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Kerry V Offaly (Hurling)

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The loser on Saturday will be relegated to the Ring Cup. Offaly have a lifeline. Are they likely to take it? legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 09/06/2019 15:22:42 2192170 Link
Kerry always difficult to beat and Conway in great form. Offaly in serious trouble carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 09/06/2019 15:52:32 2192191 Link
Offaly have a habit of getting wins over our crowd even when they are not going well. It's going to be tough. Should the McDonagh Cup expand to two groups of 5? It'll give counties an opportunity to establish themselves at that level. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 09/06/2019 16:42:58 2192215 Link
This does absolutely nothing to promote hurling in either county, its a shame really. Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1913 - 09/06/2019 16:55:44 2192223 Link
Replying To Bon: "This does absolutely nothing to promote hurling in either county, its a shame really." Disgraceful is a bit strong. Carlow, Laois, Westmeath, Antrim, Offaly, Kerry, Meath, Derry, Down, Roscommon, Wicklow, Kildare and London have to lobby for the change. Two groups of 5 needs to be brought as a motion by these counties: - The group winners can enter the preliminary quarter-finals against provincial 3rd placed teams. - 2nd and 3rd can enter McDonagh Cup quarter-finals. 2nd placed teams given home advantage. - Group winners can be given home advantage in the semi-finals. It takes a bit of joined up thinking my the affected counties to bring about change. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 09/06/2019 18:14:02 2192259 Link
Replying To Bon: "This does absolutely nothing to promote hurling in either county, its a shame really." But isn't this how tiered competitions should work, a team gets relegated, and replaced by a team that gets promoted? Kerry and Offaly have 4 games in the competition, just like all the other Joe McDonagh teams. If a team finishes in bottom spot, thats a result of how they played in the competition. Just like the team that wins the Christy Ring gets promoted, because they've been the best team in that competition. And before someone points it out, I do actually think the bottom team in Munster should face the possibility of relegation as well, its a flaw in the current system, but thats another conversation probably. The Championships need to be real competitions, otherwise you're just playing exhibition matches. Sure, its not good for the county that gets relegated, but it is good for the team that gets promoted. And thats good for promoting hurling in general, because a new team next year will get a run in the Joe McDonagh with the possibility of going on to play in the AI series. And Offaly or Kerry will have a chance to re-gain promotion by performing well in the Christy Ring next year. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 09/06/2019 19:01:21 2192310 Link
Replying To Marlon_JD: "But isn't this how tiered competitions should work, a team gets relegated, and replaced by a team that gets promoted? Kerry and Offaly have 4 games in the competition, just like all the other Joe McDonagh teams. If a team finishes in bottom spot, thats a result of how they played in the competition. Just like the team that wins the Christy Ring gets promoted, because they've been the best team in that competition. And before someone points it out, I do actually think the bottom team in Munster should face the possibility of relegation as well, its a flaw in the current system, but thats another conversation probably. The Championships need to be real competitions, otherwise you're just playing exhibition matches. Sure, its not good for the county that gets relegated, but it is good for the team that gets promoted. And thats good for promoting hurling in general, because a new team next year will get a run in the Joe McDonagh with the possibility of going on to play in the AI series. And Offaly or Kerry will have a chance to re-gain promotion by performing well in the Christy Ring next year." Fair comment Marlon. I'm sure whoever will be relegated will take their medicine. At the same time there has to be a discussion about the McDonagh and Ring. I don't think the current structure encourages a vibrant competition at these levels. Two groups of 5 teams at McDonagh Cup level can bring a better balance. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 09/06/2019 19:56:46 2192345 Link
Have to say I hate the idea of 2 groups of 5 in the mcdonagh cup. It's too big a jump from the mcdonagh cup to senior as it is. Another 5 teams in it will dilute its standard. The mcdonagh cup has been so competitive the last 2 years and needs to be allowed develop. We can't keep changing the structure every year. Except maybe this year to allow Carlow to stay up !! carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 09/06/2019 20:19:57 2192362 Link
Replying To carlovia: "Have to say I hate the idea of 2 groups of 5 in the mcdonagh cup. It's too big a jump from the mcdonagh cup to senior as it is. Another 5 teams in it will dilute its standard. The mcdonagh cup has been so competitive the last 2 years and needs to be allowed develop. We can't keep changing the structure every year. Except maybe this year to allow Carlow to stay up !!" I know we can't keep changing structure. I just don't think they've found the right balance at this level. It was harsh on Meath to be relegated last year. We have a Top 10 in the provincial championships. I think we need the Second 10 in the McDonagh Cup. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 09/06/2019 21:40:50 2192438 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Fair comment Marlon. I'm sure whoever will be relegated will take their medicine. At the same time there has to be a discussion about the McDonagh and Ring. I don't think the current structure encourages a vibrant competition at these levels. Two groups of 5 teams at McDonagh Cup level can bring a better balance." Yeah, I do think the current tiered structure needs to be revisited. But I think its worth remembering the rationale for setting up the McDonagh group in the first place; it was for teams that were considered too good for the Ring tier, but not quite good enough to compete in the provincials proper. And its been a vibrant competition, mainly because the teams involved have been so well matched. With respect to all the teams you named above, would teams like Derry, Down, and Roscommon actually be on the same level as the likes of Carlow, Laois, and Westmeath? I'm not so sure. Maybe looking at Division 2A from the league would give some indication, maybe not. I think the structure you've proposed is really what the Christy Ring level was before the McDonagh cup was introduced. But maybe thats an option. I do think 5 championship tiers is too much. But I'd start the cleanup by merging the Lory Meaghar cup into the Nicky Rackard cup. I don't think Meaghar teams are benefiting from the reduced competition there. The Meaghar teams may not have a good a chance of winning the Rackard cup, but they'll be competitive in some games at least, and are more likely to improve. As for expanding the McDonagh group, or just creating a larger Ring competition with McDonagh teams in it, I think you'd have to determine whether the majority of teams in the McDonagh group are closer to Munster/Leinster level or Ring level first. At the moment, its hard to call. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 09/06/2019 22:11:56 2192460 Link
The McDonagh Cup is fine as it is. A really competitive championship between 5 fairly evenly matched sides. Making it a 10 team cup would be crazy. There is a big gap between the likes of Westmeath/Laois etc and the likes of Roscommon/Derry/London etc. The current 1 up/1 down between the All Ireland sides to McDonagh Cup is fine, and same with the Christy Ring. Only change worth making would be the bring in a play off between bottom in Munster and Leinster for relegation to McDonagh. This year is would be Waterford v Carlow, which more than likely Waterford would win, but Carlow should still have the chance of giving it a go. The McDonagh Cup is getting a bit of coverage now finally too, which is well overdue on gaanow. Great to see. The Real 1944 (Carlow) - Posts: 1114 - 09/06/2019 23:44:16 2192530 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Offaly have a habit of getting wins over our crowd even when they are not going well. It's going to be tough. Should the McDonagh Cup expand to two groups of 5? It'll give counties an opportunity to establish themselves at that level." I like the idea of expanding the McDonagh Cup. It might take some counties time to re-adjust but a proper second tier that matches the MacCarthy cup would be superb. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 10/06/2019 09:33:30 2192602 Link
I think Kerry will beat Offaly next week. Kerry have a lot of attacking talent there and although well beaten still posted 1-21 against a well tuned Laois side. I can see them doing similar against Offaly and will surely bee looking to shore up their defense after the goal fest on saturday. I thought they were very competitive against Laois to be honest. (thanks Gaa now for the live feed) That said, as a westmeath man, we always looked up to and admired the achievements of Offaly in the 80's and 90's and would hope that they will now realise that 'rock bottom' is here and arrest the slide. The ring cup would be no walk in the park for either Kerry or Offaly and could be hard to claw out of next year. 35OLT (USA) - Posts: 90 - 10/06/2019 15:34:17 2192991 Link
Kerry are putting up some decent scoring but their defence let's them down. Think Offaly can take them can this year get any worse for them. Losing 2 relegation games is a right kick in the backside. I think they will scrape over Kerry which is a pity as Kerry are a fine team but just always seem to lose key games when it matters most. After 1982 Im sure Kerry would relish sending Offaly packing!!! WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 11/06/2019 00:09:17 2193286 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "I know we can't keep changing structure. I just don't think they've found the right balance at this level. It was harsh on Meath to be relegated last year. We have a Top 10 in the provincial championships. I think we need the Second 10 in the McDonagh Cup." The Mcdonagh cup is a wonderful competition where the standard is very high and every county has the potential to be promoted to the top level or be relegated to Christy Ring. Making it bigger would dilute the competition and make the top teams sloppy and even less lightly to survive in Mccarthy.Carlow have shown the winners can be competitive and that's only year one. Change after one year would be counter productive jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 11/06/2019 08:18:38 2193317 Link
Replying To jobber: "The Mcdonagh cup is a wonderful competition where the standard is very high and every county has the potential to be promoted to the top level or be relegated to Christy Ring. Making it bigger would dilute the competition and make the top teams sloppy and even less lightly to survive in Mccarthy.Carlow have shown the winners can be competitive and that's only year one. Change after one year would be counter productive" At the very least I would allow a 6th team in one of the provinces. The team finishing 6th should be relegated. The team winning the McDonagh Cup should be promoted as the 6th team in their province. Also, I would like to see the McDonagh Cup be at least a 6 team competition. The Christy Ring Cup can also be a 6 team round robin. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 11/06/2019 10:59:24 2193394 Link
Replying To WildPundit: "Kerry are putting up some decent scoring but their defence let's them down. Think Offaly can take them can this year get any worse for them. Losing 2 relegation games is a right kick in the backside. I think they will scrape over Kerry which is a pity as Kerry are a fine team but just always seem to lose key games when it matters most. After 1982 Im sure Kerry would relish sending Offaly packing!!!" Offaly have a problem in defence too, they can put up match winning scores, but concede too much. Players will be low on confidence. I think Kerry might take this one, sad for Offaly, but we have been on the slide for a couple of years. All the best to Joachim and players. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1745 - 11/06/2019 11:01:13 2193396 Link
Kerry playing ok in the first half. Anything can happen in the second half and it usually does! legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 15/06/2019 15:51:58 2195279 Link
Well done to Kerry on the win today, they have put great efforts in to improve over the last 10 years or so. As for Offaly, no point saying anymore than has already been said other than hopefully they will regroup next year in the Christy Ring and bounce back. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/06/2019 16:40:11 2195297 Link
Well done to the Kerry hurlers. Great to remain at the McDonagh Cup level. Kerry 14th in the league and 14th in the championship this year. Commiserations to Offaly. As I've mentioned in another thread, one province should have a 6th team and the McDonagh Cup should have a 6th team as well. It's up to Carlow, McDonagh counties and Ring counties to bring a motion to bring about that change. Is mise le meas, The Legend. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 15/06/2019 16:54:54 2195299 Link