Louth Forum

New Championship 2019

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On this issue of some players being finished football in july - last year based on the current structure if you didnt reach the knock out stages of champo you were basically finished football in july bar a relegation playoff (i think there was 1 more round of league in august). This means that basically 13 clubs were finished football in july.

The proposed all county champo will definitely result in players getting more football based on this.

woodenhead (Louth) - Posts: 100 - 15/01/2019 23:58:30    2157478

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "It's funny the only forum where the result is being openly and bluntly supported is the anonymous one. Kind of says alot. Before you say it I am speaking the exact same way on all forums. You can't put the blame on other players and clubs Westerns, Glyde and Sean's created a motion and campaigned for it. Without even detailing out every aspect of how it works. This is the idea "man on the moon" someone else figure out the ins and outs of it. If it works we're the great fellas if not it was the lads detailing its fault. You can shift the blame yous made the bed unfortunately we must all lie in it."
It's Gaelic Football in a nutshell. From the different rule changes every year to changing formats every few years, we just can't leave things well enough alone

GAAdundalk (Louth) - Posts: 482 - 16/01/2019 00:01:20    2157479

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Excellent article on this crazy plan in Dundalk Democrat. It outline all the faults with it particularly for a wee county like ours.. I don't think it would produce another Paddy Keenan either. It might also encourage transfers. If a Glyde/ Sean's/Westerns combo won the all-county and Glyde got to Intermediate final would there be a rush to Tallinstown the following year?

19616609 (Louth) - Posts: 1348 - 16/01/2019 02:22:01    2157487

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Replying To woodenhead:  "The majority of comments on here are a joke! Everybody giving out about the junior clubs etc for this being passed. EACH club were given the motion details weeks ago, nothing in the motion has changed since. The majority of clubs voted for and passed the motion, NOT only junior clubs. Obviously the MAJORITY of clubs are in favour of this!

Maybe each of you posters should firstly check with your club delegate to see what way your club voted last night, because more clubs voted YES than NO. If you feel it is such a bad motion, why only voice your opinion weeks after you got the motion!!

And some people saying that if the vote was held again tonight, that the result would be different. This has to be a joke. Nothing has changed in the motion for the vote to change and people should not know any more about the motion today than they did yesterday - everyone got the motion details, there was no secrets or surprises. If you think your club delegate would vote differently then i would advise you to go back to your club and ask why was the motion not discussed with players/committee etc. This is the REAL issue for alot of posters on here.

Some of the comments / podcasts are very negative .
Saying the cost of amalgamated teams is going to have huge expense because they have to buy jerseys etc - if the amalgamation cant afford jerseys then they will wear one of the clubs jerseys!
Saying that the all county championship wont improve the standard of football - so your saying that better players training together at a higher intensity (i.e. 3 or 4 amalgamated clubs) wont improve the quality of players?
Saying that it wont stop transfers - it will definitely reduce transfers to the bigger clubs (i.e. blues, marys, etc) because if a young fella see's the amalgamated team getting to a semi final / final of the all county championship they will feel they are playing a decent level and wont feel the need to transfer to the bigger clubs. In fact i think that the all county championship may result in players who have transferred to the bigger clubs in previous years transfer back to the smaller club, as the know they will get a crack at an all county champo.
Saying that players will be over stretched and drained, as there is so many competitions on at one time - you will have league, normal chamionship and then all county - no overlaps and no more fixtures than previously.
Saying that the intermediate/ junior clubs who win the championship wont have a game from July until October - once these clubs win the junior / intermediate championship (a) the junior team will amalgamate and play a HIGHER standard of football from July until October which will only improve the players and (b) one the intermediate champo winners win, they will play as a sole entity in the all county champo!

I do agree that the fact the winners of the Joe Ward may not represent louth in the leinster champo is wrong - this may need to be reviewed. However this is the one negitive. I really feel that all county champo will improve the standard and quality of football in Louth. The louth manager will be able to attend a all county competition with the best players on show in each game. Each game will be competitive. Like lets be honest, we are not getting this in the senior champo at the moment - it is very easy to pick the semi final line up at the start of the year.

We need to do something to improve the level and standard because our intercounty team is not improving and our Senior club champions have not made any strides in the leinster years.

Lets give it a go!"
Deluded. This competition will crash and burn.

kwiksilver (Louth) - Posts: 105 - 16/01/2019 03:47:34    2157488

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This competition will not work as all the other competitions are still in play. Actually I think the county board may have let this happen to watch it just fail. It has been set up to fail.

What I will say is this is an extremely bad reflection on how business is done in Louth. Something as big as this carried out in such a way. I'm assuming it was 26 to 25. Practically split down the middle without any due diligence, no planning , no player input. Woodenhead can say what he wants about delegates knew about this motion weeks in advance... but the county as a whole didnt. You know what lads we ain't Cork and we certainly ain't Kerry. I'm all for thinking outside the box but the way this has been handled is an absolute disgrace. Something very shady and fishy about all of this. The Westerns delegate was very "determined" to get the vote put to the floor. If only their delegates and their fellow club members were so determined in running their clubs correctly maybe their clubs would not be in the condition they are today. I do find it amazing that it's only last year that junior clubs were terrified of letting senior clubs second teams play at Junior level.

There is already a path in the existing senior championship for teams from junior league level to play in senior championship. If your good enough you will be there. Win your junior league graveyard first, then the competitive intermediate and then you will play senior. Not this mongrel championship to appease the weaker and lesser clubs.

kwiksilver (Louth) - Posts: 105 - 16/01/2019 04:17:27    2157489

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Replying To westyboy:  "The jocks seem to have a chip on their shoulder they skittered there one chance to do it and now that the Westies/Sean's/Glyde team might be on the cards they see that last year might be their only chance they may ever get. No surprise Baile Talun dominated underage football for periods in the past, there's a real chance they can dominate Joe Ward for years to come."
You may think this is a joke but its no wonder why nobody takes some of these junior clubs seriously with that attitude. You know it's bad when your own players want to leave.

kwiksilver (Louth) - Posts: 105 - 16/01/2019 04:50:19    2157490

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Replying To woodenhead:  "The majority of comments on here are a joke! Everybody giving out about the junior clubs etc for this being passed. EACH club were given the motion details weeks ago, nothing in the motion has changed since. The majority of clubs voted for and passed the motion, NOT only junior clubs. Obviously the MAJORITY of clubs are in favour of this!

Maybe each of you posters should firstly check with your club delegate to see what way your club voted last night, because more clubs voted YES than NO. If you feel it is such a bad motion, why only voice your opinion weeks after you got the motion!!

And some people saying that if the vote was held again tonight, that the result would be different. This has to be a joke. Nothing has changed in the motion for the vote to change and people should not know any more about the motion today than they did yesterday - everyone got the motion details, there was no secrets or surprises. If you think your club delegate would vote differently then i would advise you to go back to your club and ask why was the motion not discussed with players/committee etc. This is the REAL issue for alot of posters on here.

Some of the comments / podcasts are very negative .
Saying the cost of amalgamated teams is going to have huge expense because they have to buy jerseys etc - if the amalgamation cant afford jerseys then they will wear one of the clubs jerseys!
Saying that the all county championship wont improve the standard of football - so your saying that better players training together at a higher intensity (i.e. 3 or 4 amalgamated clubs) wont improve the quality of players?
Saying that it wont stop transfers - it will definitely reduce transfers to the bigger clubs (i.e. blues, marys, etc) because if a young fella see's the amalgamated team getting to a semi final / final of the all county championship they will feel they are playing a decent level and wont feel the need to transfer to the bigger clubs. In fact i think that the all county championship may result in players who have transferred to the bigger clubs in previous years transfer back to the smaller club, as the know they will get a crack at an all county champo.
Saying that players will be over stretched and drained, as there is so many competitions on at one time - you will have league, normal chamionship and then all county - no overlaps and no more fixtures than previously.
Saying that the intermediate/ junior clubs who win the championship wont have a game from July until October - once these clubs win the junior / intermediate championship (a) the junior team will amalgamate and play a HIGHER standard of football from July until October which will only improve the players and (b) one the intermediate champo winners win, they will play as a sole entity in the all county champo!

I do agree that the fact the winners of the Joe Ward may not represent louth in the leinster champo is wrong - this may need to be reviewed. However this is the one negitive. I really feel that all county champo will improve the standard and quality of football in Louth. The louth manager will be able to attend a all county competition with the best players on show in each game. Each game will be competitive. Like lets be honest, we are not getting this in the senior champo at the moment - it is very easy to pick the semi final line up at the start of the year.

We need to do something to improve the level and standard because our intercounty team is not improving and our Senior club champions have not made any strides in the leinster years.

Lets give it a go!"
Well said that's it in a nut shell.

N08CUTN (Mayo) - Posts: 90 - 16/01/2019 07:22:04    2157494

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I think the podcast is tinted by the position Mattock Rangers find themselves in now. Because returning to Senior has been such a goal for them the past 2 years. Good clubs like Mattock will hold their own especially in the formative years of these amalgamations. The podcast had a negative view of the motion and repeated a few points in different ways. It's great there is a podcast for Louth fans, but it shouldn't be used to moan about what ifs and buts.

1. It will increase championship revenues
2. It will create a good standard of competition overall
3. It will increase our chances of All Ireland Club progression
4. It will keep players interested away from other sports

S.M (Louth) - Posts: 88 - 16/01/2019 08:23:42    2157501

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Replying To woodenhead:  "Im saying i propose to let these players play junior 2 champo. i.e. its a proposal.
I was not one of the people behind it. I am trying to come up with positive simple solutions to some of the negative comments/ issues that have been higjlighted.

Also the intermediate winners will play as a senior club in the all county champo. ie on their own. Your comments above dont apply for them.

For the junior club champo winners , all of their squad could train with the amalgamated team (benefit of intense training) with some players playing all county champo and remainder playing junior 2 champo. This might work. Again this is only a positive simple proposal to deal with yet another minor hurdle being made into a big issue."
Letting the remaining players play jun 2 championship will push some original jun 2 players further down the pecking order and some will play no championship football at all but sure who cares about them they only pay the same membership train as often and have the same desire to play but aren't as technically gifted.

The co board should release a list of the proposed amalgamation and the criteria for each one ASAP. Then let the clubs inform them if they'll be participating so that a proper draft can be drawn up.

Wtf (UK) - Posts: 26 - 16/01/2019 10:14:39    2157515

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Replying To woodenhead:  "On this issue of some players being finished football in july - last year based on the current structure if you didnt reach the knock out stages of champo you were basically finished football in july bar a relegation playoff (i think there was 1 more round of league in august). This means that basically 13 clubs were finished football in july.

The proposed all county champo will definitely result in players getting more football based on this."
Hardly result in more football as 5 players at best will make it on the field from a club. Two more games for less than 40% of A clubs players does not equal more football for players.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 449 - 16/01/2019 10:19:19    2157516

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Replying To S.M:  "I think the podcast is tinted by the position Mattock Rangers find themselves in now. Because returning to Senior has been such a goal for them the past 2 years. Good clubs like Mattock will hold their own especially in the formative years of these amalgamations. The podcast had a negative view of the motion and repeated a few points in different ways. It's great there is a podcast for Louth fans, but it shouldn't be used to moan about what ifs and buts.

1. It will increase championship revenues
2. It will create a good standard of competition overall
3. It will increase our chances of All Ireland Club progression
4. It will keep players interested away from other sports"
1. Won't increase revenue. Less neutrals at real championship as all games on same weekends. County board will still have to pay for venue use with a smaller gate. Every all county championship fixture would want to have monster numbers to offset this. That is if there is enough clubs and venues to meet this condensed programme. Also, you are assuming that neutrals will go from venue to venue for the full weekend paying to Watch football.
2. Don't think there is time in the year for amalgamated teams to train and get challenges in to be at the level to compete as a unit to beat the current senior teams. No junior or inter team is going to sacrifice there 4/5 best lads to go off training for a novelty competition.
3. How do you see breaking momentum and the consistency of our main competition as helping the all Ireland club run? It simple will not. Dyi would not have competed in all county champ this year if serious about their provincial and all Ireland campaign. They would have had to go looking for challenges to get competitive games from August to October. Madness (best of luck dyi this weekend)
4. The players who don't get on all star panels will definitely go off to other sports when they find themselves as good as finished in July. Also the highly condensed fixtures to meet this will certainly drive lads to other sport.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 449 - 16/01/2019 10:33:40    2157523

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "1. Won't increase revenue. Less neutrals at real championship as all games on same weekends. County board will still have to pay for venue use with a smaller gate. Every all county championship fixture would want to have monster numbers to offset this. That is if there is enough clubs and venues to meet this condensed programme. Also, you are assuming that neutrals will go from venue to venue for the full weekend paying to Watch football.
2. Don't think there is time in the year for amalgamated teams to train and get challenges in to be at the level to compete as a unit to beat the current senior teams. No junior or inter team is going to sacrifice there 4/5 best lads to go off training for a novelty competition.
3. How do you see breaking momentum and the consistency of our main competition as helping the all Ireland club run? It simple will not. Dyi would not have competed in all county champ this year if serious about their provincial and all Ireland campaign. They would have had to go looking for challenges to get competitive games from August to October. Madness (best of luck dyi this weekend)
4. The players who don't get on all star panels will definitely go off to other sports when they find themselves as good as finished in July. Also the highly condensed fixtures to meet this will certainly drive lads to other sport."
People keep blabbering on about this gap from July until October for the JFC winners before they play leinster round 1. How some of the squad will have no games etc etc

the fact is that based on the current format, the group stages of the championship are finishesd the 3rd week in july. So the DYI played 1 champo game in august (QF), 1 champo game in sept (SF) and then the JFC final in october.

You say 'They would have had to go looking for challenges to get competitive games from August to October'.... 1 game per month isnt exactly ideal anyways !! So there is no massive change here and therefore this is another minor issue being turned into a big one!

woodenhead (Louth) - Posts: 100 - 16/01/2019 10:52:04    2157528

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "Hardly result in more football as 5 players at best will make it on the field from a club. Two more games for less than 40% of A clubs players does not equal more football for players."
LOL

If 7 players from each team make it into the amalgamated squad then it is definitely more football for the 7 players of each of the 13 teams that were finished in July last year!!! This means nearly 100 extra lads with football in august / september that they didnt have last year. Might stop them going off to play soccer. But i suppose youll come back to me with another negative comment

woodenhead (Louth) - Posts: 100 - 16/01/2019 10:55:05    2157529

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Replying To woodenhead:  "LOL

If 7 players from each team make it into the amalgamated squad then it is definitely more football for the 7 players of each of the 13 teams that were finished in July last year!!! This means nearly 100 extra lads with football in august / september that they didnt have last year. Might stop them going off to play soccer. But i suppose youll come back to me with another negative comment"
7 x 13 = 91
38 football clubs - 12 senior clubs = 26 Clubs
Assuming a panel of 21
21 x 26 =546 players outside senior
546 - 91 players who get extra football = 455 players without.

Condensed the whole league to what is possibly unmanageable to get less than 20% of lads more football.

If you want to keep it to your 13 club figure it's just 50%. Fair play lads great idea.

Im not being negative just realistic. For feck sake lads yous done your draft fixture schedule in word it's hard to have any respect for a calender not in excel.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 449 - 16/01/2019 11:19:39    2157535

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Replying To woodenhead:  "People keep blabbering on about this gap from July until October for the JFC winners before they play leinster round 1. How some of the squad will have no games etc etc

the fact is that based on the current format, the group stages of the championship are finishesd the 3rd week in july. So the DYI played 1 champo game in august (QF), 1 champo game in sept (SF) and then the JFC final in october.

You say 'They would have had to go looking for challenges to get competitive games from August to October'.... 1 game per month isnt exactly ideal anyways !! So there is no massive change here and therefore this is another minor issue being turned into a big one!"
It's called proper structure to allow for momentum to build and appropriate recovery time. Just makes sense really.

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 449 - 16/01/2019 11:21:15    2157538

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Replying To Wtf:  "Letting the remaining players play jun 2 championship will push some original jun 2 players further down the pecking order and some will play no championship football at all but sure who cares about them they only pay the same membership train as often and have the same desire to play but aren't as technically gifted.

The co board should release a list of the proposed amalgamation and the criteria for each one ASAP. Then let the clubs inform them if they'll be participating so that a proper draft can be drawn up."
I genuinely don't think it's veasable to prepare this, what is still essentially draft proposal, in the time we have. Unless the county board boys have plenty of annual leave it's just going to be a botch job. How did clubs vote yes to this!

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 449 - 16/01/2019 11:24:18    2157539

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Replying To woodenhead:  "LOL

If 7 players from each team make it into the amalgamated squad then it is definitely more football for the 7 players of each of the 13 teams that were finished in July last year!!! This means nearly 100 extra lads with football in august / september that they didnt have last year. Might stop them going off to play soccer. But i suppose youll come back to me with another negative comment"
By the way the LOL is a nice touch and calling my posts negatives. Sure that clearly discredits all of my points. Keep up the great work

WheresDeBallBag (Louth) - Posts: 449 - 16/01/2019 11:25:31    2157540

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Woodenhead, was it you that proposed this? Seems like it, are the Westerns out training since before Christmas like most senior clubs? No I doubt there is a bit of hard work in those lads, this if it goes ahead will be voted out next year, waste of time.
It's like almagamating 3 counties to try and stop Dublin winning, downright embarrassing.
If you want to play senior football, earn your way up. They'll be handing out medals for taking part next, I'll call it like it is. Tommy Durnin wants to leave to go to Ardee and this is what the Westerns came up with.
The 12 senior teams should opt out as is their right and then play for the Joe Ward...problem solved

GAAdundalk (Louth) - Posts: 482 - 16/01/2019 11:29:13    2157541

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Replying To GAAdundalk:  "Woodenhead, was it you that proposed this? Seems like it, are the Westerns out training since before Christmas like most senior clubs? No I doubt there is a bit of hard work in those lads, this if it goes ahead will be voted out next year, waste of time.
It's like almagamating 3 counties to try and stop Dublin winning, downright embarrassing.
If you want to play senior football, earn your way up. They'll be handing out medals for taking part next, I'll call it like it is. Tommy Durnin wants to leave to go to Ardee and this is what the Westerns came up with.
The 12 senior teams should opt out as is their right and then play for the Joe Ward...problem solved"
That would be spectacular if the 12 senior teams united and refused to play in it. To me the Joe Ward is the premier competition and the senior teams will treat it as such.

kwiksilver (Louth) - Posts: 105 - 16/01/2019 11:46:20    2157543

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Replying To WheresDeBallBag:  "7 x 13 = 91
38 football clubs - 12 senior clubs = 26 Clubs
Assuming a panel of 21
21 x 26 =546 players outside senior
546 - 91 players who get extra football = 455 players without.

Condensed the whole league to what is possibly unmanageable to get less than 20% of lads more football.

If you want to keep it to your 13 club figure it's just 50%. Fair play lads great idea.

Im not being negative just realistic. For feck sake lads yous done your draft fixture schedule in word it's hard to have any respect for a calender not in excel."
Simple maths -

Based on current structure 4 senior teams, 4 intermdiate teams plus 5 junior teams no champo football after july = 273 players

Based on new structure all the 4 senior teams would get champo football (84 players), 7 players from each of the 4 intermediate teams (28 players) plus 7 players from each of the 5 junior teams (35 players) will get champo after july = 147 players that will get football

So of the 273 players that currently have no championship football in August / Sept, the new proposal will get 147 of them back into training and playing champo games. POSITIVE as it stops them going to other sports.

woodenhead (Louth) - Posts: 100 - 16/01/2019 11:47:39    2157544

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