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Limerick-Will They Be A Kilkenny Or A Clare?

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With the new round robin system I can not see any team dominating again. A lot of good luck is also going to be involved. In Munster how much would you wager on Tipp not getting out next time? How much would you wager against Waterford playing in the end this year with one regular back and no home games? Don't be surprised if Limerick fail to make it out next year. That is not saying they are not a great teams and could win more All-Ireland's . However two of those five teams will not make it out in 2019 and anyone's guess who that might be.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 19/11/2018 15:50:46    2151661

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Interesting question. Like Clare in 2013, Limerick had a similar path to glory.. in division 1b for a while and without provincial glory they won the All-Ireland. Both had a very young age profile, building off successful under 21 experience
While odds would have been very much stacked against them at the start of their respective successful seasons, they had the composure to cross the line on the big day.

The Kilkenny team was the Tiger Woods of hurling. Unlikely to see this level of dominance again. Limerick or no other side I know bare an resemblance to them.

I'd like to think Limerick and Clare will win again. Maybe a comparison with Tipperary would be more appropriate.

Maybe they will write their own story - In a way, they already have.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 19/11/2018 16:01:37    2151663

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i dont see leinster being any less competitive than munster,i think in leinster a resurgent dublin under mattie kenny will give wexford and kilkenny a run for their money. i think only galway are certs to come out of leinster.
wexford have kilkenny in wexford park and are away to dublin.wexford had kk on the ropes in nowlan park this year,dublin should have bet kilkenny in parnell but they will be even better this year although you would imagine home advantage would swing it in favour of kilkenny,but it could be a 3-way playoff coming down to scoring difference.

i would still back limerick to come out of munster and after that it is 2 more,if they get their act together 1 of which i think will surely be tipp.after that,it is 1 of the rest!

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 20/11/2018 08:48:44    2151778

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Replying To perfect10:  "i dont see leinster being any less competitive than munster,i think in leinster a resurgent dublin under mattie kenny will give wexford and kilkenny a run for their money. i think only galway are certs to come out of leinster.
wexford have kilkenny in wexford park and are away to dublin.wexford had kk on the ropes in nowlan park this year,dublin should have bet kilkenny in parnell but they will be even better this year although you would imagine home advantage would swing it in favour of kilkenny,but it could be a 3-way playoff coming down to scoring difference.

i would still back limerick to come out of munster and after that it is 2 more,if they get their act together 1 of which i think will surely be tipp.after that,it is 1 of the rest!"
Leinster is more competitive since Kilkenny has gone back a little (just for now). Galway coming in and Wexford'e big improvement. Dublin you never know if on the way up or down. Hopefully up. However with no disrespect you can not say that Leinster is a five deep province at the same level as Munster. Looking at the spread of under 21 All-Ireland's with those five over the last 10 years gives some idea. We would be regarded as the weakest once but not necessarily anymore and no one would be surprised in us beating any of the other four. Minor and under 21 success changed that.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 20/11/2018 21:54:43    2151911

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For me the comparisons for both Limerick and Clare end at both team being very young any all Ireland that's won is brilliant no matter how it's won,in 13 Clare didn't beat tipp or Kilkenny which were the 2 big guns this in the general scheme of things doesn't mean a thing but if you want to compare one v the other it has to as Limerick beat everyone this yr bar of course Clare I think Clare probably over achieved in 13 and under achieved since then. Re Limerick I don't see them going anywhere they'll be there or thereabouts for next few yrs but all Ireland's Are hard won having said that I'd be disappointed if we didn't win another one with this team considering the age profile plus the word on the ground here in Limerick is that they're conducting themselves very well so that's a good base to begin with.

someday (Limerick) - Posts: 1104 - 20/11/2018 23:29:45    2151924

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the point stands though,it is 3 from 4 rather than 3 from 5.not a huge difference.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 21/11/2018 08:17:14    2151940

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Replying To perfect10:  "the point stands though,it is 3 from 4 rather than 3 from 5.not a huge difference."
Perfect 10 if you take the three that qualify from both provinces and then put the rest against each other the gap between the two who failed in Munster and the others would be great. No disrespect to those other counties just the reality. This alone will give some insight on how it is to be the first 3 out of Munster. The third spot in Leinster is a lot easier. Hopefully that will change and those peripheral teams like Dublin, Laois, Offaly and Laois can come up. Then it would be an unbelievable competition.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 21/11/2018 14:22:46    2152006

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So much competition so don't see anyone dominating.

Galway have been consistently the best team the last 4 years getting to all 4 semi finals then onto 3 finals and only winning once.

JDF (Galway) - Posts: 322 - 21/11/2018 15:35:53    2152018

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I think Limerick will be around for quite a while yet, don't see anyone dominating the AI championships for next few years, but Limerick are ahead of the pile at the minute. They certainly won't fade away.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 22/11/2018 12:48:55    2152101

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Why is 3rd place in Leinster easier? Kilkenny needed very late wins to beat Dublin and Wexford this year. Wexford needed a late 2 points to beat Dublin.
The margins were just as tight.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 22/11/2018 16:13:54    2152132

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Why is 3rd place in Leinster easier? Kilkenny needed very late wins to beat Dublin and Wexford this year. Wexford needed a late 2 points to beat Dublin.
The margins were just as tight."
We can agree to disagree. You are talking about the one team to be over come Dublin. In Munster it is two teams to overcome to get into third place. In all fairness and no disrespect to Dublin their standard at the moment would not be as good as the standard of the two out in Munster. The only true provincal championship is the Munster. Not saying this is the best thing but Galway are not a Leinster county. Take them out and your championship would be a two horse race. Thankfully Wexford came up because before that and Galway it was a one horse race. You would have to go back to Offaly before that to have competition. When was that the case in Munster ? Munster are the stumbling block to an open draw and sooner or later they will realize they are handicapping two teams. That would change quickly if the big two did not make it out for a few years. Leinster to lesser extent because when Galway are in final how can anyway say it is Leinster final. I don't anyone dragged a chuck of land over to the east coast.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 22/11/2018 17:09:31    2152138

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With the exception of Kilkenny, teams find it very tough to retain a title, i think there is more all irelands in them, but i cant seeing them dominating like Kilkenny did

PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 22/11/2018 18:10:38    2152145

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Replying To PyatPree:  "With the exception of Kilkenny, teams find it very tough to retain a title, i think there is more all irelands in them, but i cant seeing them dominating like Kilkenny did"
Agree, That was not just an exceptional Kilkenny team but an exceptional era for them. They did replace and cycle great player through to be replaced by other great players during that era. The opposition seemed to freeze at the sight of their jersey. Also they were able to gear up for a few matches due to the structure of the championship favouring them. Good for them taking that opportunity. Limerick should win more. No guarantees though and I would doubt if anyone dominating is on the cards. You never know.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 22/11/2018 20:22:10    2152159

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Replying To Canuck:  "We can agree to disagree. You are talking about the one team to be over come Dublin. In Munster it is two teams to overcome to get into third place. In all fairness and no disrespect to Dublin their standard at the moment would not be as good as the standard of the two out in Munster. The only true provincal championship is the Munster. Not saying this is the best thing but Galway are not a Leinster county. Take them out and your championship would be a two horse race. Thankfully Wexford came up because before that and Galway it was a one horse race. You would have to go back to Offaly before that to have competition. When was that the case in Munster ? Munster are the stumbling block to an open draw and sooner or later they will realize they are handicapping two teams. That would change quickly if the big two did not make it out for a few years. Leinster to lesser extent because when Galway are in final how can anyway say it is Leinster final. I don't anyone dragged a chuck of land over to the east coast."
well you say the only true provincial championship is munster,fair enough,but dont then be whinging about it being hard to get out of and the structure being unfair,because we all know the munster championship is the only reason hurling doesnt have an open draw.
also dont forget that many of us grew up with cork and tipp being the munster final,and also with waterford being whipping boys like kerry would be now - but that is ok,for kerry to win the mcdonagh cup and have to play off against bottom team in munster,while bottom team in leinster is relegated automatically,right?
that is called wanting to have your cake and eat it!
it is very competitive now,but that very much was not always the case.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 23/11/2018 09:14:23    2152190

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Limerick won't dominate it but are in a good position to be in the mix next year.

Problem is a lad in Limerick (insert Galway, Clare, etc etc ) with one AI medal is a hero whereas in Kilkenny the lad with one AI medal is hardly known.

It's all about hunger and drive and it will be interesting to see how Limerick fare as 2019 comes along.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 23/11/2018 12:51:12    2152221

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Replying To perfect10:  "well you say the only true provincial championship is munster,fair enough,but dont then be whinging about it being hard to get out of and the structure being unfair,because we all know the munster championship is the only reason hurling doesnt have an open draw.
also dont forget that many of us grew up with cork and tipp being the munster final,and also with waterford being whipping boys like kerry would be now - but that is ok,for kerry to win the mcdonagh cup and have to play off against bottom team in munster,while bottom team in leinster is relegated automatically,right?
that is called wanting to have your cake and eat it!
it is very competitive now,but that very much was not always the case."
I am not whinging about it being harder to get out of Munster or never called it unfair. Just stating the facts first and secondly expressing an opinion. Neither do I say the system is totally fair to everyone (Kerry) but it is what it is. With regards whipping boys. A kind of derogative description of anyone. However your prerogative to use. Facts again though with 60 years of viewing. Waterford were at a low ebb in the late 70's and 80's. All- Ireland final in the 30's. Won one in the 40's. Contested two in the 50's. Contested one in the 60's. Competitive in the 90's and I sure you know their history since the turn of the century. Again for all that a slim return on All-Ireland wins showing the competitive nature of Munster hurling. During my time I have been at Leinster finals that surpassed anything I have seen in Munster. Especially between Kilkenny and Wexford. However in my opinion the total competition never was or is as competitive as Munster. The same as Munster football is and was never as competitive as the other provinces.
Points of discussion of how difficult it will be for Limerick to dominate. Nothing putting down Leinster hurling. Keep up the good banter.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 23/11/2018 13:50:45    2152230

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Replying To perfect10:  "well you say the only true provincial championship is munster,fair enough,but dont then be whinging about it being hard to get out of and the structure being unfair,because we all know the munster championship is the only reason hurling doesnt have an open draw.
also dont forget that many of us grew up with cork and tipp being the munster final,and also with waterford being whipping boys like kerry would be now - but that is ok,for kerry to win the mcdonagh cup and have to play off against bottom team in munster,while bottom team in leinster is relegated automatically,right?
that is called wanting to have your cake and eat it!
it is very competitive now,but that very much was not always the case."
Perfect 10. Did cork and Tipp dominate Munster finals all that much. In the seventies they contested one Munster final, in the eigthties, they contested four, in the nineties two, in the oughties three, and not that many in this decade. Back in the forties they played in two, when Cork and Limerick played in four and as far as I know they contested none at all in the thirties. Cork/Tipp is a much over hyped rivalry

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 23/11/2018 14:51:31    2152241

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Perfect 10. Did cork and Tipp dominate Munster finals all that much. In the seventies they contested one Munster final, in the eigthties, they contested four, in the nineties two, in the oughties three, and not that many in this decade. Back in the forties they played in two, when Cork and Limerick played in four and as far as I know they contested none at all in the thirties. Cork/Tipp is a much over hyped rivalry"
Correct and the facts are in the stats. Kilkenny has won 55% (71) of Leinster Championships The next to them is Dublin with 18% (24). Wexford next with 15% (20)
Cork have won 41% (54) Munster tittles. Tipp have won 32% (42). Limerick have won 15% (19 ) with 27 runners up . Waterford 9 with 20 runners up. Clare 6 with 21 runners up. Kerry 1 with 4 runners up. Put in the runners up to show how competitive the three lesser lights have been. A total of 72 runner up between them.
Limerick are equal to the third place team in Leinster that would suggest parity but hold on, only 3% behind the second placed team in Leinster. The stats reinforces your assertion that Cork and Tipp have not been near as dominant in Munster as Kilkenny in Leinster and mine that it its much harder to win the Munster Championship.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 23/11/2018 21:21:29    2152271

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Replying To Canuck:  "Correct and the facts are in the stats. Kilkenny has won 55% (71) of Leinster Championships The next to them is Dublin with 18% (24). Wexford next with 15% (20)
Cork have won 41% (54) Munster tittles. Tipp have won 32% (42). Limerick have won 15% (19 ) with 27 runners up . Waterford 9 with 20 runners up. Clare 6 with 21 runners up. Kerry 1 with 4 runners up. Put in the runners up to show how competitive the three lesser lights have been. A total of 72 runner up between them.
Limerick are equal to the third place team in Leinster that would suggest parity but hold on, only 3% behind the second placed team in Leinster. The stats reinforces your assertion that Cork and Tipp have not been near as dominant in Munster as Kilkenny in Leinster and mine that it its much harder to win the Munster Championship."
Thanks Canuck. Incidentally after seeing three Limerick champions, including my own club, sent packing in Munster Club Championship games I am hugely impressed with the current state of Decies hurling. If we cannot hold on to it next year I would love to see ye win it.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 23/11/2018 22:41:45    2152274

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Perfect 10. Did cork and Tipp dominate Munster finals all that much. In the seventies they contested one Munster final, in the eigthties, they contested four, in the nineties two, in the oughties three, and not that many in this decade. Back in the forties they played in two, when Cork and Limerick played in four and as far as I know they contested none at all in the thirties. Cork/Tipp is a much over hyped rivalry"
Most of the Cork/Tipp rivalry originated in the 1950's. Cork won All Ireland in 1952, breaking a period of Tipp dominance (3 AI in a row), then went on to complete 3 All Ireland's in 1952/52/54.
Some of the games were tempestuous..in particular a Munster final in 1961.
Ring and Paddy Barry clashes with the Tipp full back line fueled the rivalry...
However Ring relished playing against Tipp, and also on the Munster teams of that era...the rivalry was left on the field.
Oldtourman is correct when he states that the Cork/Tipp rivalry has waned. Both counties have not dominated in a long while.

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 25/11/2018 12:39:03    2152355

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