National Forum

Paul Mannion's Red Card Against Louth

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Probably yellow, but tough call in real time.

Did I read that Jim Gavin said he played the ball, or something similar?

I thought Whelans freeze frame to 'prove' it was shoulder to shoulder was bizarre.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 29/05/2019 15:40:33    2188872

Link

Replying To bobkarlgees:  "I taught is was red card clumsy challenge, not intentional or anything like that , but slightly high.

Anyone think Micheal Daragh Mc Cauley was in the square for his goal looked very much like it to me. Makes no difference what so ever to the result. But Roan Ryan for Meath got pinged for been in the square in the same goal a hour previous when Meath where wining well also. Is there double standards out there ?"
More like different refs. However the same ref that decided Mannions challenge was a red decided Niall Morgans challenge on Paddy Andrews in which his jaw was broken, merely warranted a yellow so go figure.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 29/05/2019 15:42:21    2188874

Link

Replying To TrueBlue35:  "I don't know what clip you're watching if you're saying he raised his elbow. I think his elbow is at a perfectly acceptable position braced for contact/impact. I think in this instance the main reason Mannion saw red is because he is physical specimen, 6"2 of pure muscle. If he makes the same challenge on a player of similar stature they both stay on their feet and nothing is made of it. I think the fact it was on a much smaller player didn't stand in his favour as the Louth fella crumbled when there was contact. There was no raised elbow, I agree it wasn't shoulder to shoulder in the traditional sense of both players coming side on but I don't think for a second he went in to do the opposing player. In real time I actually thought the ref was slightly harsh but I didn't have any major complaints about the red. It's a seriously tough job they do when you throw in crowd influence etc on top of having to make calls in split seconds. If he appeals he'll get off I'm sure but if not then it will give fellas like Paddy Small hopefully the chance to get a few valuable run outs in Croke Park."
If you watch the clip again, you will see after the impact that his elbow is rising which doesnt look good with a man on the floor. Im not saying there was contact with the elbow for one second, it just that it gives the ref a decision to make.

In my view it is not a red, it a yellow and a warning to watch himself but that is not know it is being ref'd this year so players will need to adapt. I have a feeling over the next few weeks that this will calm down and later in the season the same hit will be yellow.

juicy (Meath) - Posts: 399 - 29/05/2019 15:59:34    2188881

Link

I think it was a red same as one on Paddy Andrews. After he hits the Louth player if lifts his elbow up for me.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 29/05/2019 16:07:35    2188884

Link

Replying To bobkarlgees:  "I taught is was red card clumsy challenge, not intentional or anything like that , but slightly high.

Anyone think Micheal Daragh Mc Cauley was in the square for his goal looked very much like it to me. Makes no difference what so ever to the result. But Roan Ryan for Meath got pinged for been in the square in the same goal a hour previous when Meath where wining well also. Is there double standards out there ?"
Yeah sure double standards at work, slow it down frame by frame it will confirm societies worse fears!!

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 29/05/2019 16:11:11    2188886

Link

Replying To williesboy:  "
Replying To gaelicgab:  "If it was an All Ireland semi final it would be big news but was it a fair 'shoulder to shoulder' challenge or a deserved red card? It was done at speed and on second look I think Mannion shouldnt have been sent off.

link"
It's a yellow and it wasn't shoulder to shoulder, he caused him a little on the chest. No need to set up a forum for it. Typical dub"
Typical anti dub comment , well done you should be proud of yourself

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 29/05/2019 16:26:54    2188895

Link

Replying To doratheexplorer:  "I think it was a red same as one on Paddy Andrews. After he hits the Louth player if lifts his elbow up for me."
Same ref. Different interpretations of both incidents. One lad got a broken jaw one lad got back up.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 29/05/2019 16:34:35    2188897

Link

Replying To m_the_d:  "Probably yellow, but tough call in real time.

Did I read that Jim Gavin said he played the ball, or something similar?

I thought Whelans freeze frame to 'prove' it was shoulder to shoulder was bizarre."
Why was it bizarre?


They did the exact same thing (Sunday game) with Mooney's shoulder the week before in the Armagh v Down game.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 29/05/2019 16:40:05    2188899

Link

2 quick questions on the rules for football, if a player gets a black card can a sub come on in his place I thought I heard Ger Canning say last weekend that a team has to finish the game with 14 men after a black card is shown yet I though Mayo put on a player after Andy Moran got black carded
Question 2 how many subs are a team allowed to make apart from blood subs, I thought that Roscommon put on 6 subs, only Cox no 14 was the only forward that finished the game from the start, that's 5 forwards being subbed and 1 of the midfielders, maybe the rules were changed or tweaked I don't know, just wondering

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 29/05/2019 17:40:54    2188920

Link

You are allowed to make 6 Subs - it was originally 5 but changed to 6 following the introduction of the black card.

If a player gets a black card he can be replaced as long as you have not used all of your 6 subs, If you use all 6 subs and a player is black carded you are down to 14 exactly what happened Roscommon on Saturday

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 29/05/2019 18:23:57    2188934

Link

Replying To Jackeen:  "Same ref. Different interpretations of both incidents. One lad got a broken jaw one lad got back up."
An outcome of a tackle should not decide card colour.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 31/05/2019 18:26:34    2189465

Link

Replying To doratheexplorer:  "An outcome of a tackle should not decide card colour."
The important part of this post was it was the same ref but he interpreted the tackle differently in both cases. Maybe my post was misleading. Apologies.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 31/05/2019 18:44:17    2189468

Link

Replying To doratheexplorer:  "An outcome of a tackle should not decide card colour."
Never a red card. Watch the Sunday Game replay. Frame by frame, it is clearly shoulder to shoulder.

fingalman (Dublin) - Posts: 233 - 31/05/2019 18:53:46    2189472

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "I wouldn't be over critical of the ref to be honest as in real time it looked quite dangerous.

Still on the fence whether or not it was red or yellow, borderline between the 2 for me. Imo he knew what he was doing and the slight raise of the elbow would make me err on the side of the red to be honest.

Very tight call and near impossible for the ref to call."
not having a go at ya, but if it wasnt a yellow or red what new colored card would you like to be introduced to the game as if theres not enough confusion about cards already? in real time it is a red all day long but as a ref you have a couple of seconds to decide, and at the end of the day which ever card you give the ref will be wrong

mrme (USA) - Posts: 22 - 31/05/2019 19:06:26    2189476

Link

Replying To fingalman:  "Never a red card. Watch the Sunday Game replay. Frame by frame, it is clearly shoulder to shoulder."
Ref can't watch it frame by frame though, makes the call based on what he sees in realtime even if it means making a mistake sometimes.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7369 - 31/05/2019 20:17:18    2189488

Link

Anyone at the game on that side of the pitch would know that the ref did not see the incident at all and only stopped play on communication from the linesman, in real time the point of contact ,head, chest or shoulder, difficult to decide, video evidence shows no contact with the Louth player's head, yellow card would have been the right decision, and with no prejudice to the officials the red card should be rescinded.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 685 - 31/05/2019 21:37:42    2189511

Link

Replying To mrme:  "not having a go at ya, but if it wasnt a yellow or red what new colored card would you like to be introduced to the game as if theres not enough confusion about cards already? in real time it is a red all day long but as a ref you have a couple of seconds to decide, and at the end of the day which ever card you give the ref will be wrong"
What I meant was that in the split second the ref has to make the call its easy to see how either decision is made.

No new colour card, just everyone behaving like adults and realise that a ref giving a yellow in that instance, or a red in that instance, are equally valid decisions imo.

These split second decisions aren't necessarily black and white.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 31/05/2019 21:44:06    2189513

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "What I meant was that in the split second the ref has to make the call its easy to see how either decision is made.

No new colour card, just everyone behaving like adults and realise that a ref giving a yellow in that instance, or a red in that instance, are equally valid decisions imo.

These split second decisions aren't necessarily black and white."
Firstly you can only go by what the incident looked like in real time . It looked like a heavy challenge and the elbow does look as if it followed through . Refs don't have frame by frame slow mo .
Secondly I feel legitimate shoulder tackles have now almost been unofficially taken out of football as a result of how the game is being refereed . Can you imagine how Paraic Maher's shoulder on Joe Canning in the 2016 All Ireland semi final would have been dealt with in football ? Look back too on Gearoid McInerney's shoulder on Maher in the 20-7 semi final . What would have happened in football ?
I think Paul Mannion's red card will be rescinded on appeal .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/06/2019 10:06:37    2189575

Link

Replying To fingalman:  "Never a red card. Watch the Sunday Game replay. Frame by frame, it is clearly shoulder to shoulder."
It's clearly not. It's a frontal charge, you can't shoulder from the front into the top of a man's chest, it needs to be side by side, standing up with feet on the ground. How Whelan thought it was a fair shoulder is beyond me

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2407 - 01/06/2019 10:52:16    2189578

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "It's clearly not. It's a frontal charge, you can't shoulder from the front into the top of a man's chest, it needs to be side by side, standing up with feet on the ground. How Whelan thought it was a fair shoulder is beyond me"
Of course you can't. And Mannion didn't. Red card will most probably be deservedly rescinded.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 01/06/2019 12:02:49    2189595

Link