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Instead Of Splitting Dublin In Two...

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Replying To thelongridge: "I don' see Cavan or Managhan, Tyrone or Kerry in this proposal. Kilkenny don't take part in the Leinster SFC. Putting Offaly in Thomond, really!" Cavan and Monaghan would be senior counties and playing against the divisional teams (similar to Kerry senior clubs playing against divisional teams). I put Kilkenny in because I think they would enter a team in a competition where the best teams they would have to play would be in the lower half of div4. Offaly can be in the Leinster division if you like. Doesn't make a difference because your average GAA man always finds something wrong with any new idea. That's why all things suggested on this forum are just for discussion. There will never be change because people fear change. If I was to draw up a similar championship for hurling. It would be the same structure as now but with divisional teams entering at q final stage in a round robin. Leinster, Munster, Connacht and Ulster in a draw with the top 2 in Munster and Leinster The Leinster team would consist of the bottom team in the Leinster hurling championship and all other non Leinster championship teams. Same for Munster or Connacht if Galway finished bottom in Munster tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1134 - 16/09/2018 22:51:24 2142090 Link
All 31 counties are senior football teams, of varying size and football ability. It will be hard to break the provincial system, counties like to beat their neighbours, even if their provincial or national ambitions will end early. It's part of the excitement. I would favour a round robin system in each province, 2 groups in Leinster and Ulster, with Connacht and Munster each using a single group. There would be no qualifiers. The alternative is to have an open draw, but that is a very long term solution. I believe everyone is trying to improve the championship, in proposing their plans. Down through the years there have always been strong teams and weaker teams in each province. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1747 - 17/09/2018 10:53:01 2142157 Link
Replying To thelongridge: "All 31 counties are senior football teams, of varying size and football ability. It will be hard to break the provincial system, counties like to beat their neighbours, even if their provincial or national ambitions will end early. It's part of the excitement. I would favour a round robin system in each province, 2 groups in Leinster and Ulster, with Connacht and Munster each using a single group. There would be no qualifiers. The alternative is to have an open draw, but that is a very long term solution. I believe everyone is trying to improve the championship, in proposing their plans. Down through the years there have always been strong teams and weaker teams in each province." Keeping the same 31 counties all at the same level is pointless in my opinion. The population is moving to the cities and the GAA need to adapt to maximize the opportunities for people to play the game in those areas. That means creating more teams in the cities while still providing opportunities for those in more rural counties and clubs. While people are loyal to their counties - it must be remembered that the county boundaries themselves were a political construct in the first place. The GAA needs to move with the times and provide a platform for players to play at the highest level they can, be they from the city or the back arse of nowhere. The reality today is the drop off rate post minor grade in urban areas is huge. Smaller counties can't hold a panel together for more than 2 years as players won't train for years on end for 2-3 championship matches every year and for only 1 match you might have a chance of winning. A tiered structure with some form of amalgamation of smaller counties is the best option. Those amalgamated counties can pool their resources for the senior championship but be separate for their own level. If they can get promoted on their own then all the better. The Kerry championship style system means that all top quality players will have the chance to play at the highest level and not be stuck playing for a badly run county team and end up giving up on the whole thing tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1134 - 17/09/2018 16:17:14 2142266 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I stand by my point really, there are over 100 games in the championship every year, only 8 of them include Dublin, assuming they make a final. The entertainment value has been shockingly bad broadly and i put that down to poor provision of entertainment and a defensive shell approach personally." Sorry but I don't understand your answer are you saying that nothing needs to change excpet teams give up the defensive approach and attack more? Two of the most lauded victories this summer were Carlow over Kildare and Fermanagh over Monaghan both teams used a blanket defence to stifle better opposition. They both had their critics for taking this approach (Brolly in particular went to town on Fermanagh) but their fans were happy to finally have a big scalp win, and turned up in decent numbers to see their teams progress. When you say "entertainment value" or "provision of entertainment" are you talking about better coaching country wide or changes to the rules so that teams can't just sit 14 men in their own half or are you talking about an uber elite championship where we can eliminate all of the "weaker" teams who have taken on the Tyrone blanket model and are using it to mask a lack of talent? Just wondering what your answer is to the problem you've outlined. cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 17/09/2018 16:42:19 2142272 Link
Replying To cavandub: "Sorry but I don't understand your answer are you saying that nothing needs to change excpet teams give up the defensive approach and attack more? Two of the most lauded victories this summer were Carlow over Kildare and Fermanagh over Monaghan both teams used a blanket defence to stifle better opposition. They both had their critics for taking this approach (Brolly in particular went to town on Fermanagh) but their fans were happy to finally have a big scalp win, and turned up in decent numbers to see their teams progress. When you say "entertainment value" or "provision of entertainment" are you talking about better coaching country wide or changes to the rules so that teams can't just sit 14 men in their own half or are you talking about an uber elite championship where we can eliminate all of the "weaker" teams who have taken on the Tyrone blanket model and are using it to mask a lack of talent? Just wondering what your answer is to the problem you've outlined." Yes that exactly what i am saying. Your premise is is that smaller counties can only defensive football, im not sure that is the case really. Surely if defensive football can be coached so to can offensive football. Look at Loais this year and Kildare and to some extent Donegal changing their style of play brought a Ulster, Commons have won leagues and two Connacht tiles playing open stuff. its an assumed belief that playing defensive football is the only way. You also assume that its only the smaller counties playing defensive football or blankets its not, many top counties also play a defensive shell system. Particularly against teams that play offensively. All of this drags the game to a lower ebb as a spectacle. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/09/2018 17:12:57 2142278 Link
would there b anything to be said for intercounty football eventually going out of existence? if the GAA eventually goes dwwn the professional or even semi professinal route then surely inter county football must go and we will have maybe two conferences a southern one and northern one of just clubs and intercounty club activity. this would have premier league, div 1 ,2 3 etc. so dublin may have 4 premier league clubs such as Kilmacud, Ballyboden, ballymun, castleknock, maybe meath has one, offaly one, kildare one , llongford one , down one , tyrone 2 maybe mayo 1 etc. 20 teams in each division with a full season and playoffs. transfers etc. you could base it on the AFL in australia if it works over there surely it will work here dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 693 - 18/09/2018 15:17:23 2142504 Link
Replying To dickie10: "would there b anything to be said for intercounty football eventually going out of existence? if the GAA eventually goes dwwn the professional or even semi professinal route then surely inter county football must go and we will have maybe two conferences a southern one and northern one of just clubs and intercounty club activity. this would have premier league, div 1 ,2 3 etc. so dublin may have 4 premier league clubs such as Kilmacud, Ballyboden, ballymun, castleknock, maybe meath has one, offaly one, kildare one , llongford one , down one , tyrone 2 maybe mayo 1 etc. 20 teams in each division with a full season and playoffs. transfers etc. you could base it on the AFL in australia if it works over there surely it will work here" I think there'd be more to be said for another mass realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8597 - 18/09/2018 17:46:02 2142545 Link
Jesus , I have to say I'm impressed with the amount of ingenuity that's being displayed and the thinking being put into making changes to essentially ensure that Dublin do not continue to be as successful. Maybe if some of the brilliant minds that are operating here and elsewhere put half as much thought into how other counties might maximize there resources it would be better spent. Dublin have started to utilize the resources that they have and have worked damn hard for their achievements and you can be sure it will not last forever. You only have to look at some of the stuff going on currently in other counties and in the relatively recent past to see that some county boards would never be any better no matter what you gave them. " centers of excellence " is right, " centers of excuses " more like it. Donegal got their act together and with the right people all pulling together produced the best side the county has had represent them only a few short years ago. Kk have also made far more of the resources they have than many much larger hurling counties and dominated in the process. People couldn't stand them either when they were doing 2, 3, & 4 in a row. That's not by accident , it's because they have the right structures in place , the right management and a county board who are the right people to get the best results possible. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 18/09/2018 18:21:43 2142554 Link
Ask the Kerry, Mayo, and the likes, players do they want Dublin split and you'll get a resounding no. The weak counties will never win an AI either way. Listen to great players like Tomás O'Sé and Spillane, people who lived the game. We won't win forever but we'll be as annoying as Kerry from now on so there's two Kerry's now! realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8597 - 18/09/2018 22:24:07 2142597 Link
Wouldn't be long before arguments and internal difficulties arise, especially if former rivals join. "how are 10 Clare lads starting" "the manager is bias" etc.. Impasses in the new county boards or whatever they'd be called. County 'cliques' at training, lack of unity and passion. blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 1055 - 19/09/2018 09:32:53 2142629 Link
Replying To Dubh_linn: "Jesus , I have to say I'm impressed with the amount of ingenuity that's being displayed and the thinking being put into making changes to essentially ensure that Dublin do not continue to be as successful. Maybe if some of the brilliant minds that are operating here and elsewhere put half as much thought into how other counties might maximize there resources it would be better spent. Dublin have started to utilize the resources that they have and have worked damn hard for their achievements and you can be sure it will not last forever. You only have to look at some of the stuff going on currently in other counties and in the relatively recent past to see that some county boards would never be any better no matter what you gave them. " centers of excellence " is right, " centers of excuses " more like it. Donegal got their act together and with the right people all pulling together produced the best side the county has had represent them only a few short years ago. Kk have also made far more of the resources they have than many much larger hurling counties and dominated in the process. People couldn't stand them either when they were doing 2, 3, & 4 in a row. That's not by accident , it's because they have the right structures in place , the right management and a county board who are the right people to get the best results possible." Not sure where you were aiming that one but I personally couldn't care less if Dublin continue to win titles from now till the end of time I may be a Cavan supporter but my kids are Dubs and Dublin are now my second team (when Cavan go out which normally doesn't take very long). My issue is more the death of the game, Football is terrible at the moment the only match I ever look forward to is a Dublin Mayo ding dong. Don't give me the Kerry line, they are 3 years off the Dubs at the moment because defensively they are really poor. I've heard people bring up the Australian rules example of an organisation that has constantly changed it's rules over a number of years to try and bring more entertainment back to their game I don't see why the GAA doesn't try something similar. Try 13 or 14 a side, try every two hand passes requires a footpass to follow or every 6 passes requires a shot at the posts whatever, I'm just speaking off the top of my head here. Whatever happens I'm not worried about the Dubs at all, they will adapt and thrive and still be the best as far as I can see. cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 19/09/2018 12:34:43 2142672 Link
Doesn't really matter how they dress the game up for entertainment value, if Dublin were being beaten every 2nd year or whatever there'd be far less talk of how the game has fallen. In fact any rule change would almost suit Dublin as they are by far the most adaptable team. realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8597 - 19/09/2018 13:03:12 2142682 Link
At the beginning of this thread, a point is made that - 1) Certain weaker counties could merge with their border neighbours; and 2) Traditional counties could stay as they are. It is said that 20 teams could be the sweet spot. I have another idea - in addition to the above, why not allow the higher population centres have additional teams. Say, let counties (or merged regions) have an additional representative team per 120,000 population (rounded up or down). So, Cork keeps its current team - but in addition, for its population of 540,000, could get four regional teams - say Cork City North, City South, County West and County East. Kildare and Meath could add their B teams etc. This gives players a proportionate opportunity nationwide to participate for the Sam Maguire Cup. It doesn't break up the Dubs - and in that sense, they retain the current and future advantage of having a concentrated population. There is something here for everyone - all 32 counties could stay separate or merge - and an increase in the number of teams would actually strengthen the competition with increased rivalries - imagine Dublin v Dublin City North; Kildare v Kildare B; or Cork v Cork City South. You could target an equal number of teams in each Province (say 12), to make each symmetric, equitable and competitive. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 24/09/2018 06:12:13 2143446 Link
I'm totally against the merger of any counties and equally against the splitting of any counties. Either of those suggestions is the beginning of the end and soon we'll be watching the South Connemara Sea Serpents v The Causway Coastal Giants live and exclusive on Sky. The rooting of the GAA in place is what makes it successfull. It reflects the primitive clanship within us all, to mess with that and the history would ruin the association. Rather than coming up with plans to fix the County game because Dublin are too good, why not get back to your own club and fix whatever problems exist there. Stronger Clubs = Stronger Counties. The Dubs can be beaten, you just have to work as hard as they do, and harder because we are all playing catchup. ShinerMackey (Tyrone) - Posts: 14 - 24/09/2018 13:30:56 2143525 Link
You think the attendances are down this year, wait until they split or merge and it'll be like league of Ireland. realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8597 - 24/09/2018 14:11:45 2143535 Link
Instead of splitting the Dubs - why not let them get them play their B and C teams as well or regional teams Dublin City North, Dublin County Southeast etc. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 27/09/2018 02:34:05 2144053 Link
Make Dublin players commute to train in Belmullet and twice a week and let the Mayo lads living in Dublin train there....seems fair enough...right? right??? The_DOC (Galway) - Posts: 709 - 27/09/2018 11:41:17 2144087 Link
Replying To The_DOC: "Make Dublin players commute to train in Belmullet and twice a week and let the Mayo lads living in Dublin train there....seems fair enough...right? right???" People assume the Dublin lads, all work in Dublin, Jack McCaffery is working up in Louth and i think Ciaran Kilkenny was working up in Donegal at one point. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/09/2018 16:08:15 2144127 Link
Replying To omahant: "Instead of splitting the Dubs - why not let them get them play their B and C teams as well or regional teams Dublin City North, Dublin County Southeast etc." How about we leave Dublin as they are. superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 27/09/2018 17:11:42 2144132 Link
Replying To The_DOC: "Make Dublin players commute to train in Belmullet and twice a week and let the Mayo lads living in Dublin train there....seems fair enough...right? right???" either poor attempt at humor or just a down right stupid suggestion , most likely a stupid suggestion Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 27/09/2018 20:24:37 2144153 Link