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Dublin V Kildare - Is This Not Being Televised?

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Kildare clubs got together to sack K McG

Do you think that was a good idea considering what happened to Kildare after that?

Do you think that set back Kildare?

How come you lost against Wicklow and Carlow this decade?"
Short term no, long term possibly. No way of knowing for sure either way though.

Same reason teams like Meath and Mayo have lost to Longford, Galway lost to Tipp and Dublin lost to Meath, it's sport, upsets happen, if they didn't then what would be point?

Not sure what McGeeney has to do with the topic at hand though...

What was it you said about deflection again ;)

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 07/06/2019 17:15:11    2191507

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think we sometimes look back on the Leinster Championship with a bit of a golden eye thinking its always been really competitive when that hasnt been the case at all.

In all honesty winning a Leinster Champinonship for Kildare, Laois or Westmeath has been an exceptional year, if Dublin dont win a Leinster title its been an awful year. Dublin have been the strongest county in Leinster since its inception. Meath are second of course.

Kildare only have 13 leinster titles.
Meath 21.

The dominance just didnt start in 2011.

Both have far less then Dublin in fact less then Dublin combined historically.

The reality unfortunately is that no team bar Meath, in Leinster has competed at the top table of GAA to be a consistent threat historically. There has been no super powers who have gone away.

Add that history to this being the best Dublin of all time and in with a fair shout of being the greatest football team of all time and its not hard to work out the logical outcome. In actual reality if all counties in Leinster were playing in a different province you wouldn't be putting hard money down on them to be winning provincial titles, given their historic and current status.

I symaptise, with a low attendance and lack of interest and i understand it. i can understand counties not want to be witnessing a hammering and i can sypathise with Dubs who dont want to watch a lower standard of football and team and entertainment then they are likely to see in the latter part of the championship.

Simply put there is very little to entice a market either for Kildare supporters or Dublin ones. Its very simple in my opinion, if you are selling entertainment, excitement and competitiveness, then customers want to be entertained, excited and competition. Bar watching a great team play some good stuff, we wont see that on Sunday.



The provincials for me are just a waiting around game, like the O Byrne Cup, waiting for the league start.

Hopefully Kildare can prove me wrong on Sunday and to be fair to them they were excellent in the Leinster final a few years ago, but even then it was 9 point victory. I was at that game and there was about 55k there, i was at the Kildare and Armagh game a week later and if there was 4k at the game id be surprised, Kildare can bring a great crowd when there is hope, when there is none the support seems to evaporate, im not sure that has much to do with Dublin. If these wrongly pitched games in terms of standard continue to be played the more they happen the more meaningless they become and no good for anyone. Ill get no excitement if we put up a double digit score on Sun, ill just be checking out how young lads do and having a few pints.

But i do think making arguments about dominance, being new thing is just not dealing correctly with history and reality."
Probably making a mess of it by quoting the whole post but it's hard to disagree with it really.

The biggest difference now though I'd say is the fact that the gap between the team dominating and those trying to play catch up is bigger than ever before.

The only thing fans in a lot of counties have to hold onto is hope, but over the last 2 years with Kildare that hope has slowly wilted for a variety of reasons. Some of them will be apply to other counties, some of them won't.

Kildare, Meath and Offaly all had spells in the past where, despite not dominating the province, they would have expected to be competing at the business end of the championship over the course of a few years at least.

You can say we might look back on previous decades (cue Furlong with a history less :)) with golden eye thinking but despite Dublin dominating in other decades the gap has never been this great, and subsequently the chance of anybody catching them off-guard and causing a shock diminishes.

It's hard to see any county challenge Dublin for 1 year let alone do enough to sustain it over some sort of prolonged period any time soon. Kildare and Meath have both enjoyed relative spells of underage success lately but it's increasingly hard for many fans to see that translate into senior success.

Until that changes, and the sense of hope comes back there's not a lot that will entice casual fans back.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 07/06/2019 17:32:08    2191513

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I am please to see the apathy. Eventually the whole thing will grind to a halt and change will come. Things will continue to fester and stink until we aee leinster's finals with less than 10k at them in 2022, then the GAA will need to start making changes.

Gaelic football is a great sport. Great sports don't die. We just have to continue to vote with our feet for another few years at county level.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 07/06/2019 17:58:10    2191517

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Replying To if_in_doubt:  "Probably making a mess of it by quoting the whole post but it's hard to disagree with it really.

The biggest difference now though I'd say is the fact that the gap between the team dominating and those trying to play catch up is bigger than ever before.

The only thing fans in a lot of counties have to hold onto is hope, but over the last 2 years with Kildare that hope has slowly wilted for a variety of reasons. Some of them will be apply to other counties, some of them won't.

Kildare, Meath and Offaly all had spells in the past where, despite not dominating the province, they would have expected to be competing at the business end of the championship over the course of a few years at least.

You can say we might look back on previous decades (cue Furlong with a history less :)) with golden eye thinking but despite Dublin dominating in other decades the gap has never been this great, and subsequently the chance of anybody catching them off-guard and causing a shock diminishes.

It's hard to see any county challenge Dublin for 1 year let alone do enough to sustain it over some sort of prolonged period any time soon. Kildare and Meath have both enjoyed relative spells of underage success lately but it's increasingly hard for many fans to see that translate into senior success.

Until that changes, and the sense of hope comes back there's not a lot that will entice casual fans back."
Good post a chara, and i dont disagree with much of it.

It comes back to what ive been hinting at all along, that the provincials are actually harming the game in many many ways.

They are seriously impacting on the interest of fans whether they be a unsuccessful or successful, the rising attendances in the league and lower provincial attendance threads are telling us that.

They provide little pathway for a county to grow and develop because the make up of the competition is geographical luck as opposed to comparative standard there is zero pathway there to develop as a team. Its ludicrous to have Dublin and Kerry in a championship playing off against counties in Div 3.

They also present a significant advantage to some counties over others, Dublin and Kerry will be going into the S8's fresh as daisy's, were teams emerging from ulster and Connacht will have taken significant lumps. Its not a coincidence both are the two most successful counties and have dominated their provinces and that is an unfair advantage. As is the variance of number of games in the provinces.

We can all remember great days out in provincial championships, they've had their day and they are on life support at he moment and the undertaker is on speed dial, personally i beleive and hope we are in our final years of them. money will dictate it.

Dublin are a different animal now to anytime in their history, the game has grown so much across the city and its no longer a parochial past time in a few sporadic areas of the city. Dublin will regress somewhat when this team runs out of road, but i wouldst bet on it being long, by what i see coming through and structures in place for future proofing.

Its an interesting subject hope and Kildare, i was around the county in 98 and my god when the troops are mobilized the give Dublin and Mayo a run for the money on numbers. I would have thought and expected this year would be one on an upward curve, Div 1 football, S8s last year, beating Mayo, being competitive with GAlway and Kerry. Seems like the air just went out of the balloon, given the league and draw against Longford (who are no slouches). there is so much potential in Kildare if it can just be tapped into right.

As we stand in Leinster at the moment though and a s Kildare proved, its entirely possible to make the S8's and not even have to play with Dublin. Id acknowledge its a pain in the backside being in Dublin province but with the advent of the backdoor, you can loose against them or like last year not even play them and make the S8's and from there your up against the rest. Thats the way id look at it anyway, Kildare have been the forbears of that.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/06/2019 18:07:32    2191518

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Replying To Daith:  "I am please to see the apathy. Eventually the whole thing will grind to a halt and change will come. Things will continue to fester and stink until we aee leinster's finals with less than 10k at them in 2022, then the GAA will need to start making changes.

Gaelic football is a great sport. Great sports don't die. We just have to continue to vote with our feet for another few years at county level."
The GAA are already adapting. They'll change the structure so you might have only 8, 10 or 12 in the Senior Championship.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 07/06/2019 19:45:35    2191535

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Replying To if_in_doubt:  "Short term no, long term possibly. No way of knowing for sure either way though.

Same reason teams like Meath and Mayo have lost to Longford, Galway lost to Tipp and Dublin lost to Meath, it's sport, upsets happen, if they didn't then what would be point?

Not sure what McGeeney has to do with the topic at hand though...

What was it you said about deflection again ;)"
Why mention him?

Because sometimes it's best to look closer to home to find out your problems.

It's not all the big bad wolfs fault

A wee bit of balance to an argument wouldn't go amiss

There are established counties in Leinster that didn't go out about things very well and it's having a big bearing across this decade.

You had a Kildare manager in place that could have beaten Dublin in 2011 and was damn unlucky not to reach an All Ireland final

He was sacked.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 20:38:39    2191546

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Wexford have on a more regular basis caused Dublin more problems this decade compared to Kildare & Meath.. a hurling first county.

Why?

Kildare have had some excellent underage results against Dublin this decade and challenged for All Ireland titles. Kildare have beaten the unstoppable machine

Why hasn't this been built upon?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 21:02:54    2191550

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Why mention him?

Because sometimes it's best to look closer to home to find out your problems.

It's not all the big bad wolfs fault

A wee bit of balance to an argument wouldn't go amiss

There are established counties in Leinster that didn't go out about things very well and it's having a big bearing across this decade.

You had a Kildare manager in place that could have beaten Dublin in 2011 and was damn unlucky not to reach an All Ireland final

He was sacked."
The reality was we had a team that in 2010 could very well have won an All Ireland. In 2011 we very much should have pushed closer than we did and you can blame refereeing decisions or whatever but the reality was we had a team capable of winning championships that didn't. The sentiment at the time was if we were going to, it wouldn't be under McGeaney who had 7 years and no championship titles. You talk about beating the Dubs in 2011 as if that's and much an achievement as if we were to beat them now. It's not.
It's easy to say looking at how things went after his sack that it was the wrong decision, but at the time, the decision was put to the clubs and the clubs spoke.

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 323 - 07/06/2019 21:09:59    2191553

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I'm really enjoying remembering how shite Meath & Kildare are :)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 21:11:03    2191554

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Replying To Sweetspot:  "The reality was we had a team that in 2010 could very well have won an All Ireland. In 2011 we very much should have pushed closer than we did and you can blame refereeing decisions or whatever but the reality was we had a team capable of winning championships that didn't. The sentiment at the time was if we were going to, it wouldn't be under McGeaney who had 7 years and no championship titles. You talk about beating the Dubs in 2011 as if that's and much an achievement as if we were to beat them now. It's not.
It's easy to say looking at how things went after his sack that it was the wrong decision, but at the time, the decision was put to the clubs and the clubs spoke."
Didn't Dublin win the All Ireland championship in 2011 only losing one game all year to Cork by a single Pt in a NFL Div 1 final..

Yeah brutal Dubs team

On your bike Kieran!

Oh yes the almighty talented Kildare club scene.. good call

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 21:53:17    2191566

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Good post a chara, and i dont disagree with much of it.

It comes back to what ive been hinting at all along, that the provincials are actually harming the game in many many ways.

They are seriously impacting on the interest of fans whether they be a unsuccessful or successful, the rising attendances in the league and lower provincial attendance threads are telling us that.

They provide little pathway for a county to grow and develop because the make up of the competition is geographical luck as opposed to comparative standard there is zero pathway there to develop as a team. Its ludicrous to have Dublin and Kerry in a championship playing off against counties in Div 3.

They also present a significant advantage to some counties over others, Dublin and Kerry will be going into the S8's fresh as daisy's, were teams emerging from ulster and Connacht will have taken significant lumps. Its not a coincidence both are the two most successful counties and have dominated their provinces and that is an unfair advantage. As is the variance of number of games in the provinces.

We can all remember great days out in provincial championships, they've had their day and they are on life support at he moment and the undertaker is on speed dial, personally i beleive and hope we are in our final years of them. money will dictate it.

Dublin are a different animal now to anytime in their history, the game has grown so much across the city and its no longer a parochial past time in a few sporadic areas of the city. Dublin will regress somewhat when this team runs out of road, but i wouldst bet on it being long, by what i see coming through and structures in place for future proofing.

Its an interesting subject hope and Kildare, i was around the county in 98 and my god when the troops are mobilized the give Dublin and Mayo a run for the money on numbers. I would have thought and expected this year would be one on an upward curve, Div 1 football, S8s last year, beating Mayo, being competitive with GAlway and Kerry. Seems like the air just went out of the balloon, given the league and draw against Longford (who are no slouches). there is so much potential in Kildare if it can just be tapped into right.

As we stand in Leinster at the moment though and a s Kildare proved, its entirely possible to make the S8's and not even have to play with Dublin. Id acknowledge its a pain in the backside being in Dublin province but with the advent of the backdoor, you can loose against them or like last year not even play them and make the S8's and from there your up against the rest. Thats the way id look at it anyway, Kildare have been the forbears of that."
You mention rising league attendances a couple of times in the thread, where are you getting that? The GAA's own records show league revenue crept up a bit from 2013 to 2017, taking a small dip again in 2018. Some of this is probably price increases too. No figures available for 2019 yet that I've seen. I think there is more interest in the league now certainly but it seems people are viewing from their couch rather than the stands.

Championship is another story, attendances are falling really sharply, has to be a massive worry at this stage.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 07/06/2019 22:08:46    2191571

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Replying To Sweetspot:  "The reality was we had a team that in 2010 could very well have won an All Ireland. In 2011 we very much should have pushed closer than we did and you can blame refereeing decisions or whatever but the reality was we had a team capable of winning championships that didn't. The sentiment at the time was if we were going to, it wouldn't be under McGeaney who had 7 years and no championship titles. You talk about beating the Dubs in 2011 as if that's and much an achievement as if we were to beat them now. It's not.
It's easy to say looking at how things went after his sack that it was the wrong decision, but at the time, the decision was put to the clubs and the clubs spoke."
The same could also be said for meath, the biggest tragedy for us was we only got 1 leinster between 2007 to 2012 when we had a fabulous team making the all Ireland semi in 07 and 09. That forward line of Bray, Sheridan, ward, o Rourke Farrell and for a few of those years geraghty was sensational dublin had plenty of competition in leinster then but unfortunately for the province dublin have absolutely sky rocketed since then while meath and kildare have regressed massively.

Northsidegaels (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 07/06/2019 22:11:30    2191572

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Didn't Dublin win the All Ireland championship in 2011 only losing one game all year to Cork by a single Pt in a NFL Div 1 final..

Yeah brutal Dubs team

On your bike Kieran!

Oh yes the almighty talented Kildare club scene.. good call"
I mean like McGeeney was a good manager for a few years and had Kildare competing but failing. But let's not rewrite history. Kildare had fallen back a long way under him: knocked out in 2012 by Cork by 13 points after losing in Leinster to Meath by six points. And in 2013 got hammered in Croke Park by Dublin by 16 points.

Cilldara_2000 (Kildare) - Posts: 57 - 08/06/2019 07:14:59    2191608

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The irony of being slagged off because we couldn't maintain the levels of the McGeeney era just show up the ignorance that certain parts of the GAA family have.

I was and remain a McGeeney fan but the facts are that during his time in charge, in trying to keep pace with a then emerging Dublin machine, the senior set up he had in place pretty much bankrupted the county and set us back 4 or 5 years.

He knew that was the only way we could compete and the years since have proved him right.

The GAA world (media and grass roots alongside the top brass) at the time destroyed the county board, Kieran McGeeney and the wider Kildare GAA family for being too loose with our money.

Mayo have had their financial issues too and they're a bigger commercial outfit than Kildare.

By all means though, run the rest of the country down and slag them off for being shite. Don't worry about the real issues or the facts of the matter. Mere side shows to the drive for 5...

SallinsMan (Kildare) - Posts: 77 - 08/06/2019 09:49:19    2191625

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Wexford have on a more regular basis caused Dublin more problems this decade compared to Kildare & Meath.. a hurling first county.

Why?

Kildare have had some excellent underage results against Dublin this decade and challenged for All Ireland titles. Kildare have beaten the unstoppable machine

Why hasn't this been built upon?"
But the only team to beat dub this decade or in last 14 years in Leinster was Meath.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/06/2019 10:10:03    2191633

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Replying To Cilldara_2000:  "I mean like McGeeney was a good manager for a few years and had Kildare competing but failing. But let's not rewrite history. Kildare had fallen back a long way under him: knocked out in 2012 by Cork by 13 points after losing in Leinster to Meath by six points. And in 2013 got hammered in Croke Park by Dublin by 16 points."
Mcgeeney biggest problem was the whole sj fiasco. Did untold damage within the county and made a laughing stock out of Kildare at national level. We all knew it was bunkum, but the persistent level of defending of it from some people made comical alli look like a genius. Mcgeeney was never gonna get the clubs backing after that.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/06/2019 10:22:27    2191635

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If you want a lesson in scapegoating a manager then look no further than Meath . Eamonn O'Brien is still the most successful manager since Sean boylan, after reaching all ire semi in 09 beating dubs in 10 and obtaining Leinster, he was sacked by delegates in Meath. To take heat off them over the whole Louth thing. Still the number one thing that embarrasses me as a Meath man

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/06/2019 12:33:16    2191665

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In response to the thread title, no it is not being televised. Apparently the Dublin players were demanding 6k appearance money......................

ROYALOPTIMIST (Meath) - Posts: 179 - 08/06/2019 12:48:51    2191668

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RTE had'nt got a problem with that but the sticking point came when the Kildare players refused RTE's demand that they pay 6k per player to compensate viewers for the pain and suffering that would arise from having to watch them..........

ROYALOPTIMIST (Meath) - Posts: 179 - 08/06/2019 12:58:26    2191670

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Mcgeeney biggest problem was the whole sj fiasco. Did untold damage within the county and made a laughing stock out of Kildare at national level. We all knew it was bunkum, but the persistent level of defending of it from some people made comical alli look like a genius. Mcgeeney was never gonna get the clubs backing after that."
Apart from the Seanie Johnson affair the manner of C McGeeney departure left a sour taste for many especially the players. The voting was farcical where delegates turned up not knowing that the County Board were going to conduct a vote and you had the even more farcical situation and invalid whereby delegates from hurling clubs were allowed cast their votes on the future of the football manager.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2991 - 08/06/2019 14:06:14    2191689

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