expanded to 12 or 16 teams in 5 to 6 years. This format is used in the All-Ireland Senior Camogie Championship. Example: Group 1 Cork Westmeath Laois Limerick Antrim Offaly Wexford Kerry Group 2 Clare Carlow Galway Waterford Meath/Derry Kilkenny Dublin Tipperary I like it. The teams competing in the Joe McDonagh Cup need to compete against the top counties on a regular basis if they want to improve. Brennan said that the tiered system has merit but he is worried about whether teams will perpetually yo-yo between the tiers. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 17/06/2019 11:43:50 2196348 Link
Replying To Hawkeye9212: "Eddie Brennan said that he would like to see the Liam McCarthy expanded to 12 or 16 teams in 5 to 6 years. This format is used in the All-Ireland Senior Camogie Championship. Example: Group 1 Cork Westmeath Laois Limerick Antrim Offaly Wexford Kerry Group 2 Clare Carlow Galway Waterford Meath/Derry Kilkenny Dublin Tipperary I like it. The teams competing in the Joe McDonagh Cup need to compete against the top counties on a regular basis if they want to improve. Brennan said that the tiered system has merit but he is worried about whether teams will perpetually yo-yo between the tiers." I think that was the idea of the Joe McDonagh Cup - to give six teams a competitive platform to improve. With 8 teams in a group I guess the fear is of meaningless matches at the end of the group stages but we sort of have that until now as it is. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 17/06/2019 12:04:36 2196368 Link
Replying To Hawkeye9212: "Eddie Brennan said that he would like to see the Liam McCarthy expanded to 12 or 16 teams in 5 to 6 years. This format is used in the All-Ireland Senior Camogie Championship. Example: Group 1 Cork Westmeath Laois Limerick Antrim Offaly Wexford Kerry Group 2 Clare Carlow Galway Waterford Meath/Derry Kilkenny Dublin Tipperary I like it. The teams competing in the Joe McDonagh Cup need to compete against the top counties on a regular basis if they want to improve. Brennan said that the tiered system has merit but he is worried about whether teams will perpetually yo-yo between the tiers." That looks awful unless these counties improve. There would be regular 40+ point victories in most of the games. LK4Liam (Limerick) - Posts: 19 - 17/06/2019 12:05:35 2196370 Link
Only a few years ago everyone was moaning about pointless games where smaller teams get beat out the gate. Thats why we have what we have now. Some people in the GAA are never happy Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 17/06/2019 12:07:01 2196374 Link
Replying To LK4Liam: "That looks awful unless these counties improve. There would be regular 40+ point victories in most of the games." These counties won't improve unless they play the top teams on a regular basis. I'd err on the side of caution and expand the LM to 12 teams. Mewth, Derry, and Kerry will probably lose by a large margin. I only included those counties because it is the only way to get 16 teams. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 17/06/2019 12:19:25 2196391 Link
Replying To LK4Liam: "That looks awful unless these counties improve. There would be regular 40+ point victories in most of the games." These counties won't improve unless they play the top teams on a regular basis. I'd err on the side of caution and expand the LM to 12 teams. Mewth, Derry, and Kerry will probably lose by a large margin. I only included those counties because it is the only way to get 16 teams. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 17/06/2019 12:19:29 2196392 Link
Replying To Hawkeye9212: "Eddie Brennan said that he would like to see the Liam McCarthy expanded to 12 or 16 teams in 5 to 6 years. This format is used in the All-Ireland Senior Camogie Championship. Example: Group 1 Cork Westmeath Laois Limerick Antrim Offaly Wexford Kerry Group 2 Clare Carlow Galway Waterford Meath/Derry Kilkenny Dublin Tipperary I like it. The teams competing in the Joe McDonagh Cup need to compete against the top counties on a regular basis if they want to improve. Brennan said that the tiered system has merit but he is worried about whether teams will perpetually yo-yo between the tiers." 16 teams is too many. Lots of uncompetitive and pointless games. In addition, it would mean the end of the provincial championships. And that's never gonna happen. For me I can understand 12 teams with Kerry joining the Munster elite. This at least give the two 'lesser' counties a chance of a decent run with the big boys Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 17/06/2019 12:23:17 2196397 Link
Replying To slayer: "I think that was the idea of the Joe McDonagh Cup - to give six teams a competitive platform to improve. With 8 teams in a group I guess the fear is of meaningless matches at the end of the group stages but we sort of have that until now as it is." I don't think any format can prevent meaningless matches. I suppose you could limit the Liam McCarthy (and Sam Maguire) to the top counties only. Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 17/06/2019 12:30:10 2196406 Link
If I can re-post this from another thread - I'd like to see one province and the McDonagh Cup have a 6th team. Here's an example: MUNSTER Tipperary Limerick Cork Clare Waterford LEINSTER Kilkenny Wexford Dublin Galway Carlow Laois or Westmeath McDONAGH Laois or Westmeath Antrim Kerry Offaly Meath Down RING Derry Roscommon Wicklow Kildare London Sligo or Armagh legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 17/06/2019 12:33:56 2196411 Link
Why change it? For years we were moaning about lack of consistent quality matches. Nowt we are getting them in Munster, in Leinster, the Joe Mc, even the Christy Ring and so on. Its excting so what do we want to do...........................change it :(:(:(:(:( witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 17/06/2019 12:34:31 2196413 Link
Replying To witnof: "Why change it? For years we were moaning about lack of consistent quality matches. Nowt we are getting them in Munster, in Leinster, the Joe Mc, even the Christy Ring and so on. Its excting so what do we want to do...........................change it :(:(:(:(:(" You re spot on. Lads looking to change things for no good reason. What hurling as a sport needs is proper publicity for the Joe Mcdonagh Cup with live tv coverage, and proper highlights on the Sunday Game to boost interest in those counties. Also proper coaching programs for underage teams funded by central council, and hurling 365 type initiatives in all the national schools. Hopefully this would boost interest in the sport in these counties and therefore playing numbers. And as more people play, so more clubs field teams and then more clubs attain senior status. And then the county teams minor and u21 should get better and eventually this would would filter up to the senior teams. O Cusack said all of us would be failing the sport if there are only the same 8 teams in with a realistic shout of Liam in 10 years time. I think it would take longer. But the journey that isnt even started yet will never be completed..... Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11893 - 17/06/2019 16:15:36 2196619 Link
Replying To witnof: "Why change it? For years we were moaning about lack of consistent quality matches. Nowt we are getting them in Munster, in Leinster, the Joe Mc, even the Christy Ring and so on. Its excting so what do we want to do...........................change it :(:(:(:(:(" 9 teams sorry Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11893 - 17/06/2019 16:17:26 2196623 Link
There will always be a team "just below" the standard of the higher grade. These teams need to focus on the league. I am also fed up of everybody thinking it is up to the Leinster championship to expand to all these development projects. I don't believe Laois or Westmeath can't make the step up but they need to focus on the league where they do get games against top teams. What is definitely happened though is that as Brian Carroll says the top counties have pulled the ladder up behind them and don't really care about the development of hurling. Its only 2-3 years ago since Cork put 10 goals past Laois, would that not happen again? StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 17/06/2019 16:38:30 2196633 Link
Replying To Viking66: "You re spot on. Lads looking to change things for no good reason. What hurling as a sport needs is proper publicity for the Joe Mcdonagh Cup with live tv coverage, and proper highlights on the Sunday Game to boost interest in those counties. Also proper coaching programs for underage teams funded by central council, and hurling 365 type initiatives in all the national schools. Hopefully this would boost interest in the sport in these counties and therefore playing numbers. And as more people play, so more clubs field teams and then more clubs attain senior status. And then the county teams minor and u21 should get better and eventually this would would filter up to the senior teams. O Cusack said all of us would be failing the sport if there are only the same 8 teams in with a realistic shout of Liam in 10 years time. I think it would take longer. But the journey that isnt even started yet will never be completed....." This is a post I sent earlier on another thread regarding developing and promoting the game outside of the big 9. I genuinely do not believe the powers that be are interested or even want it. The suits decided 15 or so years ago to promote and develop hurling in Dublin. I genuinely believe that this was a financial investment decision and nothing other than that. To be fair to all involved in Dublin GAA, the funding has been spent wisely and sound structures were built to support the game long term. If the will and finances were and continue to be there to promote and develop hurling so successfully in Dublin, why hasn't it been replicated elsewhere when it can be executed at a fraction of the cost? Of course it is not only about funding. The marketing and promotion of our 2nd tier competition and participants is non existent. (Unbelievably the winners of last year's competition got zero tv coverage this year). In addition the promotion/relegation issue needs to be reassessed. The core of the problem though is that many of the county boards do not want competitive sides in both codes. I am no fan of the big ball game but what has been allowed to happen to Wexford football over the last 10 years is atrocious. Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 17/06/2019 17:24:08 2196664 Link
Replying To witnof: "Why change it? For years we were moaning about lack of consistent quality matches. Nowt we are getting them in Munster, in Leinster, the Joe Mc, even the Christy Ring and so on. Its excting so what do we want to do...........................change it :(:(:(:(:(" There's loads of great matches. There's a lot of evenly matched teams and it's been great for the game, a vast improvement on what was there before. There are some big structural problems with the format caused by rushing it through and the politics that was involved with keeping everyone happy. There are parts to the competition that really can potentially hurt the integrity of the competition. There's other aspects of it that are just unfair. Particularly Kerry's promotion requires them to take part in a playoff with a Munster county when others would go straight into the Leinster championship when winning the Joe McDonagh. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 17/06/2019 18:31:12 2196708 Link
Replying To LK4Liam: "That looks awful unless these counties improve. There would be regular 40+ point victories in most of the games." With the exception of Derry and meath, who would be beat by 40+ points there? dakid (Australia) - Posts: 285 - 17/06/2019 18:36:20 2196711 Link
Replying To witnof: "Why change it? For years we were moaning about lack of consistent quality matches. Nowt we are getting them in Munster, in Leinster, the Joe Mc, even the Christy Ring and so on. Its excting so what do we want to do...........................change it :(:(:(:(:(" To get more teams playing at the highest level. Only one team outside the top 9 can join and then it's only for a year. Counties like Carlow, Kerry, Westmeath, Leix and Antrim need to be playing the top teams for years to get to the higher level. I think the future is 12 teams made up of 2 provinces of 6 counties. Gives 3 of the mcdonagh counties an extended chance playing the top counties. carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 17/06/2019 19:05:51 2196729 Link
Replying To carlovia: "To get more teams playing at the highest level. Only one team outside the top 9 can join and then it's only for a year. Counties like Carlow, Kerry, Westmeath, Leix and Antrim need to be playing the top teams for years to get to the higher level. I think the future is 12 teams made up of 2 provinces of 6 counties. Gives 3 of the mcdonagh counties an extended chance playing the top counties." What about having two three-team groups in Munster and 3x3 In Leinster/other? Top two from Munster round-robin into semis. Top team in each Leinster group into semis and other 3 play off for remaining place. Bottom of each group go into relegation playoff. One team gets relegated each year. Each team has minimum of 3 games, most have 4+. True, there might be some big score differences, but there could be shocks too in time. It's all ok having teams playing at their own level but if you're really going to develop a team, they also need full on games against the best more regularly. For 5 bottom teams, they could still go into a shield (Joe McDonagh type) competition. The 'big boys' that finish bottom could use this to blood new players etc. for the next year... Observer23 (UK) - Posts: 17 - 17/06/2019 21:15:38 2196784 Link
Replying To carlovia: "To get more teams playing at the highest level. Only one team outside the top 9 can join and then it's only for a year. Counties like Carlow, Kerry, Westmeath, Leix and Antrim need to be playing the top teams for years to get to the higher level. I think the future is 12 teams made up of 2 provinces of 6 counties. Gives 3 of the mcdonagh counties an extended chance playing the top counties." Playing the top teams regularly will do you no good unless you can develop a bigger better club championship in those counties to increase the number of top players you can pick from. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11893 - 17/06/2019 21:30:41 2196793 Link
when are you playing all these matches? there's clubs out there too you know. i can guarantee you that all it will take is for a few hidings for questions to be asked about structure,realistic ambition,etc perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 17/06/2019 22:36:30 2196842 Link