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Eoin Murphy's Tackle - Wexford V Kilkenny

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Liam Ryan turned to give a fair shoulder, if Mullen didn't get the memo he will learn fast!

I agree O'Hanlon was a bad tackle but a red card? Come off it. It almost cost us the match and our place in the championship.

If a full-back came out like a goalkeeper does, (I am not referring to Murphy any more as I think it is something keepers get away with) and collided with a player like that, there would be hell to pay.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 551 - 20/06/2019 16:09:08    2198028

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Liam Ryan turned to give a fair shoulder, if Mullen didn't get the memo he will learn fast!

I agree O'Hanlon was a bad tackle but a red card? Come off it. It almost cost us the match and our place in the championship.

If a full-back came out like a goalkeeper does, (I am not referring to Murphy any more as I think it is something keepers get away with) and collided with a player like that, there would be hell to pay."
I don't see why the tackle potentially costing Wexford the match should come into an assessment of the tackle itself. In my opinion, ignoring O'Hanlon's antics through out the game and taking the 'tackle' in isolation, while it was a cheap shot I think a yellow was enough

I did think Liam Ryan could easily have been blown for charging, but I'm glad he wasn't and I'd hate to see that as it would be further evidence of the sanitisation of the game.

Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 143 - 20/06/2019 17:32:50    2198057

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Its often simply too easy to just blame the ref.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 1964 - 20/06/2019 09:41:40 2197836

Nail on head."
It's also a cop out to say that officials including the referee have no bearing on games. If they didn't you wouldn't have the likes of Davy and Cody and others berating them publicly and trying to influence them. In a tight game calls or no-calls by the referee or umpires are crucial. The last day in Parnell Pk a Galway forward was pole axed in the square by the Dublin keeper and the ref ignored it. It was an obvious penalty. The Dublin penalty was correctly awarded but the foul on the Galway forward was more dangerous but no penalty given. I'm not complaining about Dublin's win, they may have won anyway but these decisions do have a bearing on the game and on the mentality of the players during the match.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 772 - 20/06/2019 19:07:38    2198090

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Nicky English is a terrible commentator. So boring to listen to. I enjoy sky's coverage but the match commentators need a massive improvement for both football and hurling.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2899 - 20/06/2019 20:05:52    2198107

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The level of fouling in hurling that is let go is steadily rising .. I watched this match and inmediatey said to young lad .. penalty and red card for keeper .. was stunned at the commentators .. but hell im not from Fiji in from Fermanagh and sure what would I know ;-)

KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 174 - 20/06/2019 21:42:07    2198133

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "Nicky English is a terrible commentator. So boring to listen to. I enjoy sky's coverage but the match commentators need a massive improvement for both football and hurling."
fully agree.imagine the excitement of somebody like tommy walsh on co commentator.i also agree with our kk friend above that o hanlon was a cheap shot but a yellow was fair enough punishment

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3496 - 21/06/2019 15:07:10    2198318

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For Tipp's third goal in the Final, Eoin Murphy did the exact same thing as in the Wexford game. He came out flying, both feet off the ground, intent on taking man first and hopefully the ball. This time Bubbles was too fast for him, for sure he knew what was coming, and didn't delay on the ball. It's time the refs started to pull him up on this. If he had connected with Bubbles would James Owens have issued another red?

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 267 - 20/08/2019 09:18:38    2227771

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Replying To Sindar:  "For Tipp's third goal in the Final, Eoin Murphy did the exact same thing as in the Wexford game. He came out flying, both feet off the ground, intent on taking man first and hopefully the ball. This time Bubbles was too fast for him, for sure he knew what was coming, and didn't delay on the ball. It's time the refs started to pull him up on this. If he had connected with Bubbles would James Owens have issued another red?"
Don't agree, he was trying to throw himself in front of the ball like any good keeper would. What do you want him to do, stand on the line and leave the hole goal open. Can't remember the Wexford incident but saw nothing wrong with the 3rd goal.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 20/08/2019 10:26:26    2227800

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "When did that happen? First I have heard about it so its probably made up....."
So I am not the only one that thinks he makes stuff up Interesting.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2284 - 20/08/2019 13:16:07    2227871

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Replying To Sindar:  "For Tipp's third goal in the Final, Eoin Murphy did the exact same thing as in the Wexford game. He came out flying, both feet off the ground, intent on taking man first and hopefully the ball. This time Bubbles was too fast for him, for sure he knew what was coming, and didn't delay on the ball. It's time the refs started to pull him up on this. If he had connected with Bubbles would James Owens have issued another red?"
Yeah leg breaking tackle in the making. Whoever me connects with better not go down though, the whole of Kilkenny will be calling him soft!

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2899 - 20/08/2019 13:50:08    2227888

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Replying To Faithfull:  "Don't agree, he was trying to throw himself in front of the ball like any good keeper would. What do you want him to do, stand on the line and leave the hole goal open. Can't remember the Wexford incident but saw nothing wrong with the 3rd goal."
The goal itself wasn't the problem. Bubbles didn't hang about because he knew if he did he'd be taken out by whatever means were necessary. It was a lunge from Murphy with both legs leading in a dive but he was too far from him in this instance so there was no foul. If he wanted to be brave and block the ball he'd have stayed up and spread himself as much as possible. The intent was to take the player out with no attempt whatsover to play the ball. 00:57 on this probably illegal clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6umD_UKk3A

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 267 - 20/08/2019 16:34:39    2227945

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Replying To Sindar:  "The goal itself wasn't the problem. Bubbles didn't hang about because he knew if he did he'd be taken out by whatever means were necessary. It was a lunge from Murphy with both legs leading in a dive but he was too far from him in this instance so there was no foul. If he wanted to be brave and block the ball he'd have stayed up and spread himself as much as possible. The intent was to take the player out with no attempt whatsover to play the ball. 00:57 on this probably illegal clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6umD_UKk3A"
Use the Settings button on Youtube to set the playback speed to 0.25 and watch it again. He was doing two things (1) trying to block the shot with the hurl, thus spreading himself as much as possible, and (2) trying to get as much of his body in the way as possible. The challenge against Wexford was dirty. I don't think this one was.

stpats1886 (Limerick) - Posts: 7 - 20/08/2019 17:47:16    2227966

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If you want to see a truly dangerous 'tackle' by a hurling goalie just click on the link below. This happened at the end of October last and, certainly up until a couple of weeks ago , the injured forward hadn't been fit to play. There is a KK connection in that a former KK senior keeper was enlisted to assist in the appeal by the Ballyboden goalie against a proposed 2-match ban.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAIQqlvHjLA

Whoisthis (Dublin) - Posts: 1 - 20/08/2019 22:06:35    2228032

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Replying To Sindar:  "I'm just wondering am I the only one who saw Eoin Murphy's "tackle" in the first half of Wexford v Kilkenny. Minute 23 if you have a recording. I have one but doubt they'll let me post it.. What suprises me most is that not a single commentator either live or on The SG even mentioned it. Not only was it a penalty to Wexford but it was a red card also. Had O'Connor's foot been planted at the time of the "tackle" he'd be in hospital today with it in a cast and season and maybe career over. To his credit he got up and limped away more embarrassed by the lost opportunity than the injury he sustained.
I can't help feel that if this was football, The SG panelists would be up in arms and the Leinster CCC would be forced to take a look this week. All Nicky English could muster was "Eoin Murphy gets something on it"."
I seen it and thought too it was a penalty, and a yellow card at most, but, and this is the but, apparently the ref had whisted (or was whistling) for the tug just outside the area, and only Kilkenny would get away with that outcome..people said later in the game their was a similar incident where a a Tipp player (Ime wondering was it the goalie Brian Hogan) apparently put the hand in over the shoulder of a Kilkenny player and flipped him over, the fans I talk to seem to think it was a red card (or at least a yellow)..all I will say is that it was an attempt to stall the player and if the attacker pulls outward, they will flip over, is it a dangerous tackle, yes probably, is it a sending off?..no..the millions of fans whom have a love affair with Brian Cody and Kilkenny, even here in Offaly, whom they pulverised with beatings and couldnt beat us by enough in some games, are out left right and centre defending Kilkenny and in particular the Richie Hogan sending off..my view on Hogans sending off is: first incident with Hogan and Barrett: Richie Hogan was coming away the ball, it was close quaters, Barrett attempted to flic the ball away, ill judged, yes, he caught Hogans helmet, which cut his nose (watch it,Barretts hurl hits the helmet not the face- this is important). A yellow card yes, a red card NO..second incident where Hogan got sent off: ball heading for sideline, two players converge for it, Barrett gets there just ahead of Barrett, Barrett, gets to ball, Hogan knows he has been beaten, his momentum is fast BUT, and here is the important bit, as Barrett draws out of the tackle, Hogan sticks out his elbow, yes his elbow which is part of his arm, (some seem to think they are two totally different locations on the body, but for those who think that,they are the one limb!!) Hogan could, and should have kept his elbow/arm in,BUT HE DIDNT...minimum, he caught the wire of Barretts helmet ( I think his elbow went through the wire to be honest, just my view of it)...Barretts head wobbled at speed EVEN IN SLOW MOTION...very hard to exagerate the shaking of ones head from a rattle like that, but apparently Barrett has it perfected to even look good in slow motion...in a nutshell, Hogan,in my view, was out to balance the books with Barrett (unfairly, as Barretts hit on him was in the haste of play in on the field, play was continously live,, with the ball not going dead) Hogans tackle was out on the sideline,when other players were a bit away and the sideline available to kill play...Hogan took his chance and it it didnt work out...to hear so called hurling pundits (and locals who hate Tipp and love Kilkenny) defend that red card Hogan got, and try to equate Barretts hit on Hogan earlier, is embarrassing and blinkered. Henry Shefflin almost let the "old Kilkenny trump card" out of the bag at one stage, saying "If Brian Gavin was....." and he was interfupted by some one els on the panel..he was going to say Brian Gavin wouldnt have given a red, and you know he was righ on that, but Brian Gavin and other referees let some woeful hits go in the past while Kilkenny were banking their 4 in a row, and Kilkenny seemed to be the benefactors...I will name two: Eddie Brennans elbow (yes another elbow) on Seamus Hickey of Limerick very early in the 2007 All Ireland, Hickey was having a really super year (I think it was his first in a Limerick jersey, Brennan should have walked,dont care about "ruining the game so early" thats not the referees job, his job is to appply the rules. Diarumit Kirwan was the rer, and Brennan went on to win man of the match!!.another farcial one was in the final in 2011 where Tommy Walsh swung his hurl in a fracas at a Tipp player, in doing so he hit Brian Gavin and cut his nose, Gavin booked Walsh, not for hitting him,but for swiniging his hurl at the Tipp player, sure I could be here all night, Kilkenny people will say what about this and what about that incident, show me a game they lost as a result, there arent too many, and I doubt if any were the All ireland final..interestingly since the rough play has been clamped down on over the last few years Kilkenny havent been as dominant, but I suppose one will say they cant be at the top the whole time...I personally think its defending the indefensible trying to defend Richie Hogans red card, and comparing that incincent to other infield incidents are not matching the same type and scenario of incident..I dont think Richie Hogan is a dirty player, but he deserved to go on Sunday...I still think Tipp would have won, maybe not by 14 points, but Tipps subs were better all year, Kilkennys starting 15 was always questionable all year, and not all their subs were as good as the media talked them up beforehand in the build up to the final..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 340 - 21/08/2019 00:32:54    2228056

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Replying To Whoisthis:  "If you want to see a truly dangerous 'tackle' by a hurling goalie just click on the link below. This happened at the end of October last and, certainly up until a couple of weeks ago , the injured forward hadn't been fit to play. There is a KK connection in that a former KK senior keeper was enlisted to assist in the appeal by the Ballyboden goalie against a proposed 2-match ban.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAIQqlvHjLA"
Jeez, people really are contorting themselves to try find a Kilkenny connection to any form of dangerous play, in any hurling match, ever.

I heard there was a dangerous tackle in a club match in Galway once and rumour has it that one of the stewards at the match was originally from Kilkenny.

Coincidence? I think not.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1082 - 21/08/2019 02:23:14    2228062

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I posted about the Rory O'Connor incident myself on another forum after it happened back in June. Am still convinced it was highly dangerous and should have been red.

Didn't notice Sunday's one when it happened but have had a look now and agree it was potentially dangerous too. Murphy again led with the feet and with studs up when going to try close down the forward. If he'd been out quicker, or if Bubbles had taken a step or two forward, it could have been a leg-breaker too.

Used to play in goal myself in soccer during the winter months and sometimes in gaelic football too, and you'd never consider coming out like that to try close an angle when somebody's about to shoot. Why do some people here seem tot think it's okay for Murphy to do that in hurling?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 119 - 21/08/2019 14:15:08    2228228

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Replying To stpats1886:  "Use the Settings button on Youtube to set the playback speed to 0.25 and watch it again. He was doing two things (1) trying to block the shot with the hurl, thus spreading himself as much as possible, and (2) trying to get as much of his body in the way as possible. The challenge against Wexford was dirty. I don't think this one was."
Have just watched it a few times at 0.25 speed, and if anything, it looks far worse that way. He put the hurl up behind him (over his left shoulder) and both feet out in front. If you're really trying to spread yourself as much as possible, and get your hurl near the ball, then you dive forward head-first and with your hurl in front. Going feet first, with studs up, is just plain dangerous.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 119 - 21/08/2019 14:28:50    2228234

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I seen it and thought too it was a penalty, and a yellow card at most, but, and this is the but, apparently the ref had whisted (or was whistling) for the tug just outside the area, and only Kilkenny would get away with that outcome..people said later in the game their was a similar incident where a a Tipp player (Ime wondering was it the goalie Brian Hogan) apparently put the hand in over the shoulder of a Kilkenny player and flipped him over, the fans I talk to seem to think it was a red card (or at least a yellow)..all I will say is that it was an attempt to stall the player and if the attacker pulls outward, they will flip over, is it a dangerous tackle, yes probably, is it a sending off?..no..the millions of fans whom have a love affair with Brian Cody and Kilkenny, even here in Offaly, whom they pulverised with beatings and couldnt beat us by enough in some games, are out left right and centre defending Kilkenny and in particular the Richie Hogan sending off..my view on Hogans sending off is: first incident with Hogan and Barrett: Richie Hogan was coming away the ball, it was close quaters, Barrett attempted to flic the ball away, ill judged, yes, he caught Hogans helmet, which cut his nose (watch it,Barretts hurl hits the helmet not the face- this is important). A yellow card yes, a red card NO..second incident where Hogan got sent off: ball heading for sideline, two players converge for it, Barrett gets there just ahead of Barrett, Barrett, gets to ball, Hogan knows he has been beaten, his momentum is fast BUT, and here is the important bit, as Barrett draws out of the tackle, Hogan sticks out his elbow, yes his elbow which is part of his arm, (some seem to think they are two totally different locations on the body, but for those who think that,they are the one limb!!) Hogan could, and should have kept his elbow/arm in,BUT HE DIDNT...minimum, he caught the wire of Barretts helmet ( I think his elbow went through the wire to be honest, just my view of it)...Barretts head wobbled at speed EVEN IN SLOW MOTION...very hard to exagerate the shaking of ones head from a rattle like that, but apparently Barrett has it perfected to even look good in slow motion...in a nutshell, Hogan,in my view, was out to balance the books with Barrett (unfairly, as Barretts hit on him was in the haste of play in on the field, play was continously live,, with the ball not going dead) Hogans tackle was out on the sideline,when other players were a bit away and the sideline available to kill play...Hogan took his chance and it it didnt work out...to hear so called hurling pundits (and locals who hate Tipp and love Kilkenny) defend that red card Hogan got, and try to equate Barretts hit on Hogan earlier, is embarrassing and blinkered. Henry Shefflin almost let the "old Kilkenny trump card" out of the bag at one stage, saying "If Brian Gavin was....." and he was interfupted by some one els on the panel..he was going to say Brian Gavin wouldnt have given a red, and you know he was righ on that, but Brian Gavin and other referees let some woeful hits go in the past while Kilkenny were banking their 4 in a row, and Kilkenny seemed to be the benefactors...I will name two: Eddie Brennans elbow (yes another elbow) on Seamus Hickey of Limerick very early in the 2007 All Ireland, Hickey was having a really super year (I think it was his first in a Limerick jersey, Brennan should have walked,dont care about "ruining the game so early" thats not the referees job, his job is to appply the rules. Diarumit Kirwan was the rer, and Brennan went on to win man of the match!!.another farcial one was in the final in 2011 where Tommy Walsh swung his hurl in a fracas at a Tipp player, in doing so he hit Brian Gavin and cut his nose, Gavin booked Walsh, not for hitting him,but for swiniging his hurl at the Tipp player, sure I could be here all night, Kilkenny people will say what about this and what about that incident, show me a game they lost as a result, there arent too many, and I doubt if any were the All ireland final..interestingly since the rough play has been clamped down on over the last few years Kilkenny havent been as dominant, but I suppose one will say they cant be at the top the whole time...I personally think its defending the indefensible trying to defend Richie Hogans red card, and comparing that incincent to other infield incidents are not matching the same type and scenario of incident..I dont think Richie Hogan is a dirty player, but he deserved to go on Sunday...I still think Tipp would have won, maybe not by 14 points, but Tipps subs were better all year, Kilkennys starting 15 was always questionable all year, and not all their subs were as good as the media talked them up beforehand in the build up to the final.."
Ok for a starters, I'm not here to argue the rights or wrongs of the the red card. It can't be changed, we all move on.

But some of your post is just mad. Regarding Barrett's tackle on Hogan, whether the hurl hit his helmet or his face does not change the fact it was head high. The whole purpose of the face guard is to protect your face. The fact Hogan has a face guard does not change anything. It is not important that his helmet face guard did what it is designed to do, it is completely irrelevant. That argument beggars belief. Like, if I (god forbid) knock you off your bike and you get hurt, can I defend myself by saying that I didn't hit you, I hit your bike? To me that seems to be you rationale but makes no sense, of course I can't defend myself in that way. A yellow card yes, a red card NO

Secondly, regarding hogans challenge on Barrett. I agree, Barrett gets to the ball, just before Hogan as you said yourself. He attempts to side-step / step back, whichever way. As you acknowledge Hogan was travelling fast. I'm no genius but from my basic knowledge of physics, momentum carries and it takes time to stop. Unless you are sprinting without holding anything, it is extremely difficult to run without your elbow being out some small distance from your body. Obviously I don't know what height you are, but pick up a hurl and sprint as fast as you can and mimic shouldering another player shoulder to shoulder. Your arm will be away from your body. otherwise you will be dragging the hurl along the ground after you. So if you are 5ft 10, and use a 36 hurl, the length of your arm and the length of the hurl are will more than reach the ground. And to say his elbow went through the face guard is bonkers altogether. Try fitting your elbow through one.

I had only read to this point in your post but have since read on regarding other incidents and asking to show you a game that we lost because of a particular incident. Just because you win a match, it doesn't give the other team free reign to do what they want to you. What about Michael Rice missing an All Ireland final in 2012 because of a brutal pull by Padraic Maher who should have been sent off for that incident and 2 more afterwards in the match. What about TJ Reid missing a club championship in 2012 with a fractured kneecap because Iarlaith tannion pulled across his knee as Reid got past him. Were those incidents ok because Kilkenny won?

A head high challenge is a head high challenge. There needs to be consistency. Richie hogan was the victim of what was in my opinion a far worse challenge by Bill Cooper v Cork, no intent to hit his head but reckless and endangered Hogan. Guess who was reffing. James Owens. Consistent? Cillian Buckley probably got away with one in the semi final. Jason Forde got away with catching Eoin Murphy around the neck with his arm / hurl in the second half. Consistency of decisions is important but isn't shown.

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 21/08/2019 17:27:03    2228309

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RE my post above:
"Unless you are sprinting without holding anything, it is extremely difficult to run without your elbow being out some small distance from your body".

To clarify, I meant to say without your arm bent at the elbow and being some small distance from your body.

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 21/08/2019 17:43:51    2228313

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