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Munster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Connaught: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Remaining 4 counties of Connaught and Munster, London included, into a group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Leinster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
O'Byrne Cup: Leinster tier 2 - 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Ulster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Dr. McKenna Cup: Ulster tier 2 - 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Remaining 4 counties of Leinster and Ulster into a group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
GAA Calendar:
1. National Football League starting in January. (No pre-season competitions before that.
2. A break for a few weeks of football club championships.
3. The tiered provincial championship outlined here.
4. All-Ireland Championship that is separated from the provincial championships:
- 4 groups of 5 = 20 in tier 1.
- 2 groups of 6 = 12 in tier 2.
The Hurling League has been restructured to allow teams play in a somewhat development mode. The National Football League starting in early January would allow the same.
A tiered provincial championship as outlined guarantees all teams 3 games before the All-Ireland series. The tiered approach should keep them vibrant and competitive.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 19/05/2019 12:07:59
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I don't like it at all.
Games need to be taken out of the early part of the year not more put back in.
If the Provincials are able to be moved earlier they should be the curtain raiser to the season. Played in March and maybe the first week in April. Straight knockout.
All Ireland club championships should be completed in February.
Championship should be a league based competition but every team has the chance of qualifying for championship 1 at the start of the season.
Championship 1 is a 12 team league. Top 4 to semifinals.
Championship 1 is made up of 4 Provincial champions, 6 best ranked teams from previous season's championship 1 and finalists of the previous season's championship 2.
It means in championship 1 only the top 6 teams are guaranteed a spot in the following season's championship 1. 7th -10th will be assigned depending on whether lower tier teams win their provinces. Every place counts.
Championship 2 could either be 1 league of 10 with a 3rd tier of 10 below that.
Alternatively championship 2 could be 20 teams split into 2 groups of 10 with top 4 in each progressing to championship 2 quarterfinals.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 19/05/2019 12:24:21
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There's no need for 2 tiers in Leinster. Outside of Dublin anybody can beat any team on the day.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 19/05/2019 12:32:47
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Replying To legendzxix: "Munster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Connaught: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Remaining 4 counties of Connaught and Munster, London included, into a group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Leinster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
O'Byrne Cup: Leinster tier 2 - 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Ulster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Dr. McKenna Cup: Ulster tier 2 - 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Remaining 4 counties of Leinster and Ulster into a group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
GAA Calendar:
1. National Football League starting in January. (No pre-season competitions before that.
2. A break for a few weeks of football club championships.
3. The tiered provincial championship outlined here.
4. All-Ireland Championship that is separated from the provincial championships:
- 4 groups of 5 = 20 in tier 1.
- 2 groups of 6 = 12 in tier 2.
The Hurling League has been restructured to allow teams play in a somewhat development mode. The National Football League starting in early January would allow the same.
A tiered provincial championship as outlined guarantees all teams 3 games before the All-Ireland series. The tiered approach should keep them vibrant and competitive." I think this is a good idea
suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 19/05/2019 12:49:11
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Replying To Jack_Goff: "There's no need for 2 tiers in Leinster. Outside of Dublin anybody can beat any team on the day." At least have a competitive group and reinvigorate ye're championship.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 19/05/2019 17:14:09
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Replying To suckvalleypaddy: "I think this is a good idea" What problem does it solve.
You're still going to see the top teams not play against each other often enough in the competition. Why tier the Provincial championships. One of the best reasons for keeping them is the chance of the big day out for the lower level teams, a chance of a decent crowd.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 19/05/2019 17:44:55
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Given the 'accidental' success of the Prov SHC - I think the SFC could copy this. I say accidental - because the SHC changes were a knee jerk reaction to the SFC Super 8 and the latter's expected overshadowing of the SHC. So here goes -
Prov SFC - Mostly groups of 5 - Ulster and the Rest.
Uls + London (5,5) and Rest of Ire (5,5,5 & 3v2,2).
ROI (22 teams, mixed groups - as depth in the other 3 Provs is lacking - just put top 2 NFL ranked in Muns, Conn & Lein into the Prov Finals, each Final doubling as a fixture in a different group of 5 as well.
After a 4-match round robin per team - although in the last group, the trio plays the other 4 only and the pairs go head to head - Uls group winners meet in the Uls Final, and 4 ROI group winners playoff, in 3 double chance matches.
The 3 winners to AI KO QFs - 3 losers and 2 best group 2nds enter 10-team AI Rd 2 - other 4 2nds and 6 3rds enter 10-team Rd 1.
Overall, there are 6 groups of 5 (except, the 4th ROI group has 2 more teams) - and the top 3 in each advance to an 18-team AI KO.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2603 - 20/05/2019 01:58:26
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Replying To Whammo86: "What problem does it solve.
You're still going to see the top teams not play against each other often enough in the competition. Why tier the Provincial championships. One of the best reasons for keeping them is the chance of the big day out for the lower level teams, a chance of a decent crowd." My suggestion is no pre-season. Go straight into the league, playing players in a development manner.
Take a few weeks break for club football.
Resume with the tiered provincial championship, all teams guaranteed 3 games.
Then have the All-Ireland Championship after that.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 20/05/2019 18:14:29
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My suggestion is no pre-season. Go straight into the league, playing players in a development manner.
Take a few weeks break for club football.
Resume with the tiered provincial championship, all teams guaranteed 3 games.
Then have the All-Ireland Championship after that.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5675 - 20/05/2019 18:14:29You have to have a pre season.... all sports do. Just GAA decides it has competitions... you dont need to have a cup competition to play or a league within a pre season. Counties should just have as many or as few friendlies as they like and i would go have league inter spaced with the championship and allow proper time for clubs games in between that. it shouldnt be that difficult to do.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 20/05/2019 18:55:16
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Replying To legendzxix: "My suggestion is no pre-season. Go straight into the league, playing players in a development manner.
Take a few weeks break for club football.
Resume with the tiered provincial championship, all teams guaranteed 3 games.
Then have the All-Ireland Championship after that." I like that there's more championship games.
I still think the top teams don't play one another enough in yours. The field is split into 4.
There's going to be few games between the top teams until the quarterfinals.
It's a long old season even with a developmental league.
I think the real key selling point of the new hurling format is how often the top teams play one another. That's where football lags behind and has to be rebalanced.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 20/05/2019 19:10:07
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Replying To Whammo86: "I like that there's more championship games.
I still think the top teams don't play one another enough in yours. The field is split into 4.
There's going to be few games between the top teams until the quarterfinals.
It's a long old season even with a developmental league.
I think the real key selling point of the new hurling format is how often the top teams play one another. That's where football lags behind and has to be rebalanced." League: The current 4 divisions of 8.
Provincial championships: As outlined, championships of 4 team groups.
All-Ireland: Separate competition of 4 groups of 5. 2 groups of 6 in tier 2.
I cannot see football offering a competitive alternative to the Munster Hurling Championship.
What football can offer though is a vibrant group stage of 20 teams and competitive preliminary quarter-finals in such a structure. Teams will get two home games.
Granting home advantage to group runners-up in preliminary quarter-finals and granting home advantage to group winners in the quarter-finals can bring big games nationwide to our provincial grounds.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 20/05/2019 23:42:33
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Replying To legendzxix: "Munster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Connaught: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Remaining 4 counties of Connaught and Munster, London included, into a group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Leinster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
O'Byrne Cup: Leinster tier 2 - 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Ulster: 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into final.
Dr. McKenna Cup: Ulster tier 2 - 1 group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
Remaining 4 counties of Leinster and Ulster into a group of 4. Top 2 after round robin into the final with the winner promoted to their provincial championship of the following year.
GAA Calendar:
1. National Football League starting in January. (No pre-season competitions before that.
2. A break for a few weeks of football club championships.
3. The tiered provincial championship outlined here.
4. All-Ireland Championship that is separated from the provincial championships:
- 4 groups of 5 = 20 in tier 1.
- 2 groups of 6 = 12 in tier 2.
The Hurling League has been restructured to allow teams play in a somewhat development mode. The National Football League starting in early January would allow the same.
A tiered provincial championship as outlined guarantees all teams 3 games before the All-Ireland series. The tiered approach should keep them vibrant and competitive." On the right track there but not enough tiers
Would operate is slightly differently.
Would run the provincials as a seeded competition. With previous years finalists in senior championship to be joined by top 2 from Preliminary competition.
Those not making the top 4 in each provincial championship enter junior champ of 16 (4x4 groups)
Those not making provincial finals enter intermediate championship of 8
Provincial finalists enter super 8
5 teams from super 8, 2 from intermediate, and junior championship winners enter all Ireland q finals
That would give all teams a minimum of 5/6 championship games every summer
Add that to 7 league games and weaker teams can develop properly summer after summer all in the main competition
The above allows for 15 weekends of inter county
Shut down from mid November to mid February and you have 40 weekends in the year of decent weather
If you play first 2 weekends as county, 3rd as club (mandatory player release) and 4th as rest weekend. That would have all Ireland final around mid-end of August.
Club championships starting in April- 1 rd every 4 weeks and county finals mid September and 8 weeks left to run provincial and all Ireland club - seed it as per finish date in inter county all Ireland and it could start earlier as county finals could take place earlier in counties knocked out of all Ireland early
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 21/05/2019 01:32:27
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Replying To legendzxix: "League: The current 4 divisions of 8.
Provincial championships: As outlined, championships of 4 team groups.
All-Ireland: Separate competition of 4 groups of 5. 2 groups of 6 in tier 2.
I cannot see football offering a competitive alternative to the Munster Hurling Championship.
What football can offer though is a vibrant group stage of 20 teams and competitive preliminary quarter-finals in such a structure. Teams will get two home games.
Granting home advantage to group runners-up in preliminary quarter-finals and granting home advantage to group winners in the quarter-finals can bring big games nationwide to our provincial grounds." I think football can get something decent.
Either 1 top tier championship of 12 teams or a top tier of 2 groups of 8 teams.
I'd keep the provincial championships and guarantee their winners a place in the top tier alongside the best performers from the previous season.
There are flaws with the hurling model, caused by the Provincial model.
It's unfair on Kerry, it's very hard for them to qualify for Munster.
Munster is much stronger than Leinster.
If Antrim were to win the Joe McDonagh there'd be only 3 traditional Leinster counties in the Leinster championship.
Uneven groups of 5 aren't ideal with teams having byes in the final round of games.
I think hurling would be better served to have 2 groups of 6 or 1 division of 10.
As I say it's about the quality of match ups not the Provincial system that's creating the excitement.
I think it'd be great to add more games like Galway v Cork, Tipp v Kilkenny, Dublin v Limerick etc each year.
The tournament nature of the GAA championship doesn't make sense to me. Just make it a proper league. Every supporter is crying out for more quality games each year and it makes it easier to schedule club games.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 21/05/2019 18:31:15
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think football can get something decent.
Either 1 top tier championship of 12 teams or a top tier of 2 groups of 8 teams.
I'd keep the provincial championships and guarantee their winners a place in the top tier alongside the best performers from the previous season.
There are flaws with the hurling model, caused by the Provincial model.
It's unfair on Kerry, it's very hard for them to qualify for Munster.
Munster is much stronger than Leinster.
If Antrim were to win the Joe McDonagh there'd be only 3 traditional Leinster counties in the Leinster championship.
Uneven groups of 5 aren't ideal with teams having byes in the final round of games.
I think hurling would be better served to have 2 groups of 6 or 1 division of 10.
As I say it's about the quality of match ups not the Provincial system that's creating the excitement.
I think it'd be great to add more games like Galway v Cork, Tipp v Kilkenny, Dublin v Limerick etc each year.
The tournament nature of the GAA championship doesn't make sense to me. Just make it a proper league. Every supporter is crying out for more quality games each year and it makes it easier to schedule club games." I think 6 is the maxumum number of teams to go for in any group format. 5 is working well in hurling with the 2 home and 2 away games. There is no harm in the 6 team groups either though. If groups are kept the same for 2 years, team can play twice at home one year and three times at home in the following year or vice-versa.
A proper tiered championship should be separate from the provincial championships. There is scope though for tier provincial championships but it is tricky enough to get a fair balance across all provinces.
Byes in the final round of groups of 5 are unideal. I think fairness is that the lowest ranked county from the previous year should be the team with the bye at the final round.
Waterford having lost two games could get back into the Munster Championship with two win and the third place on offer. Again, to keep support interested, I would be reluctant to see anything more than 6 teams in a group.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 21/05/2019 21:28:35
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Replying To legendzxix: "I think 6 is the maxumum number of teams to go for in any group format. 5 is working well in hurling with the 2 home and 2 away games. There is no harm in the 6 team groups either though. If groups are kept the same for 2 years, team can play twice at home one year and three times at home in the following year or vice-versa.
A proper tiered championship should be separate from the provincial championships. There is scope though for tier provincial championships but it is tricky enough to get a fair balance across all provinces.
Byes in the final round of groups of 5 are unideal. I think fairness is that the lowest ranked county from the previous year should be the team with the bye at the final round.
Waterford having lost two games could get back into the Munster Championship with two win and the third place on offer. Again, to keep support interested, I would be reluctant to see anything more than 6 teams in a group." No I think there's ways of keeping things interesting.
In football for instance there could be a top tier of 16. 2 groups of 8.
It'd be made up of 4 Provincial champions, finalists from the Previous season's Championship 2 and the best 10 other teams from Championship 1.
Top 5 from each championship 1 group are guaranteed a spot.
Most season's 6th and 7th from each group will also qualify. If a lower ranked team wins their Provincial championship then the 7th placed teams from the previous season's championship 1 groups playoff for the final spot.
Every place counts.
Similarly in hurling you'd have Munster champion, Leinster champion, the previous season's hurling championship 2 winners plus 9 best teams from the previous season's championship 1.
It'd mean that in most season's, after the Provincial championship, the 6th placed teams in each championship 1 group from the previous season will play off for a spot in championship 1.
This sort of season could be run off quite well.
You'd have a Provincial and All Ireland club championships played in February and March.
Maybe a developmental competition for inter county teams where college players and club players can't play until they are eliminated from those competitions.
In April and Early May play the provincials.
Get a club round in for each code before the All Ireland begins on the June bank holiday.
Play 1 more club game in each code in June and July. Finish the All Ireland group competitions by the end of August, with All Ireland knockout rounds in September.
The culmination of the club season ends the year, preferably by the end of October in most counties.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 21/05/2019 22:06:14
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Replying To Whammo86: "No I think there's ways of keeping things interesting.
In football for instance there could be a top tier of 16. 2 groups of 8.
It'd be made up of 4 Provincial champions, finalists from the Previous season's Championship 2 and the best 10 other teams from Championship 1.
Top 5 from each championship 1 group are guaranteed a spot.
Most season's 6th and 7th from each group will also qualify. If a lower ranked team wins their Provincial championship then the 7th placed teams from the previous season's championship 1 groups playoff for the final spot.
Every place counts.
Similarly in hurling you'd have Munster champion, Leinster champion, the previous season's hurling championship 2 winners plus 9 best teams from the previous season's championship 1.
It'd mean that in most season's, after the Provincial championship, the 6th placed teams in each championship 1 group from the previous season will play off for a spot in championship 1.
This sort of season could be run off quite well.
You'd have a Provincial and All Ireland club championships played in February and March.
Maybe a developmental competition for inter county teams where college players and club players can't play until they are eliminated from those competitions.
In April and Early May play the provincials.
Get a club round in for each code before the All Ireland begins on the June bank holiday.
Play 1 more club game in each code in June and July. Finish the All Ireland group competitions by the end of August, with All Ireland knockout rounds in September.
The culmination of the club season ends the year, preferably by the end of October in most counties." Sorry in my old age it's easy for me to get confused.
I'm just wondering have I got this right regarding the clubs?
Provincial and all Ireland from previous year played in Feb and March.
1 round of club games in May, June and July in the middle of the all Ireland championship.
With the all Ireland intercounty championship knockout rounds starting and finishing in September, the remainder of the club matches for the year to be completed in October.
Apologies if I've got this completely arseways
Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 22/05/2019 00:21:26
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Replying To Ej: "Sorry in my old age it's easy for me to get confused.
I'm just wondering have I got this right regarding the clubs?
Provincial and all Ireland from previous year played in Feb and March.
1 round of club games in May, June and July in the middle of the all Ireland championship.
With the all Ireland intercounty championship knockout rounds starting and finishing in September, the remainder of the club matches for the year to be completed in October.
Apologies if I've got this completely arseways" Yes that's what I'd be saying.
You'd be talking June, July, August to play 7 inter county football group games, 5 inter county hurling group games and their 2 quarterfinals. You'd have 3 club football weekends, 3 club hurling weekends over the course of those 13 weeks.
1st Weekend of Sep Football quarterfinals and hurling semifinals
2nd Weekend of Sep Football semifinals
3rd Sunday of Sep Hurling final
4th Sunday of Sep Football final
Clubs would be playing their 4th round of championship in each code either by mid September or start of October.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 22/05/2019 10:02:45
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Sorry but I've fallen asleep already. The Munster Hurling Championship is straightforward to understand.
The Football Qualifiers have had their day too.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 22/05/2019 14:03:42
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Replying To legendzxix: "Sorry but I've fallen asleep already. The Munster Hurling Championship is straightforward to understand.
The Football Qualifiers have had their day too." What's difficult to understand.
Season starts with Provincial champions qualifying in both codes for their tier 1 competition.
The remaining spots are allocated based on performance in the previous season with tier 2 champions in hurling and tier 2 finalists in football guaranteeing places for themselves in following season's top tier.
Every place counts in both competitions.
Football tier 1
2 groups of 8 top 4 in each to quarterfinals.
Tier 2 same
Hurling tier 1
2 groups of 6 top 3 in each to playoffs (2 quarterfinals, 2 byes to semifinals for group winners)
Tier 2 same
Tier 3 1 group of 6, 1 group of 5 otherwise the same.
Simples.
No messing around with trying to get the right number of teams playing in each province or having structural unfair competitions.
The All Ireland hurling championship whilst still exciting is as structurally unfair as the football championship because of trying to keep the provincial champions at the core of the competition.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 22/05/2019 15:55:23
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The current National Football League is fine. The Munster Hurling Championship is hurling gold.
Enhancements will be built around solid structures. The leagues are there to allow players to be played in a development manner.
I think the options in football are 4 groups of 4, 5 or 6. Qualification can be through the provincial championships and qualifiers or else run the All-Ireland as a separate entity.
I'll post more later. There is an option that the provincials feed into the group stage. Those outside the group stage can enter a tier 2 that ensures the winner a group stage spot in the following year.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 22/05/2019 18:12:15
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