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Replying To maroondiesel: "RD all of us born in the 1960's, I guess you were, were raised with the "Civil War" Politics. Both sides were wrong, the Brits set us up. Now I think Dev was a sneaky politician and Collins executed good men like Liam Mellows, so may they all rest in peace up in Glasnevin. As far as atrocities of the recent past go you are right in condemning them, on all sides. The GAA did not commit those atrocities however. If they are pro Irish language, national unity that is fine with me. Enjoy the breeze in Salthill next year, I think ye bet us in Pairc Tailteann last time out." Nothing like the sea air hopefully we witness it. As I said I'm totally for a united ire. I just don't think the gaa should play any part in the campaign as a organization. Very few of us would vote against it, but the organization imo must remain neutral.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 10/03/2019 15:39:02
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Replying To royaldunne: "Nothing like the sea air hopefully we witness it. As I said I'm totally for a united ire. I just don't think the gaa should play any part in the campaign as a organization. Very few of us would vote against it, but the organization imo must remain neutral." true, and if the GAA stay neutral that will help the cause of uniting the country.
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 10/03/2019 15:46:17
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Replying To maroondiesel: "true, and if the GAA stay neutral that will help the cause of uniting the country." Yep.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 10/03/2019 16:22:26
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Replying To royaldunne: "What??? Ok I'll give you a little bit of a history lesson of myself. my grandfather was in ashbourne in the ira in 1916, and fought under Micheál Collins. We grew up with a picture of the big fella beside the sacred heart picture and the red lamp, everyday we would be told to stand in front of it and remember that the big fella was seated at the right hand of our lord, if we spoke the word dev we would be told to spit afterwards, now for me while I adored my late dad looking back it was brainwashing, , we were always what would be described as constitutional nationalists these days, Austin Currie , john Hume and Seamus Mallon would be men I would admire in the upmost, however my quasi republican views were dealt a huge blow while living in Warington when they bombed it killing children, and while I know there was other unlawful killings, having been pulled in for questioning on that day cause I had a Irish accent (didn't bother me , and I completely understood why I was ) it left a bitter taste in mouth, and led me to profess not in my name , . On the flip side I have ZERO affiliation to unionists or there bigoted /racist views and actions. I find foster, dodds , Wilson etc to be the most repugnant people in politics on either side of the Irish Sea. I don't know how anyone could get that I am sympathetic in any way shape or form to the union or unionists POV. I am as I said a constitutional nationalist, I believe in a 32 county ire and will vote for same when the vote is called, however I do not want my sport (gaa football) that I live and breathe involved in it as a organization, individuals of course are welcome to do as they so wish.
I'll give a prime example many from Meath would know me from social media, I was a very big supporter of ssm (something the dup are against) but I understood the reason why David gaugh was not allowed to wear the wristband and I supported them in that. Also I would be quite prolife (not for religious reasons) but personal ones, i canvassed for a no vote in the referendum, but was highly critical of joe Sheridan a Meath man, who is a legend) and Mickey harte using the gaa to voice the same views as I was expressing. IMHO the only thing that could destroy the gaa is external politics, I go to a game to watch the flags of both counties to roar and shout on Meath , I don't go for any politics, and even if I agree with the arguments been put forward I don't want them mixed with sport." You were pulled in for questioning on the day of the Warrington bombings, obviously if you were there will be a record of this even without an arrest charge. There are some people who would be very interested in this story from a number of angles, there are a number of people who have spent years on this case, can you post more details ?
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 11/03/2019 00:49:01
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Replying To bloodyban: "Plenty of GAA people aren't for a United Ireland. I'd be one of them. For you to come on here and make assumptions for people living 4 and 5 hours south of you is outrageous. And the Pro Sinn Post before yours is ridiculous aswell. A left wing nut job party. I'd vote DUP before Sinn Fein no problem" Calm the oul head horse. Nobody's asking you to be the second coming of Seán South:)
And I'm not a party political person myself so I couldn't care less about digs at Sinn Fein,and infact I might agree with you on some issues relating to them as a party. I am a republican though and I see nothing wrong with the GAA,as an all Ireland organization,showing support for an all Ireland republic. When I say they should support the idea I also mean that they should reach out in good faith to the unionist community and reassure them of the benevolent nature of their intentions. I don't want to see done to the unionist people in a United Ireland what was done to nationalists in the north after partition. I mean that in all sincerity. You don't need to agree with me though,I would obviously hope you might be open to persuasion but sure hey whatever suits yerself.
seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/03/2019 01:50:26
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Replying To royaldunne: "What??? Ok I'll give you a little bit of a history lesson of myself. my grandfather was in ashbourne in the ira in 1916, and fought under Micheál Collins. We grew up with a picture of the big fella beside the sacred heart picture and the red lamp, everyday we would be told to stand in front of it and remember that the big fella was seated at the right hand of our lord, if we spoke the word dev we would be told to spit afterwards, now for me while I adored my late dad looking back it was brainwashing, , we were always what would be described as constitutional nationalists these days, Austin Currie , john Hume and Seamus Mallon would be men I would admire in the upmost, however my quasi republican views were dealt a huge blow while living in Warington when they bombed it killing children, and while I know there was other unlawful killings, having been pulled in for questioning on that day cause I had a Irish accent (didn't bother me , and I completely understood why I was ) it left a bitter taste in mouth, and led me to profess not in my name , . On the flip side I have ZERO affiliation to unionists or there bigoted /racist views and actions. I find foster, dodds , Wilson etc to be the most repugnant people in politics on either side of the Irish Sea. I don't know how anyone could get that I am sympathetic in any way shape or form to the union or unionists POV. I am as I said a constitutional nationalist, I believe in a 32 county ire and will vote for same when the vote is called, however I do not want my sport (gaa football) that I live and breathe involved in it as a organization, individuals of course are welcome to do as they so wish.
I'll give a prime example many from Meath would know me from social media, I was a very big supporter of ssm (something the dup are against) but I understood the reason why David gaugh was not allowed to wear the wristband and I supported them in that. Also I would be quite prolife (not for religious reasons) but personal ones, i canvassed for a no vote in the referendum, but was highly critical of joe Sheridan a Meath man, who is a legend) and Mickey harte using the gaa to voice the same views as I was expressing. IMHO the only thing that could destroy the gaa is external politics, I go to a game to watch the flags of both counties to roar and shout on Meath , I don't go for any politics, and even if I agree with the arguments been put forward I don't want them mixed with sport." Fair enough. I replied at length and it wasn't posted for whatever reason. I respect your opinion but I disagree with you on some issues. The GAA being neutral in a United Ireland debate is one issue I'd disagree on. I think they could have a positive contribution to make by way of outreach etc to the unionist people. But sure we'll just have to see how it all unfolds in the near future with brexit ongoing etc.
seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/03/2019 01:57:58
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I agree. I think we all have a tendency to get over excited around these issues and staying calm is hard. I know my blood pressure goes up whenever I hear about Border Polls and the like. Logically, it's very hard to see more than 2or 3 years ahead. Very hard to make predictions. Personally I feel Northern Ireland will still be part of the UK 50 years from now or maybe be it's own country. The United Ireland angle is the least likely outcome of the 3.
The GAA is a conservative organisation and usually back a winning horse so it would go against the grain to gamble on this issue
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 11/03/2019 10:11:44
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The GAA says that it should promote National Identity in the 32 Counties. That is a lot different to saying it supports a United Ireland. It also supports Irish National Identity all over the globe with Gaelic Games, that doesn't mean they want those regions to become part of Ireland.
It states in the GAA handbook that the organisation is non party political and I agree with this.
Just for the record I would support a border poll and a United Ireland. I do believe however that sport and politics should be separated. One should never feel unwelcome in a sports club because they hold a different opinion or have different politics.
There are plenty of members of the GAA North and South that do not think a United Ireland would be a good thing. Would the GAA taking a stance alienate those members? I think most definitely.
supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 11/03/2019 10:26:09
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Excellent post
I agree with you on each point
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 11/03/2019 19:46:23
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It's not 1884, GAA has evolved, it's just a sport now not a cultural movement
PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 11/03/2019 20:55:04
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Replying To supermon: "The GAA says that it should promote National Identity in the 32 Counties. That is a lot different to saying it supports a United Ireland. It also supports Irish National Identity all over the globe with Gaelic Games, that doesn't mean they want those regions to become part of Ireland.
It states in the GAA handbook that the organisation is non party political and I agree with this.
Just for the record I would support a border poll and a United Ireland. I do believe however that sport and politics should be separated. One should never feel unwelcome in a sports club because they hold a different opinion or have different politics.
There are plenty of members of the GAA North and South that do not think a United Ireland would be a good thing. Would the GAA taking a stance alienate those members? I think most definitely." The idea of a United Ireland isn't a party-political issue.
We obviously have one party who's central mandate is the seeking of a united Ireland.
The 2 main parties in Leinster House were both founded on the principal of the ultimate goal of a 32 county republic - one via opposition to the treaty, and one who viewed it as a temporary stepping stone.
You don't need to support any party to want to take that step.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 11/03/2019 21:41:44
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Replying To cavanman47: "The idea of a United Ireland isn't a party-political issue.
We obviously have one party who's central mandate is the seeking of a united Ireland.
The 2 main parties in Leinster House were both founded on the principal of the ultimate goal of a 32 county republic - one via opposition to the treaty, and one who viewed it as a temporary stepping stone.
You don't need to support any party to want to take that step." So a United Ireland is 100% a political issue.
Having a fuzzy pro Irish lean is fine.
To campaign for a united Ireland would involve hammering out the precise details of what shape a united Ireland should take.
That sort of process should have nothing to do with the GAA.
Brolly's article is pushing for the GAA to force the agenda. His reason being that the GAA is a large cultural, social organisation and so it is well positioned to leverage itself.
But people don't join the association because they want it to be campaigning for a united Ireland. People primarily join to play sports or for the cultural social side of things.
As such their membership should not be used as currency in the political process of bringing it about.
There really is no other 2 ways about it.
If anything can be taken from brexit a read across to this issue it would be that not all United Ireland's would be equal.
It is the prerogative of the body politic to hammer out the details of such and not a sporting/cultural organisation.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 12/03/2019 09:50:27
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Replying To cavanman47: "The idea of a United Ireland isn't a party-political issue.
We obviously have one party who's central mandate is the seeking of a united Ireland.
The 2 main parties in Leinster House were both founded on the principal of the ultimate goal of a 32 county republic - one via opposition to the treaty, and one who viewed it as a temporary stepping stone.
You don't need to support any party to want to take that step." It is a party political Issue. A stance on United Ireland or a Union with Britain is how 99% of political parties define themselves in the six counties. Taking one side or another is siding with the corresponding political parties.
I understand what you are saying, but ultimately national questions like this are answered by politicians and their respective parties. Same with the Marriage Equality referendum or the Repeal of the 8th Amendment in the south. The GAA didn't take a stance as they are political issues. The GAA is a sporting and cultural organisation not a political one.
supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 12/03/2019 11:58:32
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Replying To supermon: "It is a party political Issue. A stance on United Ireland or a Union with Britain is how 99% of political parties define themselves in the six counties. Taking one side or another is siding with the corresponding political parties.
I understand what you are saying, but ultimately national questions like this are answered by politicians and their respective parties. Same with the Marriage Equality referendum or the Repeal of the 8th Amendment in the south. The GAA didn't take a stance as they are political issues. The GAA is a sporting and cultural organisation not a political one." Yes, it is a party political issue in the north - I should have clarified that.
But my point is this -
In the 1921 election, Sinn Fein won 124 of 128 seats - an absolute landslide. The party had one goal in mind at that time - a united Ireland completely separate from British rule.
The treaty was then negotiated and in early 1922, the Dail ratified the treaty in a tight vote, with the threat of a horrific, unwinnable war against Britain hanging over us (64 for, 57 against).
Sinn Fein separated as a result and GF and FF were founded. But you knew all that.
So. . . no matter what your political affinity; if you are an Irish man or woman with ancestral lines dating back only a century, you are born of a nation which is on the path to, but yet to realize its goal.
It is utterly shameful to see some on here (who are not of the unionist persuasion) who would happily see our country remain divided.
As for whether the GAA should take a stance - I 100% feel they should as they represent a huge part of what any united Ireland would look like, and, it could be argued, would provide the greatest opportunity for cross-community reconciliation. Sport has a history of uniting people and they are the biggest sporting organisation on this island by a million miles.
You feel they shouldn't and I understand your reasoning.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 12/03/2019 13:38:55
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Replying To cavanman47: "Yes, it is a party political issue in the north - I should have clarified that.
But my point is this -
In the 1921 election, Sinn Fein won 124 of 128 seats - an absolute landslide. The party had one goal in mind at that time - a united Ireland completely separate from British rule.
The treaty was then negotiated and in early 1922, the Dail ratified the treaty in a tight vote, with the threat of a horrific, unwinnable war against Britain hanging over us (64 for, 57 against).
Sinn Fein separated as a result and GF and FF were founded. But you knew all that.
So. . . no matter what your political affinity; if you are an Irish man or woman with ancestral lines dating back only a century, you are born of a nation which is on the path to, but yet to realize its goal.
It is utterly shameful to see some on here (who are not of the unionist persuasion) who would happily see our country remain divided.
As for whether the GAA should take a stance - I 100% feel they should as they represent a huge part of what any united Ireland would look like, and, it could be argued, would provide the greatest opportunity for cross-community reconciliation. Sport has a history of uniting people and they are the biggest sporting organisation on this island by a million miles.
You feel they shouldn't and I understand your reasoning." Shameful? Why? For having a different opinion than yours?
Is there something more Irish about a citizen that can trace his or her famiky back century? Why not back to Brian Boru for good measure?
I consider myself a republican, but I'm not into jingoism.
I leave that kind of atttitude to the Brexiteers.
supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 12/03/2019 18:24:57
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Replying To supermon: " Replying To cavanman47: "Yes, it is a party political issue in the north - I should have clarified that.
But my point is this -
In the 1921 election, Sinn Fein won 124 of 128 seats - an absolute landslide. The party had one goal in mind at that time - a united Ireland completely separate from British rule.
The treaty was then negotiated and in early 1922, the Dail ratified the treaty in a tight vote, with the threat of a horrific, unwinnable war against Britain hanging over us (64 for, 57 against).
Sinn Fein separated as a result and GF and FF were founded. But you knew all that.
So. . . no matter what your political affinity; if you are an Irish man or woman with ancestral lines dating back only a century, you are born of a nation which is on the path to, but yet to realize its goal.
It is utterly shameful to see some on here (who are not of the unionist persuasion) who would happily see our country remain divided.
As for whether the GAA should take a stance - I 100% feel they should as they represent a huge part of what any united Ireland would look like, and, it could be argued, would provide the greatest opportunity for cross-community reconciliation. Sport has a history of uniting people and they are the biggest sporting organisation on this island by a million miles.
You feel they shouldn't and I understand your reasoning." Shameful? Why? For having a different opinion than yours? Is there something more Irish about a citizen that can trace his or her famiky back century? Why not back to Brian Boru for good measure? I consider myself a republican, but I'm not into jingoism. I leave that kind of atttitude to the Brexiteers."
Firstly, I wasn't referring to you as you haven't indicated that you feel that way.
Secondly, no, I wouldn't deem those people more Irish, but if your grandparents/great-grandparents were here in the 1920s, then they, in their overwhelming majority, democratically voted for a mandate for an independent united Ireland. When we get the opportunity, we should honour that.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 12/03/2019 18:51:57
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In the most respectful way possible, lads insisting here that sport and politics don't mix are gravely mistaken. Sporting organizations and allegiances often have some political and/or sociological underpinnings, and in this sense they mirror the wider society. If they didn't:
-There would be no GAA, or indeed gaelic games;
-Apartheid South Africa would not have been subjected to sporting boycotts;
-There would have been no Olympic boycotts in the 1980s;
-The Irish national anthem would be played before Ireland's rugby away fixtures;
-Derry City would not today play in the League of Ireland;
-Athletic Bilbao would not be existence;
-Rugby League and Union would still be one sport
-The FAI would not have broken away from the IFA etc.
I would strongly recommend the excellent "Football against the enemy" by Simon Kuper on this theme.
The question is: should the GAA involve itself in Tis political question?
IMO it would be unthinkable for an organization with the history and constitutional position of the GAA to "stand idly by" while a question of this magnitude is being put to the people.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 12/03/2019 19:08:09
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Replying To Gleebo: "In the most respectful way possible, lads insisting here that sport and politics don't mix are gravely mistaken. Sporting organizations and allegiances often have some political and/or sociological underpinnings, and in this sense they mirror the wider society. If they didn't:
-There would be no GAA, or indeed gaelic games;
-Apartheid South Africa would not have been subjected to sporting boycotts;
-There would have been no Olympic boycotts in the 1980s;
-The Irish national anthem would be played before Ireland's rugby away fixtures;
-Derry City would not today play in the League of Ireland;
-Athletic Bilbao would not be existence;
-Rugby League and Union would still be one sport
-The FAI would not have broken away from the IFA etc.
I would strongly recommend the excellent "Football against the enemy" by Simon Kuper on this theme.
The question is: should the GAA involve itself in Tis political question?
IMO it would be unthinkable for an organization with the history and constitutional position of the GAA to "stand idly by" while a question of this magnitude is being put to the people." I agree with you and with Cavan47. In clubs there is no divide with local politics, but a united Ireland is not about local politics and it would be good to have a united people in our small island.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 12/03/2019 20:18:18
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The GAA should stick to the sport and nothing else but that's just my opinion.
Emotionally we would all Love to see Ireland united someday but I don't think the time is right....looking at what century the DUP are living in, and the planet many unionists live on where it's all flags, the past, complete and utter nonsense then I fail to see where a United Ireland can come about in the short to medium term.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 12/03/2019 21:19:28
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Replying To yew_tree: "The GAA should stick to the sport and nothing else but that's just my opinion.
Emotionally we would all Love to see Ireland united someday but I don't think the time is right....looking at what century the DUP are living in, and the planet many unionists live on where it's all flags, the past, complete and utter nonsense then I fail to see where a United Ireland can come about in the short to medium term." Then you should ask them to change their stated values, in particular;
"We foster a clear sense of identity and place"
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 12/03/2019 22:13:04
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