National Forum

Disgraceful Waterford

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Munster is great and has historically been great , it's been very one sided games this year but it's still set up for a great finish Tipp v limerick is going to be epic. Limerick v Clare huge game Cork v Clare massive aswell. It hasn't caught fire yet but it will.


As talented as these players are how much is sport about what's going on in the head? Like Tipp with more or less the same players were brutal last year now look at them , Waterford only two years ago were in an All Ireland final with the same players now look at them.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 03/06/2019 10:13:31    2190093

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Back o the topic the main problem I see in Waterford is the attitude of the players. The Sunday Game pointed out how lazy Austin Gleeson was yesterday. He has played that way all year. I don't know if you blame management or the player for this, but i can recall Mullane busting his rear end in the 08 All Ireland Final and Waterford were getting hammered. He never gave up. I think this team is void of senior leadership and again I can't tell if that comes from the players or management. I do believe players are responsible for themselves but maybe the management should have sat him down for a match or two earlier in the season.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 03/06/2019 12:03:32    2190129

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Wexford posters, among others, have been telling us all the Spring that the League means nothing"
It didnt this year Oldtourman as we are still probably a bit off winning it and noone was going to be relegated. Was just pointing out to the other poster who was running Wexford and Dublin down that they have been 2 of very few counties that have beaten Tipp this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11933 - 03/06/2019 12:07:26    2190131

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Lots of evidence. As bad as Waterford are they were in a league final a months ago and were in the all Ireland final 2 years ago. Dublin and Wexford haven't been in the All Ireland final in decades.
Lets not talk about the under 21 All Ireland waterford won at a canter.(Cant talk about the under 21 championship when Leinster teams are around) They dont count lads....no barometer of hurling in a county...."
U21 championships count for alot. I watch them every year. Usually good exciting hurling too. And midweek evenings suit me better too. Waterford have brilliant hurlers. Before the start of the league I thought Limerick and Galway were my favourites for Liam and that Waterford and Clare would be the 2 next best bets. You can see this in a post i put up at the time. Sheedy has galvanised Tipp but the biggest championship shock for me still is how poor Waterford have been. They have great players.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11933 - 03/06/2019 12:12:40    2190135

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Who actually thought of that plan re Kerry. Was it imposed by Central Council or Munster Council? Yes I think they should be playing in their own province. They even won a match in Munster within the last thirty years - V Waterford in 93."
And longterm it would surely be good for Kerry hurling? Maybe increase the playing numbers down there? And as a knockon Munster and Nationaly for the game of hurling as a whole?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11933 - 03/06/2019 12:16:56    2190136

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Who actually thought of that plan re Kerry. Was it imposed by Central Council or Munster Council? Yes I think they should be playing in their own province. They even won a match in Munster within the last thirty years - V Waterford in 93."
And longterm it would surely be good for Kerry hurling? Maybe increase the playing numbers down there? And as a knockon Munster and Nationaly for the game of hurling as a whole?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11933 - 03/06/2019 12:18:46    2190138

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Last yrs munster championship was incredible great games etc this yrs has been poor so far but hopefully the next few games will be good.
Re Waterford if it's not in the stomach it doesn't matter how good any individual is a case in point is Gleeson marvellous player but something not right there

someday (Limerick) - Posts: 1104 - 03/06/2019 12:48:07    2190150

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "Munster is great and has historically been great , it's been very one sided games this year but it's still set up for a great finish Tipp v limerick is going to be epic. Limerick v Clare huge game Cork v Clare massive aswell. It hasn't caught fire yet but it will.


As talented as these players are how much is sport about what's going on in the head? Like Tipp with more or less the same players were brutal last year now look at them , Waterford only two years ago were in an All Ireland final with the same players now look at them."
There have been great games in Munster down the years but they tend to get hyped up beyond belief in the media and by Munster hurling fanboys while the four and one sided games are consigned to memory.
Just 3 years ago the Munster final was Tipp 5-19 Waterford 0-16 for example.
In 2011 it was Tipp 7-19 Wat. 0-19
In 1993 Tipp 3-27 Clare 2-12.
I can think of many more.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 03/06/2019 15:53:26    2190216

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Replying To gatha:  "Back o the topic the main problem I see in Waterford is the attitude of the players. The Sunday Game pointed out how lazy Austin Gleeson was yesterday. He has played that way all year. I don't know if you blame management or the player for this, but i can recall Mullane busting his rear end in the 08 All Ireland Final and Waterford were getting hammered. He never gave up. I think this team is void of senior leadership and again I can't tell if that comes from the players or management. I do believe players are responsible for themselves but maybe the management should have sat him down for a match or two earlier in the season."
Correct. Gleeson's attitude was terrible yesterday and poor enough in the Tipp game too.
Great players don't disappear the way he did.
Good point about Mullane, fought to the bitter end anytime he took the field.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 03/06/2019 15:57:22    2190219

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Surely there is something wrong in the Waterford camp, is it the management? the "style" of hurling they expected to play, what is it? Because great players do not become average in the space of a year something fundamental is wrong and it shows.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 03/06/2019 16:42:39    2190231

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Replying To Barnowl94:  "There have been great games in Munster down the years but they tend to get hyped up beyond belief in the media and by Munster hurling fanboys while the four and one sided games are consigned to memory.
Just 3 years ago the Munster final was Tipp 5-19 Waterford 0-16 for example.
In 2011 it was Tipp 7-19 Wat. 0-19
In 1993 Tipp 3-27 Clare 2-12.
I can think of many more."
Dour and one sided .

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 03/06/2019 17:22:59    2190250

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Replying To arock:  "Surely there is something wrong in the Waterford camp, is it the management? the "style" of hurling they expected to play, what is it? Because great players do not become average in the space of a year something fundamental is wrong and it shows."
Maybe lack of management, Waterford looked absolutely rudderless. No heart or passion that youd normally associate with Waterford hurling. In the last 25 years all the main hurling counties have won Liam mc carthy apart from Waterford. Looks like their going nowhere under this regime.
Pityful stuff.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1911 - 03/06/2019 18:17:53    2190266

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Replying To Barnowl94:  "Dour and one sided ."
...Christ get over yourself and the chip on your shoulder....ye had a free run to an all Ireland semi final for most years and could do damn all with it on most occasion.......now you are on talking nonsense about Munster championship.....there have always been poor games in Munster, 1982 and 1983 finals are real examples but then 1984 was a pure classic that's the way of it I don't hear anyone on this forum from Tipp, Cork etc saying the Munster championship is always brilliant but 7 out of ten times it is......some of the chip on the shoulder stuff on here from Galway and Wexford folk in particular is getting boring......

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 03/06/2019 18:35:41    2190270

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Look Waterford were disgraceful yesterday. no excuses. As someone said most of this team were in the All-Ireland final in 2017. Multiple all-stars on board. Saying the same about Tipp this time last year. I have no doubt totally mis -managed.
Having lived in Leinster for 15 years and not anti Leinster but there are some realities. After the six qualified teams if the rest played off the two beaten teams from Munster would come out on top. Even woeful Waterford who are 20 points a better team than Carlow and proved it already this year. So Waterford 20 points better than Carlow and Limerick 20 points better that Waterford shows the disparity. Neither am I picking on Carlow whom I am delighted for their improvement. Wexford would be the only challenge with Dublin like Carlow improving. If Galway were in their own province where they belong Leinster would be a joke. When they were in Munster all Waterford need to do is throw the jersey out on there pitch. The status co is not working to close the gap between the elites and the improvers.
Waterford are way behind the other Munster teams and the advancement the last few years is after they got away from Munster. That escape hatch is gone. The most hurtful thing is the quiting. A team may be way better than you but you must have some pride to keep the score below double digits.
Enjoy the summer and follow your teams to the end. Hopefully we can erase this memory but not holding my breath. Certainly not under this manager.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2662 - 03/06/2019 18:42:55    2190273

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I was at the match yesterday. 10 mins in I really thought we had a game on our hands.
Waterford were playing reasonably well, worked the ball into good scoring positions and took 4 well worked points.
Fans around me were desperate to cheer them on but when our goal went in, It was like a switch flicked, you could feel the energy drain out of the crowd.
This had to affect the waterford team. There is a brittleness to them that's terrible to see.
I had a good chat with a couple of home supporters and they found it utterly traumatic to watch, but it's almost like they expected it. To be humiliated at home.

The support seemed to accept the disgrace on the pitch as a given.
Sad to see really, I've very fond memories of Mullane, Browne McGrath etc giving everything on the pitch. That's absent from the current waterford set up and how they get it will take a lot of soul searching.

Thing is 10 years ago we shipped 24 pts against Tipp in an AI semi final. Utterly devastating day for Limerick hurling.

It was the catalyst to begin serious ground work at under age level, took years but worked out well thank God last August.
Waterford have to do a serious amount of work but hopefully this season is the kick up the arse they need.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1064 - 03/06/2019 18:59:53    2190278

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My knowledge of the inner workings of Waterford GAA is minimal but it seems that something is wrong in the county board.

Between the state Walsh park was let get into and the fortunes of both senior teams it looks to me like any success Waterford do have is in spite of the local administration.

Takes alot of long term work and money as we know in Limerick but for a county that came so close 2 years ago its surely not impossible

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 03/06/2019 20:01:17    2190299

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Replying To bloodyban:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Munster Senior Hurling Championship
Quarter-finals

28 May 1961Quarter-final Galway 2-13 - 0-07 Clare MacDonagh Park

It takes a Leinster man to put you right on the history of the Munster Championship. You're out of your depth."
Hands up...you got me there. I should have checked my alternative facts. I wasnt born until 1988"
I'm very surprised to read that. Judging by your posts I would have thought it was closer to 2008!!!

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 944 - 03/06/2019 20:11:50    2190306

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Replying To skillet:  "I was at the match yesterday. 10 mins in I really thought we had a game on our hands.
Waterford were playing reasonably well, worked the ball into good scoring positions and took 4 well worked points.
Fans around me were desperate to cheer them on but when our goal went in, It was like a switch flicked, you could feel the energy drain out of the crowd.
This had to affect the waterford team. There is a brittleness to them that's terrible to see.
I had a good chat with a couple of home supporters and they found it utterly traumatic to watch, but it's almost like they expected it. To be humiliated at home.

The support seemed to accept the disgrace on the pitch as a given.
Sad to see really, I've very fond memories of Mullane, Browne McGrath etc giving everything on the pitch. That's absent from the current waterford set up and how they get it will take a lot of soul searching.

Thing is 10 years ago we shipped 24 pts against Tipp in an AI semi final. Utterly devastating day for Limerick hurling.

It was the catalyst to begin serious ground work at under age level, took years but worked out well thank God last August.
Waterford have to do a serious amount of work but hopefully this season is the kick up the arse they need."
The thing is I dont think Waterford need a grassroots up rebuilding job. They have won Munster and All Irelands underage in the recent past and have as talented a squad of hurlers as any other top county. The problem last year was too many injuries. From the outside looking at the performances this year you would have to look to the management. The players havent become bad overnight and it is the management's job to keep them motivated and get the best out of them.....

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11933 - 03/06/2019 20:32:48    2190311

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Replying To Viking66:  "U21 championships count for alot. I watch them every year. Usually good exciting hurling too. And midweek evenings suit me better too. Waterford have brilliant hurlers. Before the start of the league I thought Limerick and Galway were my favourites for Liam and that Waterford and Clare would be the 2 next best bets. You can see this in a post i put up at the time. Sheedy has galvanised Tipp but the biggest championship shock for me still is how poor Waterford have been. They have great players."
Very much agree with this. Not sure about us as joint favs at campaign start given mgt have kept same o same o to a large degree. But the biggest disappointment has being the Deise. Great hurling people with wonderful hurlers currently. Performance the polar opposite.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 03/06/2019 20:41:27    2190315

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Replying To Viking66:  "The thing is I dont think Waterford need a grassroots up rebuilding job. They have won Munster and All Irelands underage in the recent past and have as talented a squad of hurlers as any other top county. The problem last year was too many injuries. From the outside looking at the performances this year you would have to look to the management. The players havent become bad overnight and it is the management's job to keep them motivated and get the best out of them....."
No, they probably don't. I agree. they do need a serious look at themselves though.
Maybe I wandered off topic in my other post, but it was the 'dread', for want of a better word in the crowd that struck me.

It was palpable how little faith their own people had in them. That's the thing, is it coaching management, psychology etc, self belief?

The context I was coming from was we contested an AI in 2007,had a decent team with u21 winners in it that went into free fall after, culminating in the terrible hammering in 09.. So we went from All ireland finalists to getting whipped in 2years.
Much like waterford now...

Maybe it's a false comparison, I hope so, they've some fine hurlers but something seriously out of sync at the core of their setup.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1064 - 03/06/2019 21:36:50    2190335

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