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Personally I'm delighted to read the news this afternoon that my own county are prepared to back the proposal for a second tier competition in the All Ireland football championship. I like the idea of giving the so called weaker counties a realistic chance of winning All Ireland silverware at Croke Park but I don't think it should be confined to just Division 3 and 4 teams. The GAA must come up with something better than that. What about a Super 8s format between all beaten round 1 qualifier teams? Whatever the format is it should be based on the championship.

liatroim (Leitrim) - Posts: 8 - 24/04/2019 15:55:03    2180092

So if a Tier 2 Championship was played in the morning it would include London, Westmeath, Limerick, Offaly, Wicklow, Meath, Derry and Wexford! Interesting but I can't see a second tier football championship garnering much interest among supporters I'm afraid.

gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 878 - 24/04/2019 16:09:55    2180094

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 24/04/2019 16:12:33    2180097

There are ways in which a tiered championship can work possibly.

The method being proposed seems... not great to me.

https://www.hoganstand.com/Leitrim/Article/Index/298203

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 24/04/2019 16:20:43    2180099

I would be in a favour of a two tier championship myself. I love the league. You are playing teams at your own level week in and week out. The championship should be the same.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 24/04/2019 16:27:02    2180102

gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 878 - 24/04/2019 16:28:54    2180103

I think a second Championship would be good. How it is organised will be complicated a bit by the Provincial setup but no reason why a formula to suit all can't be found. I find it a bit funny people complaining about the idea being elitist and giving two fingers to the weaker counties. If your results are good enough you can compete at the higher level. Same way clubs can go up or down through the grades. And a 2nd competition would still have some very very good teams in it and a high standard of football and would be no easy cup to win. Speaking as a Cavan supporter I would only be too delighted at the chance to win a cup like that.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 24/04/2019 16:30:35    2180105

I am in broad agreement that there has to be a restructuring of the GAA season and championships. There should be tiered competitions at the height of the summer season for intercounty players to compete in at their level.

The GAA's 2 proposals for the B championship are both really bad though.

So in the first instance teams exit the main championship after the lose in their province. It's a bit rubbish for a team that gets a Dublin say in their first game in Leinster or say Leitrim get a Galway/Mayo or Antrim get a Donegal/Tyrone.


The second proposal gives teams a run in the qualifiers but then you sort of think what's the point of the second tier competition then. There's a trophy in it I suppose but there's no progression to a higher standard of play gained from winning this competition, they were still in the qualifiers anyway.

You also still have the goddam qualifiers which just need to go if there's to be improvements in the scheduling of club games around intercounty.

Variants of both of the 2 proposals were tried a little over 10 years ago with the Tommy Murphy cup. That competition didn't take off at all. Has much actually changed.

It's actually really irritating that the GAA is even pursuing this type of competition.

What of the CPA and their calls to get everyone around a table and discuss a proper season structure.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 24/04/2019 18:53:12    2180126

I think they should be trying to find ways to narrow the standard gap between top counties and bottom counties. I know that won't be easy to do but having tier one and two where a few counties might rotate between the two doesn't achieve a lot, and might encourage prospective athletes from tier two counties to other sports. I cynically think some GAA top brass won't be unhappy if, in 10 years time, kids from so-called weaker counties are wearing Super 8 county jersies the way some kids wear Premier League jersies of teams they see on TV. Difficult for tier two counties to get decent sponsorship without decent media exposure.

Regardless of my rant it should be up to players and coaches to decide which they prefer and not administrators or supporters.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 24/04/2019 20:40:48    2180140

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 24/04/2019 20:58:09    2180141

Simpler the better. Potential solution is to move the existing league to the summer, this would draw bigger attendance during the good weather and ensure every county has competitive games every other week and the crowds are spread around the country.

Alongside the summer league run a seeded 32 team knockout championship competition. Five games to win it! No replays except maybe the final. This gives everyone a chance of winning the big prize and keeps the romance of the giant killing alive. The losers in the first two rounds could go in to another competition if there is an appetite for it.

The provincials could be played before the summer and become a competition in their own right, but would have no bearing on the championship. The provincial councils would go mental at the suggestion so it will never happen and it's too radical to get past congress but if you want to really capitalise on the popularity of the GAA, give teams and fans more meaningful games and sell the game abroad I think this would be a good system.

The one big flaw in my plan is where does it leave the clubs? There would be a serious fixtures conundrum to solve but if there is a will there is a way. The above would mean fewer games overall as there is no qualifiers but I think the lift in crowds at the league games may balance that out.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 24/04/2019 21:44:31    2180145

While I agree that the championship does need an overhaul, I've generally disagreed with a tiered championship and I haven't seen anything yet to change my mind.

Look at the tiers in Hurling , if you're not competing for Liam then you basically don't exist. Then there's luxury treatment you get when you do make a final, take the Christy Ring final in 2016 for example, Croker was all but empty, neither the ref nor the4 scoreboard even knew what the score was, they presented the cup to Meath anyway, then discovered it was actually a draw.

This happened on the saturday of a bank holiday weekend, and the Gaa was so concerned they didn't bother their holes meeting up till the Tuesday, at which point they ordered a replay for the next saturday, not giving either team a proper chance to recover. 'Fcuk them, just get it over with'

I think you would have to be naive to think that a B final in football would get any better treatment. Anyway we've had those before and they came to nothing, this is not new ground, remember the Tommy Murphy cup!

Also I'm curious to see where all this sudden support for a second tiered championship has come from? Wasn't it only 3-4 years ago the GPA stated the following response having discussed the possibility of a two tiered championship with players from counties who would be effected:

"the overwhelming response from players in the counties concerned was that they wanted to continue to pit themselves against the game's marquee stars."

& again speaking about a two tiered championship:

"I think one county came back and said, 'Yeah, but we'd need to know more and what it might look like.

But everyone else said no, they didn't want it."

So what's changed, all of a sudden there's been a big u-turn? Personally I think it's very much media driven, a second tier is often touted as the answer to our prayers, but I remain unconvinced.

Anyway look, we have a tiered competition that works very well = the NFL, so why do we need to chuck out our cup competition for another another tiered competition?

I think it would be better to create a seeded world cup style competition, guarantees everybody 3 games, top two in each group go into a last 16 KO. Then if there's support, maybe a 2nd tier KO for the 8 teams who finished 3rd in their groups, stops any possible dead rubbers and gives the weaker teams something to play for.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 24/04/2019 21:50:56    2180146

I wouldn't say give it a go I'd say it's a necessity, the current format isn't fit for purpose

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 24/04/2019 22:27:41    2180149

I think something that would be excellent would be a super simple 2 tier football championship.

2 divisions of 16.

Each team plays a single round robin.

Top 6 through to All Ireland playoffs of Championship 1.

Bottom 3 relegated.

Championship 2 top 6 to Playoffs, losing semifinalists playoff for final promotion spot.

So easily understood.

To get up to a proper 16 team championship 1 would be a huge incentive for every team.

In hurling you'd be talking divisions of 12, 12 and 11. Top 4 in each division to semifinals. I'd say 2 up 2 down also.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 24/04/2019 22:30:40    2180150

Any change is bounded by the Provincial Council Set-up, so this maybe a solution to consider.

Alter the league to be 3 divisions. Top 4 teams in division 1 go into the All-Ireland semi-final and then final
Run the provincial championships in parallel, as a knockout.

You basically have the same as English soccer - why not copy whats worked for years?

Also, the biggest advantage to this format, you have a defined season, a start date, and an end date. You can have slots for clubs championship matches throughout the season - like English soccer has for International breaks!

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 25/04/2019 08:06:12    2180165

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 25/04/2019 10:08:17    2180175

For a Tier2 championship to work you need the teams separated at the start of the season.
lets take Carlow footballers for example.

You cant have them at the start of the year aiming to make a Leinster semi or final and then demote them to a Tier2 championship if they lost the 1st round of the Leinster. the players would have no interest in a B Championship after putting all their efforts into the A Championship initially. This would lead to players dropping off the panel , going to America etc

Teams need to be in their respective tier at the start of the year and know if they win it out then they will get promoted just like we see with club championships.

So come January when players are bursting their gut they know they are training to win the Tier2 championship and they wont lose players to America or just drop off the panel midway through the season.

This would lead to provincial championships getting scrapped at Senior intercounty level but are they really worthwhile anymore

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 25/04/2019 10:35:03    2180180

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 25/04/2019 12:01:40    2180196

I would love a proper two tier championship. But it will only really work if the provincials are scrapped as part of the Senior championship. If you are relegated from division 2 in the league you drop to intermediate. With the winner of Inter League and Championship promoted to division two and Senior Championship. Then the intermediate championship would be worth winning. In the event of a lower place 3 or division 4 team winning the runner up in Div 3 or 4 loose the right to promotion.

bugsie (Leitrim) - Posts: 199 - 25/04/2019 14:21:31    2180219

run a seeded 32 team knockout championship competition. Five games to win it! No replays except maybe the final. This gives everyone a chance of winning the big prize and keeps the romance of the giant killing alive. The losers in the first two rounds could go in to another competition if there is an appetite for it.

The provincials could be played before the summer and become a competition in their own right, but would have no bearing on the championship.

That's the way I think it should be - a proper All Ireland competition. And like you say, the first round losers could play off a C Competition with the next round losers playing out a B Competition. Would mean Counties getting the 2 games they are guaranteed in the current format and also shorten the calendar a wee bit allowing the Club games a bit more elbow room too. Probably wouldn't be as profitable though so can't see it ever being a runner.... can but dream.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 25/04/2019 15:08:47    2180228