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Replying To DonaldDuck: "Yep I think this Dublin team with Fenton, Connolly, Brogan, Kilkenny, McCarthy, Cooper, McCaffrey, Cluxton to name but a few multi-allstars would beat either of that Tyrone or Kerry team with room to spare. Just my opinion.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3297 - 15/09/2018 21:44:58 Its all hypothetical but really is a bit much to say(and quite arrogant) theyd beat those sides comfortably. Those sides were extremaly good and to say theyd lose to this dublin side by few scores is very misguided IMO" No it's not arrogant. I said it's my opinion. I've been going to games since the 70s but first real memory was the Leinster final of 1980 with Dublin going down to a great Offaly team. IMO this Dublin team have the perfect blend of athleticism, skill and tactics to beat any team that I've seen in previous decades, back to the 70s. Again not arrogance, my opinion. Somebody made a comment that the opposition has been poor in the 10s. No it hasn't. I've named most of the Kerry team of '11 up above, the Donegal and Mayo teams of the 10s are the best those counties have ever produced. Granted traditional powerhouses like Galway and Meath have been absent but they were absent along with Dublin in the 00s.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 15/09/2018 23:07:32
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "How old was joe macquillan in 2011 joxer?" Hope you're joking. Pathetic if you're not. I'd expect to see it on other areas of social media, people on here are supposed to have a bit more about them.
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 15/09/2018 23:30:14
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Replying To sam1884: "I do think the great Kerry teams of the 70's and 80's had an easier run to their All Ireland's than the current Dublin team. I would disagree with your view on the 00's though. I believe it was the strongest decade of football in the last thirty years. Would the current Dublin team have won All Ireland's during that decade - 100% yes. I do think this Dublin team play to the level required to win All Ireland's and if needed could go up a few gears, they are without doubt the best team of all time. If the 00's was the decade this team competed though they would have had some battles and could they have won 4 or 5 in a row?! I would say they would have dominated the period but would likely have got caught in a few big finals. The Tyrone and Kerry teams won the majority of All Ireland's in that time but don't forget Galway won it in 2001, and Armagh in 2002. Remember Kerry and Tyrone's huge battles with Armagh. We also had a very strong Cork team (2010 eventually won it) who also beat Kerry in a few Munster finals and whilst Donegal people might not acknowledge it, a very strong team from there who were unlucky to come at a time football was so strong in Ulster. I think the Kerry team of that era was one of the best produced in the county but they ran into a great era for football so couldn't get beyond back to back like a team as good would any other era. I think this Dublin team whilst winning All Ireland's would have had the same issue, it's easier to get caught when there are at least three very strong teams playing that era. I would say the 00's had at least three very strong teams who actually all won All Ireland's." 90's was probably better again with so many brilliant teams and different winners. It was a great time to be following football. I think the level of personal commitment required of players to gain a seat at the top table now means we won't see that again unless something changes radically.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 16/09/2018 00:03:11
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Replying To sam1884: "I do think the great Kerry teams of the 70's and 80's had an easier run to their All Ireland's than the current Dublin team. I would disagree with your view on the 00's though. I believe it was the strongest decade of football in the last thirty years. Would the current Dublin team have won All Ireland's during that decade - 100% yes. I do think this Dublin team play to the level required to win All Ireland's and if needed could go up a few gears, they are without doubt the best team of all time. If the 00's was the decade this team competed though they would have had some battles and could they have won 4 or 5 in a row?! I would say they would have dominated the period but would likely have got caught in a few big finals. The Tyrone and Kerry teams won the majority of All Ireland's in that time but don't forget Galway won it in 2001, and Armagh in 2002. Remember Kerry and Tyrone's huge battles with Armagh. We also had a very strong Cork team (2010 eventually won it) who also beat Kerry in a few Munster finals and whilst Donegal people might not acknowledge it, a very strong team from there who were unlucky to come at a time football was so strong in Ulster. I think the Kerry team of that era was one of the best produced in the county but they ran into a great era for football so couldn't get beyond back to back like a team as good would any other era. I think this Dublin team whilst winning All Ireland's would have had the same issue, it's easier to get caught when there are at least three very strong teams playing that era. I would say the 00's had at least three very strong teams who actually all won All Ireland's." Its funny when you think back, i remember many at the time saying football was dead, using terms like puke football, that defensive football would destroy the game, crowds were diminishing as a result and the Gaa was at a cross roads. Somethings never change. :)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/09/2018 09:12:08
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Its a weird one really, get beaten regularly and the era is competitive.
Not get beaten regularly and the era is not competitive.
Its hard to know what to do with Dublin success because its never happened in the game before.
Im not sure that success has been achieved across such a breath of counties there is literally no team in the country in this era that have had aspirations to win an All Ireland that havent been beaten by Dublin at some point, its crossed generation of teams now. Im not sure that has happened before.
I dont think its correct to say the rest of Ireland has been in transition for a decade, will football suddenly become competitive again when Dublin loose a game or somebody beats Dublin in a final.
No point comparing teams from different eras the record books take care of that in my opinion.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/09/2018 09:22:57
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Replying To TheUsername: "Its funny when you think back, i remember many at the time saying football was dead, using terms like puke football, that defensive football would destroy the game, crowds were diminishing as a result and the Gaa was at a cross roads. Somethings never change. :)" Ahh I think you'd find some people had their own agenda, and in particular feared how strong Tyrone and Armagh were. If you study that era the crowds were far from decreasing. I remember All Ireland Quarter Final weekends, almost full houses over two or three days. Unless Kerry played Cork in the All Ireland semi final crowds were always 60000 plus. Yes people said football was "puke" but this was a media bias against certain counties. Football is in good health now but we are going through the same problem as Hurling did with Kilkenny's dominance. Who know's how the Dubs will react after winning the five as I suspect they will, things could open up again.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 16/09/2018 09:37:11
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The record books are where any teams greatness is measured after that it's just opinions.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 16/09/2018 10:17:17
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Replying To Gavvygavgav: "Hope you're joking. Pathetic if you're not. I'd expect to see it on other areas of social media, people on here are supposed to have a bit more about them." Nah, hoganstand is the same as all other forums. Don't think we are experts on here or discussion is balanced, we are just a bunch of gaa followers winding each other up, which is really easy to do having followed a few threads recently.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 16/09/2018 11:32:02
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Replying To Joxer: "Eh no. This Dublin panel sent the greatest Tyrone team of all time to a watery grave in 2011 when they beat them out the gate in the QF with a Dermot Connolly masterclass. The Kerry team of 11-15 could still be classified as a great team yet Dublin dismissed them. At the same time Dublin put potentially one of the greates Donegal teams of all time to the sword. Finally, IMO one of the greatest teams of our time, the very talented Mayo team of 12-17 has been repeatedly defeated by this Dublin team. What was your point again??? Just to remind you that Kerry once won a Sam having played 3 games, yes 3 games!! How many must Dublin win to win Sam now? I'll let you do the maths. This great Dublin team makes teams, which would have looked great in another era, seem average. That's not a boast at all, it's just a fact." Tyrone were gone as a serious team in 09. By 11, they were poor. Current Tyrone team nothing more than good average. Kerry team that beat us in 86 were the greatest team I've seen. Imagine those boys trained to modern standards - no contest
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 16/09/2018 13:54:54
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Replying To essmac: "Tyrone were gone as a serious team in 09. By 11, they were poor. Current Tyrone team nothing more than good average. Kerry team that beat us in 86 were the greatest team I've seen. Imagine those boys trained to modern standards - no contest" No contest? Who are you trying to wind up today
dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 16/09/2018 14:47:25
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I would look at each decade to rate the great teams.
1960,s very close but I would rate Down just above the three in a row Galway team.
1970,s Dublin definitely changed the face of football with their style.
1980,s Kerry some of the greatest forwards of all time.
1990,s Down had to get out of the most competitive province before seeing off Meath and Dublin.
2000,s Tyrone overcame two great teams when it mattered in serial clashes with Kerry and Armagh.
2010 Dublin it is different times but their four in a row was a lot more hard earned. They should win five in a row and clinch the title of greatest of all time.
Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 16/09/2018 15:19:29
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Replying To essmac: "Tyrone were gone as a serious team in 09. By 11, they were poor. Current Tyrone team nothing more than good average. Kerry team that beat us in 86 were the greatest team I've seen. Imagine those boys trained to modern standards - no contest" Not sure you can say that Tyrone were a poor team in 11. Their midfield consisted of the Cavanagh brothers. The McMahons, Gormley, Hughes, McGuigan, Jordan, Harte, Donnelly, Penrose all playing. A fine team by any standards. Perhaps not the force of 3-4 years earlier but still an excellent side. The fact is that you'll hear the same nonsense from some quarters until Dublin start losing and that is 'the quality of opposition is/was poor'. What I find amusing is that these teams are built up by the media as great teams until they get mauled by Dublin and then suddenly the're c€ap, Mayo, Galway, Tyrone all tagged as special teams until Dublin roll them over. If Dublin were not in the championship people woukd be praising the high standards and competitiveness of it. Strange indeed.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/09/2018 09:09:38
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Replying To Joxer: "Not sure you can say that Tyrone were a poor team in 11. Their midfield consisted of the Cavanagh brothers. The McMahons, Gormley, Hughes, McGuigan, Jordan, Harte, Donnelly, Penrose all playing. A fine team by any standards. Perhaps not the force of 3-4 years earlier but still an excellent side. The fact is that you'll hear the same nonsense from some quarters until Dublin start losing and that is 'the quality of opposition is/was poor'. What I find amusing is that these teams are built up by the media as great teams until they get mauled by Dublin and then suddenly the're c€ap, Mayo, Galway, Tyrone all tagged as special teams until Dublin roll them over. If Dublin were not in the championship people woukd be praising the high standards and competitiveness of it. Strange indeed." Tyrone were mediocre in 2011 by their own 2008 standard, Dublin aside from the reckoning. Not dublin's fault. I would admit that Donegal beat a good Tyrone team in 2011 - 2015 period, but not a great one.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 17/09/2018 10:03:47
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Replying To Byanthon: "I would look at each decade to rate the great teams.
1960,s very close but I would rate Down just above the three in a row Galway team.
1970,s Dublin definitely changed the face of football with their style.
1980,s Kerry some of the greatest forwards of all time.
1990,s Down had to get out of the most competitive province before seeing off Meath and Dublin.
2000,s Tyrone overcame two great teams when it mattered in serial clashes with Kerry and Armagh.
2010 Dublin it is different times but their four in a row was a lot more hard earned. They should win five in a row and clinch the title of greatest of all time." Down the best team in the 90's ? interesting, Even though Meath got 4 All-Ireland finals in the 90's 90,91 finalist narrowly defeated in both, and wining in 96 and 99, And there is 4 leinsters in there as well.
bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1263 - 17/09/2018 10:20:09
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Replying To Joxer: "Not sure you can say that Tyrone were a poor team in 11. Their midfield consisted of the Cavanagh brothers. The McMahons, Gormley, Hughes, McGuigan, Jordan, Harte, Donnelly, Penrose all playing. A fine team by any standards. Perhaps not the force of 3-4 years earlier but still an excellent side. The fact is that you'll hear the same nonsense from some quarters until Dublin start losing and that is 'the quality of opposition is/was poor'. What I find amusing is that these teams are built up by the media as great teams until they get mauled by Dublin and then suddenly the're c€ap, Mayo, Galway, Tyrone all tagged as special teams until Dublin roll them over. If Dublin were not in the championship people woukd be praising the high standards and competitiveness of it. Strange indeed." Thats it really without Dublin this "era" would be lauded as massively competitive.
Kerry 2011
Donegal 2012
Mayo 2013
Kerry 2014
Kerry 2015
Mayo 16
Mayo 17
Tyrone 18
That pretty much looks like every other decade in GAA history.
Its as competitive as it ever was really and likely more then some eras, Dublin have just raised the bar in terms of the standard and quality not seen in the game before and no one knows what to do.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/09/2018 10:21:20
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Replying To sam1884: "Kerry thought about opening museums, have the most All Irelands and rightly so have been lauded in some quarters as the greatest football county. Whilst it would be impossible for Kerry not to win Sam again soon with all it's underage success, financial assistance and structures 2019 is now a big year. Dublin have the chance to be classed as the best football team ever. Despite all of Kerry's great teams down the years, if this Dublin team can complete the five-in-a-row they will always be seen as the first county to do so and without argument the greatest. Can Kerry stop them?" Hard to compare different eras. Remember a lot of the Kerry team that did the 4 in a row came back and then did a 3 in a row, a 4 in a row and then a 3 in a row all completed in 9 seasons. For me the 5 in a row for Dublin would not conclusively settle the debate. That's not putting this current immense Dublin team down, I have a feeling this debate will seem ridiculous in a few years as I get the feeling Dublin may be moving further ahead if the pack and getting better while their greatest challenger of recent years (Mayo) are probably on the way down. If a team is to step up to challenge them Kerry seem by far the most likely but at the moment are a bit off.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1349 - 17/09/2018 10:42:09
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Replying To TheUsername: "Thats it really without Dublin this "era" would be lauded as massively competitive.
Kerry 2011
Donegal 2012
Mayo 2013
Kerry 2014
Kerry 2015
Mayo 16
Mayo 17
Tyrone 18
That pretty much looks like every other decade in GAA history.
Its as competitive as it ever was really and likely more then some eras, Dublin have just raised the bar in terms of the standard and quality not seen in the game before and no one knows what to do." Spot on. In particular look at the pedigree of the Kerry, Mayo and Donegal teams during this era. I've named the 2011 Kerry team earlier in the thread Gooch, O'Sullivans, Sheehan, buckley, Maher....all in their prime. Weak opposition? Is that 2012-2015 Donegal team the best that they have produced with an almost impenetrable defensive system? Is that Mayo team the best Mayo team of all time? Is it arguably one of the top 5/6 teams of all time? Not sure how anyone can question the quality of opposition and hurdles that Dublin have overcome to dominate in this decade. Is it just coincidence that Dublin start winning and every other county is suddenly very poor?
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/09/2018 20:32:40
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Replying To Joxer: "Spot on. In particular look at the pedigree of the Kerry, Mayo and Donegal teams during this era. I've named the 2011 Kerry team earlier in the thread Gooch, O'Sullivans, Sheehan, buckley, Maher....all in their prime. Weak opposition? Is that 2012-2015 Donegal team the best that they have produced with an almost impenetrable defensive system? Is that Mayo team the best Mayo team of all time? Is it arguably one of the top 5/6 teams of all time? Not sure how anyone can question the quality of opposition and hurdles that Dublin have overcome to dominate in this decade. Is it just coincidence that Dublin start winning and every other county is suddenly very poor?" There was a good level of competition early in the decade but I think Kerry and Donegal both had their best football played after that 2014 final and only Mayo have looked like beating Dublin since. Super team but top 5/6 of all time? Not a hope in hell. They seem to raise it to play their best football in finals yet struggle against really average teams at times. From 1-9 they are unreal but at the risk of sounding harsh I don't think they have a single forward that would be guaranteed a start on the Kerry or Tyrone teams of the 00's, or the current Dublin one for that matter. That's the biggest reason they don't have an All Ireland.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 17/09/2018 22:01:40
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "There was a good level of competition early in the decade but I think Kerry and Donegal both had their best football played after that 2014 final and only Mayo have looked like beating Dublin since. Super team but top 5/6 of all time? Not a hope in hell. They seem to raise it to play their best football in finals yet struggle against really average teams at times. From 1-9 they are unreal but at the risk of sounding harsh I don't think they have a single forward that would be guaranteed a start on the Kerry or Tyrone teams of the 00's, or the current Dublin one for that matter. That's the biggest reason they don't have an All Ireland." Andy Moran? Freeman, Dillon, O'Connor, McLoughlin are no slouches. That Mayo team came within 1 point of toppling the current Dublin team in 3 AI finals playing fantastic football. You don't have to have 5/6 all-star forwards to win Sam. 2/3 is sufficient and Mayo have that. Certainly they are the second best team of this era and looking back over the decades there wouldn't be too many others who could match them IMO.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/09/2018 23:12:31
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "There was a good level of competition early in the decade but I think Kerry and Donegal both had their best football played after that 2014 final and only Mayo have looked like beating Dublin since. Super team but top 5/6 of all time? Not a hope in hell. They seem to raise it to play their best football in finals yet struggle against really average teams at times. From 1-9 they are unreal but at the risk of sounding harsh I don't think they have a single forward that would be guaranteed a start on the Kerry or Tyrone teams of the 00's, or the current Dublin one for that matter. That's the biggest reason they don't have an All Ireland." Think you are reaching here a bit Gerry with all due respect.
It's like making a statement that the Kerry team of the 70s/80s were only successful in their own four in a row because the great Dublin team went into decline and they managed to beat Roscommmon and Offaly (once) and entered a non competitive era.
My own opinion, is behind or without Dublin it pretty much looks par for the course championship standard wise and would have different frequency's of winners without Dublin.
Maybe like the Kerry team from the era I mention above, you just have to acknowledge that this Dublin team have raised the bar and standard so much that no one can or hasn't as yet got near to beating it.
We will all have different opinions of course, perhaps with a tint of bias, hurt or hubris.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/09/2018 00:20:23
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