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Dublin V Kildare - Is This Not Being Televised?

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Dublin posters really showing themselves up on this forum, trying to bully and deflect.

There is one huge issue in inter county GAA right now, it's not mass defenses, it's not handpassing, it's not even competition structures... it's the fact that the competition is an absolute farce and is rigged in the favor of one team, Dublin.

Dublin posters can write all the disparaging remarks they want about "farmers" and "culchies" but the GAA has a crisis on its hand and I fear that very soon the show will be over. 30k at a Leinster semi final double header with Dublin, Kildare, Meath and Laois involved is shocking. The fact that Kildare's best player will be sitting at home like so many other fans so as to avoid being humiliated by a financially and demographically doped team to the point of it not even deserving the name of a competition (all thanks to the GAA) is merely a sign of the times.

So on Dublin posters to pretend your achievements are not hugely tainted but the fact that nobody is showing up your matches anymore and RTÉ aren't showing once unmissable games tells us the real story behind your bluster and insults. Ye are only fooling yourselves but it sounds like ye live in a total bubble and cannot see the wood from the trees.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1319 - 07/06/2019 13:56:43    2191449

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "That's not true. The death Bell for munster and leinster started with kerry and Dublin dominating. That's the simple reality. It's a real shame because we had 1 great competition and 1 decent one."
I disagree.

It never felt the same once the back door was introduced.

It completely watered down the importance of each game. Every game was vital. Now it's not. Of course such a circumstance will have a damaging impact when you compare the two scenarios

You are undoubtedly blaming everything on Dublin's dominance while completely ignoring other important factors.

Dublin won 6 in a row in the 70's, numerous titles in the 80's and 4 in a row in the 90's

Even when Dublin were a poor outfit in many areas across the 00's it was still good enough for Pillars team to win consecutive titles in a row.

Leinster problems go way back...

Dublin have always dominated Leinster. I agree things are poor now but sorry a massive chunk of blame resides in the lack of planning seen in a county like Meath with the heritage it has.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 14:05:02    2191453

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Watch and see if there is a Ewen article on the attendance of Sun games and the points being made in this thread on Mon. It would be uncanny coincidence."
Of course there will be

But unfortunately Provisional Championships almost across the board are suffering badly. Numbers are down practically across the board

But this is ignored by some.

For me the back door has greatly impacted their importance and devalued the competitions4

Do or Die

versus

Ahhh sure it'll be grand going through the back door.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 14:12:17    2191455

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Watch and see if there is a Ewen article on the attendance of Sun games and the points being made in this thread on Mon. It would be uncanny coincidence."
Of course there will be

But unfortunately Provisional Championships almost across the board are suffering badly. Numbers are down practically across the board

But this is ignored by some.

For me the back door has greatly impacted their importance and devalued the competitions4

Do or Die

versus

Ahhh sure it'll be grand going through the back door.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 14:12:23    2191456

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Watch and see if there is a Ewen article on the attendance of Sun games and the points being made in this thread on Mon. It would be uncanny coincidence."
Are you saying there is no link between provincial funding for one county board and the gap between the urban fox and the rest?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 07/06/2019 14:16:26    2191457

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It's truly amazing to see the selective ignorance of many Dublin supporters and the GAA hierarchy.

Much like we all laugh at Donald Trumps delusions and guiltless lies, everyone without a blue tinted view or financial skin in the game can see what is going on here. They might scorn at Ewan McKenna but those who believe Dublin's dominance is a cyclical thing that came about purely because of good planning and good coaching are simply delusional themselves.

Grants and financial supports
Population
Home / Away / Neutral pitch advantage
Geography

All these have impacted gaelic football much much more than any coaching regime or structural planning could ever dream of doing.

To the dubs out there that are willing to at least listen to the other point of view, well done on your success, the fans nor the players are to blame for it but at least spare us all the hypocrisy of thinking that all of this is natural and fair.

SallinsMan (Kildare) - Posts: 77 - 07/06/2019 14:29:52    2191461

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Im not sure its particularly a Leinster problem, the Munster semi finals were very poorly attended and Cork Footballers playing in Pairc Ui Rinn with a 100 mill + stadium lying idle, was really sad to see. 4-5k at the other Semi. May o and Roscommon was great crowd, but i think Galway and Sligo was poor, you can see the common theme.

Games broadly are lacking in competition, drama and as such are lacking in draw. Frankly we are limping toward a two tier championship and the tractor beam will be money or rather it being lost.

The league and rising attendances have shown us what is possible with evenly matched competitive games, the market is there, the spectivcle is the problem. the provincials now are just a poor relation, they are process of people hanging around through loyalty and waiting for the quality opposition to play each other, lets call it what it is.

Bar Mayo and Roscommon, Connacht wasn't great either.

Ulster did well to be fair, but its by far the most competitive provincial championship.

I can understand and empatise with the small crowds though, i would be a fanatic and go on Sunday just to watch the youngsters who might be sprung of the bench, havce a bit of craic with pals from Kildare, if i was a casual and had to pay 35 euro to watch a forgone conclusion id have a decision to make.

I wouldn't be a huge fan of the Leinster council and how they organise games either, their pricing structure etc. I think if this was a Sat night under the lights at Croker it would be more enticing.

That said i still wouldn't be surprised if the crowd on Sun was 25 -30k, i think our game with Longford last year was about 34k. Which could be very healthy for a provincial semi comparatively with anywhere else and probably the of the provinces.

For all the tales of woe it will probably be one of the biggest crowd of the year so far.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/06/2019 14:33:12    2191463

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The only shouting down I can see in the last numbers of posts isn't coming from Dublin fans.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 14:38:52    2191467

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Why are other provincial attendances dropping?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 14:46:22    2191469

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Replying To SallinsMan:  "It's truly amazing to see the selective ignorance of many Dublin supporters and the GAA hierarchy.

Much like we all laugh at Donald Trumps delusions and guiltless lies, everyone without a blue tinted view or financial skin in the game can see what is going on here. They might scorn at Ewan McKenna but those who believe Dublin's dominance is a cyclical thing that came about purely because of good planning and good coaching are simply delusional themselves.

Grants and financial supports
Population
Home / Away / Neutral pitch advantage
Geography

All these have impacted gaelic football much much more than any coaching regime or structural planning could ever dream of doing.

To the dubs out there that are willing to at least listen to the other point of view, well done on your success, the fans nor the players are to blame for it but at least spare us all the hypocrisy of thinking that all of this is natural and fair."
To be fair to Dublin, what are rural county boards doing about it? Donegal had a fair motion for Croke Park not to be used as a home venue during the Super 8s. Rural county boards abandoned their rural brethren in search of financial crumbs from the urban table.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 07/06/2019 14:55:51    2191470

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Im not sure its particularly a Leinster problem, the Munster semi finals were very poorly attended and Cork Footballers playing in Pairc Ui Rinn with a 100 mill + stadium lying idle, was really sad to see. 4-5k at the other Semi. May o and Roscommon was great crowd, but i think Galway and Sligo was poor, you can see the common theme.

Games broadly are lacking in competition, drama and as such are lacking in draw. Frankly we are limping toward a two tier championship and the tractor beam will be money or rather it being lost.

The league and rising attendances have shown us what is possible with evenly matched competitive games, the market is there, the spectivcle is the problem. the provincials now are just a poor relation, they are process of people hanging around through loyalty and waiting for the quality opposition to play each other, lets call it what it is.

Bar Mayo and Roscommon, Connacht wasn't great either.

Ulster did well to be fair, but its by far the most competitive provincial championship.

I can understand and empatise with the small crowds though, i would be a fanatic and go on Sunday just to watch the youngsters who might be sprung of the bench, havce a bit of craic with pals from Kildare, if i was a casual and had to pay 35 euro to watch a forgone conclusion id have a decision to make.

I wouldn't be a huge fan of the Leinster council and how they organise games either, their pricing structure etc. I think if this was a Sat night under the lights at Croker it would be more enticing.

That said i still wouldn't be surprised if the crowd on Sun was 25 -30k, i think our game with Longford last year was about 34k. Which could be very healthy for a provincial semi comparatively with anywhere else and probably the of the provinces.

For all the tales of woe it will probably be one of the biggest crowd of the year so far."
I hope that you're right TheUsername.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2991 - 07/06/2019 15:25:30    2191478

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Im not sure its particularly a Leinster problem, the Munster semi finals were very poorly attended and Cork Footballers playing in Pairc Ui Rinn with a 100 mill + stadium lying idle, was really sad to see. 4-5k at the other Semi. May o and Roscommon was great crowd, but i think Galway and Sligo was poor, you can see the common theme.

Games broadly are lacking in competition, drama and as such are lacking in draw. Frankly we are limping toward a two tier championship and the tractor beam will be money or rather it being lost.

The league and rising attendances have shown us what is possible with evenly matched competitive games, the market is there, the spectivcle is the problem. the provincials now are just a poor relation, they are process of people hanging around through loyalty and waiting for the quality opposition to play each other, lets call it what it is.

Bar Mayo and Roscommon, Connacht wasn't great either.

Ulster did well to be fair, but its by far the most competitive provincial championship.

I can understand and empatise with the small crowds though, i would be a fanatic and go on Sunday just to watch the youngsters who might be sprung of the bench, havce a bit of craic with pals from Kildare, if i was a casual and had to pay 35 euro to watch a forgone conclusion id have a decision to make.

I wouldn't be a huge fan of the Leinster council and how they organise games either, their pricing structure etc. I think if this was a Sat night under the lights at Croker it would be more enticing.

That said i still wouldn't be surprised if the crowd on Sun was 25 -30k, i think our game with Longford last year was about 34k. Which could be very healthy for a provincial semi comparatively with anywhere else and probably the of the provinces.

For all the tales of woe it will probably be one of the biggest crowd of the year so far."
There's a massive sense of apathy in Leinster compared to Connacht and Ulster.

Munster is just as much of a cake walk for Kerry as Leinster is for Dublin but nothing seems to be made of it. Newbridge would have sufficed for a Munster football semi-final double header the way it ended up but nobody seems worried about that at all.

The issue with this sort of attendance in Leinster is the fact that 30,000 on Sunday would represent a 25% drop from last years semi-finals which featured Carlow and Longford instead of ourselves and Meath, and a 10% decrease from a standalone Dublin - Westmeath game the year before.

Hardcore fans will be there, like they will for any game. There'll be a small number who'll refuse to go in protest and I can see where they're coming from, but it's hard to see anyway the Leinster Council can address this trend without something drastic changing.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 07/06/2019 15:26:17    2191479

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Replying To legendzxix:  "To be fair to Dublin, what are rural county boards doing about it? Donegal had a fair motion for Croke Park not to be used as a home venue during the Super 8s. Rural county boards abandoned their rural brethren in search of financial crumbs from the urban table."
They're part of the problem. Other county boards seem to have no fight or ambition left in them. The wider national press seem to be only happy to go along with the gravy train.

A few years ago Kildare GAA secretary, Kathleen O'Neill, had the audacity to suggest that the financial doping that the GAA was administrating to Dublin was counterproductive for the greater good of our games.

She was vilified in the media and received no support from anyone in GAA circles.

County boards swing between trying to be the good servant that doesn't defy it's master but will kill it's competition as soon as crumbs hit the floor.

Look at #NewbridgeOrNowwhere. Look at Donegal CB. They received hardly any support from other county boards.

Those that don't like what I'm saying will present it as sour grapes but at some stage the fine wine will run out, the public will have had enough and the GAA will have a shell of a sport left.

None of this is the Dublin teams fault, they are only taking advantage and who wouldn't. This is a problem that needs to be addressed from the top and addressed quickly.

SallinsMan (Kildare) - Posts: 77 - 07/06/2019 15:33:04    2191483

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The answer to
"Why are the attendances Inf other provincial championships dropping" = a red down thumb

There's a very narrow skewed perspective being shouted at Dubs fans here by supporters of rival counties, you put forward other factors which are no doubt a large contributing factor and it's described as "deflection"

I'd highly question the input and motives behind that, and there's little room for debate while there's so much else being ignored.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 15:47:30    2191491

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Of course there will be

But unfortunately Provisional Championships almost across the board are suffering badly. Numbers are down practically across the board

But this is ignored by some.

For me the back door has greatly impacted their importance and devalued the competitions4

Do or Die

versus

Ahhh sure it'll be grand going through the back door."
A dub giving out about the back door is like Marie Antoinette offering the poor some cake...

It's pretty simple to understand if you remove yourself from the Dublin bubble. There are 2 major factors effecting attendances -

A player drain - Simply put the quality of players has dropped in recent years. There is far too many of our most talented footballers not on their respective county panels because the incentive just isn't there. The commitment needed now is simply not in line with the potential rewards.

Some may say that this was always an issue but the more professional the preparation gets (and Dublin have lead the way in this regard) the more unlikely it is that smaller or weaker counties can to compete. There has never been a smaller number of counties capable of competing with the big boys.

There are also many more options and distractions for 18 to 24 year old's in today's Ireland. The depopulation of much of Ireland also plays it's part.

If the quality of the games isn't there, neither will the fans...simple.

Public Apathy - Again, simply put, fans do not support corrupt competitions or forgone conclusions. Especially when it comes to putting hands in pockets and paying for the privilege to see it all play out!

Take for instance a family of 4 (2 adults and 2 kids of 12 and 10) going to the match in Dublin from Newbridge this weekend. It will cost €170 just for public transport and match tickets. And for what? To see a Dublin team with all the advantages hammer a Kildare team?

The back door for us mere mortal counties who have had to use it is the only way to offer a county like Kildare / Meath / Laois a chance to make any success or progress from this summer.

SallinsMan (Kildare) - Posts: 77 - 07/06/2019 15:52:35    2191493

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Replying To SallinsMan:  "They're part of the problem. Other county boards seem to have no fight or ambition left in them. The wider national press seem to be only happy to go along with the gravy train.

A few years ago Kildare GAA secretary, Kathleen O'Neill, had the audacity to suggest that the financial doping that the GAA was administrating to Dublin was counterproductive for the greater good of our games.

She was vilified in the media and received no support from anyone in GAA circles.

County boards swing between trying to be the good servant that doesn't defy it's master but will kill it's competition as soon as crumbs hit the floor.

Look at #NewbridgeOrNowwhere. Look at Donegal CB. They received hardly any support from other county boards.

Those that don't like what I'm saying will present it as sour grapes but at some stage the fine wine will run out, the public will have had enough and the GAA will have a shell of a sport left.

None of this is the Dublin teams fault, they are only taking advantage and who wouldn't. This is a problem that needs to be addressed from the top and addressed quickly."
Kildare clubs got together to sack K McG

Do you think that was a good idea considering what happened to Kildare after that?

Do you think that set back Kildare?

How come you lost against Wicklow and Carlow this decade?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 07/06/2019 16:17:10    2191496

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And according to the Leinster Chairman it's because of 'Kildare's demise' that its going be empty !! We've never been successful to have a demise ! Reached last years Super 8s beating an All-Ireland Finialist on route, then pushing Galway, Monaghan in the knockout stage was hardly a shocking season last year.. Leinster council have no interest in any county apart from Dublin.. But they won't blame themselves anyway, no problem few years ago to send us and Meath down to Tullamore for a semi-final so Dublin could have Croker to themselves for a double-header..

county-minor (Kildare) - Posts: 8 - 07/06/2019 16:59:16    2191501

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Kildare clubs got together to sack K McG

Do you think that was a good idea considering what happened to Kildare after that?

Do you think that set back Kildare?

How come you lost against Wicklow and Carlow this decade?"
It was actually in Kieran McGeeney's first season in charge that we lost to Wicklow in 2008.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2991 - 07/06/2019 17:01:38    2191502

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Replying To if_in_doubt:  "There's a massive sense of apathy in Leinster compared to Connacht and Ulster.

Munster is just as much of a cake walk for Kerry as Leinster is for Dublin but nothing seems to be made of it. Newbridge would have sufficed for a Munster football semi-final double header the way it ended up but nobody seems worried about that at all.

The issue with this sort of attendance in Leinster is the fact that 30,000 on Sunday would represent a 25% drop from last years semi-finals which featured Carlow and Longford instead of ourselves and Meath, and a 10% decrease from a standalone Dublin - Westmeath game the year before.

Hardcore fans will be there, like they will for any game. There'll be a small number who'll refuse to go in protest and I can see where they're coming from, but it's hard to see anyway the Leinster Council can address this trend without something drastic changing."
I think we sometimes look back on the Leinster Championship with a bit of a golden eye thinking its always been really competitive when that hasnt been the case at all.

In all honesty winning a Leinster Champinonship for Kildare, Laois or Westmeath has been an exceptional year, if Dublin dont win a Leinster title its been an awful year. Dublin have been the strongest county in Leinster since its inception. Meath are second of course.

Kildare only have 13 leinster titles.
Meath 21.

The dominance just didnt start in 2011.

Both have far less then Dublin in fact less then Dublin combined historically.

The reality unfortunately is that no team bar Meath, in Leinster has competed at the top table of GAA to be a consistent threat historically. There has been no super powers who have gone away.

Add that history to this being the best Dublin of all time and in with a fair shout of being the greatest football team of all time and its not hard to work out the logical outcome. In actual reality if all counties in Leinster were playing in a different province you wouldn't be putting hard money down on them to be winning provincial titles, given their historic and current status.

I symaptise, with a low attendance and lack of interest and i understand it. i can understand counties not want to be witnessing a hammering and i can sypathise with Dubs who dont want to watch a lower standard of football and team and entertainment then they are likely to see in the latter part of the championship.

Simply put there is very little to entice a market either for Kildare supporters or Dublin ones. Its very simple in my opinion, if you are selling entertainment, excitement and competitiveness, then customers want to be entertained, excited and competition. Bar watching a great team play some good stuff, we wont see that on Sunday.



The provincials for me are just a waiting around game, like the O Byrne Cup, waiting for the league start.

Hopefully Kildare can prove me wrong on Sunday and to be fair to them they were excellent in the Leinster final a few years ago, but even then it was 9 point victory. I was at that game and there was about 55k there, i was at the Kildare and Armagh game a week later and if there was 4k at the game id be surprised, Kildare can bring a great crowd when there is hope, when there is none the support seems to evaporate, im not sure that has much to do with Dublin. If these wrongly pitched games in terms of standard continue to be played the more they happen the more meaningless they become and no good for anyone. Ill get no excitement if we put up a double digit score on Sun, ill just be checking out how young lads do and having a few pints.

But i do think making arguments about dominance, being new thing is just not dealing correctly with history and reality.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/06/2019 17:03:47    2191503

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The Donegal motion to stop Croke Park being used as a home venue in the Super 8 was labelled as mean spirited by Dublin GAA. Donegal responded saying they do not expect two home games in Ballybofey and where there is unfairness, congress should act. Rural county boards want the crumbs from the urban table. People are voting with their feet.

The Super 8s was a limp start in Croke Park last year. Provincial grounds would have brought an atmosphere and energy. Kerry v Galway in Limerick. Donegal v Dublin in Clones. Fairness for everyone?

Dublin's league games should not be in Croke Park. Rural county boards won't vote against the urban crumbs however.

What would it cost to invest in Parnell Park to host 30000? Other county boards have taken on costs like that.

When the quarter-finals first came in in 2001, Thurles was a neutral venue for Kerry v Dublin. Kerry GAA suggested toss of a coin for home advantage, Dublin GAA didn't want it!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 07/06/2019 17:15:00    2191506

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