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Replying To royaldunne: "Also there seems to be a little bit of rose tinted glasses here. If Monaghan were in Leinster would they be as competitive? Are we basing there successes on how they performed against Tyron ? A team I'd argue Meath played better against than Monaghan did . I see comparisons to Kildare and Meath been made (and what I am about to say is in no way to offend any Kildare poster, I'll leave that till Jan until hostilities resume ) but Kildare will be in division two same as Meath next year , Kildare went through a whole callender year without a win in any competition championship obc and league, yes they beat mayo (performance of the year imo) and made super 8s Meath could and should have beat Tyrone apart from a number of factors hitting a free off upright with time just up to put us 2 infront, but then above all experience cost us , that is something you cannot coach 6 times we should have stopped Tyrone equalizing in normal time, we didn't have a graham geraghty type to take the player out in a outfield position get his black card and go into next round, like Tyrone did (ok it was hell lot closer to goal ) but they took the Meath player out of it with push on back , and ref saw it and didn't care. , which is another debate. I would argue that there is little between Kildare Meath and while slightly ahead Monaghan too. We are all playing catch up. Remember this apart from Reilly burke and menton is a extremely young Meath team that will come good, but it has been hit by dubs dominating Leinster (ask por) influx of other people who have nothing but distain for county, players leaving for the reason that they believe there is no point as they can't even hope of a provincial medal (unlike Monaghan) players in county wanting to play for another county , years of under investment in underage structures. And there's the full answer to why Meath aren't competitive, if we were in Connaught or ulster I feel we be as competitive as most same as Kildare would be, as I said things are changing we have won back to back minor Leinster titles and have a good structure in place at moment. Don't write us off yet. Tyrone made that mistake this year and it should have ended their year. Sorry for long post." monaghan won meath didnt.
would they complete in leinster. of course they would. they have beaten kildare laois and carlow in the championship, they beat dublin in the league game in croke park. Would they beat dublin in leinster ? maybe not, but competing and winning aren't the same. Meath may have lost by a point to Tyrone, but they aren't consistently competing yoi can put any amount of fancy bows and glitter and whatever else you want on ONE one point defeat. Meath have been playing in division 2 and even a spell in division 3 .. monaghan have been beating everyone over the last few years in the league with the best 8 teams in the country including dublin
they've won ulster titles and everyone knows the ulster title is the most difficult provincial crown to win. By suggesting you would compete in connaught (you wouldn't by the way you wouldn't get a glove near galway or mayo, MAYBE roscommon aswell) and munster (you wouldn't get near kerry same way you won't get near dublin) is insinuating it's cause of dublin you cany compete....
BS
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 23/08/2018 13:13:19
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Replying To royaldunne: "Also there seems to be a little bit of rose tinted glasses here. If Monaghan were in Leinster would they be as competitive? Are we basing there successes on how they performed against Tyron ? A team I'd argue Meath played better against than Monaghan did . I see comparisons to Kildare and Meath been made (and what I am about to say is in no way to offend any Kildare poster, I'll leave that till Jan until hostilities resume ) but Kildare will be in division two same as Meath next year , Kildare went through a whole callender year without a win in any competition championship obc and league, yes they beat mayo (performance of the year imo) and made super 8s Meath could and should have beat Tyrone apart from a number of factors hitting a free off upright with time just up to put us 2 infront, but then above all experience cost us , that is something you cannot coach 6 times we should have stopped Tyrone equalizing in normal time, we didn't have a graham geraghty type to take the player out in a outfield position get his black card and go into next round, like Tyrone did (ok it was hell lot closer to goal ) but they took the Meath player out of it with push on back , and ref saw it and didn't care. , which is another debate. I would argue that there is little between Kildare Meath and while slightly ahead Monaghan too. We are all playing catch up. Remember this apart from Reilly burke and menton is a extremely young Meath team that will come good, but it has been hit by dubs dominating Leinster (ask por) influx of other people who have nothing but distain for county, players leaving for the reason that they believe there is no point as they can't even hope of a provincial medal (unlike Monaghan) players in county wanting to play for another county , years of under investment in underage structures. And there's the full answer to why Meath aren't competitive, if we were in Connaught or ulster I feel we be as competitive as most same as Kildare would be, as I said things are changing we have won back to back minor Leinster titles and have a good structure in place at moment. Don't write us off yet. Tyrone made that mistake this year and it should have ended their year. Sorry for long post." Kildare and Monaghan are both better than Meath right now and have been consistently for 10 years.
It's 2010 since Meath last made the quarterfinals.
They haven't been in division 1 since the league got restructured in 2008.
It's a sorry state for a Meath fan to be pointing to a narrow defeat to Tyrone to show that you are competitive.
Derry and Cork both brought Mayo to extra time last season.
1 off close games aren't evidence of real progress.
You were in danger of going down from division 2. You lost against Longford in the championship.
You have been off the pace for the last 8 seasons.
You should be angry as hell and demanding better.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 23/08/2018 13:28:52
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Looking at it from a biased view of course, but I do have my two cents on it. There's no doubt that Monaghan are a very good skillful team, with a lot of dedication and know how. I think what works for them is that for the most part, they have kept their team together, with just a few retirements, injuries and such being complemented by a few new players every year. The manager in place for a long time helps with continuity, and the fact that they have McManus too, he's a top forward and brings that little bit extra.
I am jealous of course, as I see no reason why Cavan couldn't be in this position. Both similar size counties, clubs, and playing population (Cavan could even be a little more here). I think the semi final in 2013 was a turning point. Contentious game, which Monaghan won by a point, but could have gone either way. They went on to win Ulster, and their team stayed together, won another in 2015 (again a tight 1 point game with Cavan). This could have been Cavan, we had a dearth of young players coming through, but getting beat early in Ulster and lackluster Qualifier campaigns after 2013 means a lot of those have gone away and become disillusioned with intercounty. Interesting article by Paul Fitzpatrick of the Celt (link here) on the player turnover in Cavan since they won those U21 titles. It's quite ridiculous that any team could sustain that level of turnover and still be competitive. No constant manager either.
Basically, as much as I don't like saying it, fair play to Monaghan. They've kept it together, held on to a great manager, had a little bit of luck go for and against the, and have progressed to the stage that they could easily have made an All Ireland final. Don't see why others can't get to this level either
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 23/08/2018 13:55:14
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Replying To royaldunne: "Also there seems to be a little bit of rose tinted glasses here. If Monaghan were in Leinster would they be as competitive? Are we basing there successes on how they performed against Tyron ? A team I'd argue Meath played better against than Monaghan did . I see comparisons to Kildare and Meath been made (and what I am about to say is in no way to offend any Kildare poster, I'll leave that till Jan until hostilities resume ) but Kildare will be in division two same as Meath next year , Kildare went through a whole callender year without a win in any competition championship obc and league, yes they beat mayo (performance of the year imo) and made super 8s Meath could and should have beat Tyrone apart from a number of factors hitting a free off upright with time just up to put us 2 infront, but then above all experience cost us , that is something you cannot coach 6 times we should have stopped Tyrone equalizing in normal time, we didn't have a graham geraghty type to take the player out in a outfield position get his black card and go into next round, like Tyrone did (ok it was hell lot closer to goal ) but they took the Meath player out of it with push on back , and ref saw it and didn't care. , which is another debate. I would argue that there is little between Kildare Meath and while slightly ahead Monaghan too. We are all playing catch up. Remember this apart from Reilly burke and menton is a extremely young Meath team that will come good, but it has been hit by dubs dominating Leinster (ask por) influx of other people who have nothing but distain for county, players leaving for the reason that they believe there is no point as they can't even hope of a provincial medal (unlike Monaghan) players in county wanting to play for another county , years of under investment in underage structures. And there's the full answer to why Meath aren't competitive, if we were in Connaught or ulster I feel we be as competitive as most same as Kildare would be, as I said things are changing we have won back to back minor Leinster titles and have a good structure in place at moment. Don't write us off yet. Tyrone made that mistake this year and it should have ended their year. Sorry for long post." How many years did you say it would be before Meath will beat Dublin in Leinster senior level under McEntee? Was it two or three years? Want to revise that prediction?
Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 23/08/2018 14:35:19
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Replying To MesAmis: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post." Is Kerry a neighbouring county to Dublin?
Is Donegal a neighbouring county to Dublin?
Is Mayo a neighbouring county to Donegal?
The sons of Dublin people do not want to play for Meath. Talk to anyone involved in underage GAA in Ratoath and Ashbourne and they will tell you the same with defections all over the shop back to Dublin clubs as soon as they reach u14/u16. You think the Brogans would have played for Clare and not Kerry if they had grown up in Clare??
This is the last I'll say on the matter as frankly I don't really care. Intercounty football is dead so you can keep pretending its a competition all ye want if it makes you enjoy Dublin's All Ireland wins. The rest of the country and playing population in ever increasing numbers, don't give a toss either (come back to me when Monaghan get their arses handed to them by Dublin a few more times in "neutral" Croke Park). I'm more interested in club football (where incidentally the nouveau riche Dublin clubs in Meath continue to win fk all)...
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1316 - 23/08/2018 14:35:36
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Replying To Crinigan: " Replying To MesAmis: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post." Is Kerry a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Donegal a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Mayo a neighbouring county to Donegal? The sons of Dublin people do not want to play for Meath. Talk to anyone involved in underage GAA in Ratoath and Ashbourne and they will tell you the same with defections all over the shop back to Dublin clubs as soon as they reach u14/u16. You think the Brogans would have played for Clare and not Kerry if they had grown up in Clare?? This is the last I'll say on the matter as frankly I don't really care. Intercounty football is dead so you can keep pretending its a competition all ye want if it makes you enjoy Dublin's All Ireland wins. The rest of the country and playing population in ever increasing numbers, don't give a toss either (come back to me when Monaghan get their arses handed to them by Dublin a few more times in "neutral" Croke Park). I'm more interested in club football (where incidentally the nouveau riche Dublin clubs in Meath continue to win fk all)..."
if you where to take every dub put of meath, your population would STILL Be significantly higher than that of monaghan before you even take cavan and louth people living in monaghan out of monaghan.
thus
meath even with the dubs, have a bigger pick of players, they've more clubs, undoubtedly more income, I've seen Dunganny, I've also seen monaghans centre of excellence there isn't a huge difference. both really good facilities.
and again... it's not just meath like I've said she few times. Corks role in their 40 point combined fevers to kerry and Tyrone was disgusting... it's meath and cork and teams like that, that are the problem with gaelic football at the minute. You can't but applaud monaghan, donegal, dublin, galway, Tyrone and basically all the division one teams outside of kerry and Dublin for competing.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 23/08/2018 15:00:23
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Replying To Crinigan: " Replying To MesAmis: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post." Is Kerry a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Donegal a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Mayo a neighbouring county to Donegal? The sons of Dublin people do not want to play for Meath. Talk to anyone involved in underage GAA in Ratoath and Ashbourne and they will tell you the same with defections all over the shop back to Dublin clubs as soon as they reach u14/u16. You think the Brogans would have played for Clare and not Kerry if they had grown up in Clare?? This is the last I'll say on the matter as frankly I don't really care. Intercounty football is dead so you can keep pretending its a competition all ye want if it makes you enjoy Dublin's All Ireland wins. The rest of the country and playing population in ever increasing numbers, don't give a toss either (come back to me when Monaghan get their arses handed to them by Dublin a few more times in "neutral" Croke Park). I'm more interested in club football (where incidentally the nouveau riche Dublin clubs in Meath continue to win fk all)..."
so what youre telling me is this...
rich clubs from Dublin with presumably better infrastructure and bigger pools to choose from alot of the time aren't winning anything and thus money doesn't guarantee success ?? but it does in the jntercounty game cause it then excuses how pathetic meath, cork etc are cause they currently aren't winning or competing.
cool thanks for that.
you can go now :)
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 23/08/2018 15:04:31
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Replying To Crinigan: " Replying To MesAmis: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post." Is Kerry a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Donegal a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Mayo a neighbouring county to Donegal? The sons of Dublin people do not want to play for Meath. Talk to anyone involved in underage GAA in Ratoath and Ashbourne and they will tell you the same with defections all over the shop back to Dublin clubs as soon as they reach u14/u16. You think the Brogans would have played for Clare and not Kerry if they had grown up in Clare?? This is the last I'll say on the matter as frankly I don't really care. Intercounty football is dead so you can keep pretending its a competition all ye want if it makes you enjoy Dublin's All Ireland wins. The rest of the country and playing population in ever increasing numbers, don't give a toss either (come back to me when Monaghan get their arses handed to them by Dublin a few more times in "neutral" Croke Park). I'm more interested in club football (where incidentally the nouveau riche Dublin clubs in Meath continue to win fk all)..."
Meath GAA had loadsa extra potential players yet this is seen as a bad thing. You really couldn't make it up.
Plenty of Meath and Kildare people settled in Dublin and their kids grew up supporting and playing for Dublin. What makes Meath so different?
Kerry people settling in Cork and their progeny become Corkonians, the same all over the country. Except apparently, for no actual apparent reason, in Meath! Really laughable stuff when you see people complaining about getting loads of extra players!
Not all the people who've moved to Meath are Dubs is also lost on you, or is it only the Dubs that are the problem ;)
Even if all you said was true, as laughably stupid as your point is, and the non pure blood Meath people all, en masse, refuse to have anything to do with Meath, yous still have the same amount of pure blood Meath men you had when yous were successful. What's the issue there? Mixed marriages probably too blame I suppose.
The level of stupidity in your point really is something to behold. Extra potential players is a good thing man. I genuinely can't believe how you don't understand that, it beggars belief really that you think that it's a bad thing just because you've seen a couple of Dublin jerseys knocking round Ashbourne or something.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 23/08/2018 15:18:37
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Replying To MesAmis: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post." That Colm O'Rourke fella never amounted to much, to be fair...
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 23/08/2018 16:07:26
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The GAA should fund advanced sports science for all teams in the All-Ireland championship.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7827 - 23/08/2018 16:20:32
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Yeah he didn't understand the Meath heritage and tradition that fella................
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 23/08/2018 16:20:49
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Replying To TheUsername: "I do get this argument and i suppose it doesnt help the proximity of Meath to Dublin and urban sprawl etc.
There are a couple of anomalies to it though. Kildare have been relatively successful a couple of years on the road with the same issues, they have got to a League final, Leinster final, qualified for the S8's and won an All Irealnd U20, a couple of years into the development of this generation.
Dublin itself also have a huge population from every other county in the country, name a county and we have people from there living and working and going home at weekends to play club or county football.
Id accept its an issue for Meath but equally it is for Kildare and Dublin and to a grater or lesser extent for counties on the east coast were the economy is strong." Some Dubs are making this point that kildare have made a sucess of population growth recently and Meath havent. This is not reality. The fact is yes this decade has being Meath worst since 1920s one of the worst decades in Meath football history. But it also has being one of the worst decades, periods in the history of kildare football. Only the 1980s has being a worst period for kildare football. kildare were more sucessful in the 1920s, 30s, 40s,50s, 60s, 70s, 90s and 00s then in this decade. In the leinster championship kildare have been the 4th most successful team. Dubs r number 1 of course, Meath are second most successful with 1 leinster title, 4 leinster final appearances, Westmeath are third with 2 leinster final appearances and kildare are 4th most sucessful county in leinster championship in this decade with 1 leinster final appearance. Kildare also havent won in Croker in 6 years and have played in Croker 7 times in 3 years with 7 loses.
Yes kildare did reach super 8 and played in div 1 but in those 10 games kildare v top 8 teams kildare lost those 10 games. Yes kildare defeated Mayo ( but how much of factor was that down to the bounce of Newbridge or Nowhere campaign and Mayo mileage on the legs) and did reach Super 8. But people are ignoring the loses to Carlow, 13 match losing streak etc. Kildare in last 3 years have been a real mixed bag. Its hard to know what to make of them. We are again in the realm of when we are talking about kildare we are talking about what kildare are going to do in the coming years , their potential, rather then talking about their senior sucesses.
Yes kildare have potential. They have haf minor sucess with hree leinster wins..But so do Meath have potential with 2 leinster minor wins and an unprecedented 4 victories over Dublin at minor level in 4 years. But its just potential for both counties .There is no gurantee that eitheir will have certain senior sucess. And their is always a certain hype with kildare which does them no favours whatsoever. The media build them up and when they fail, the media heavily criticise them. This hype doesn't help Kildare's cause whatsoever. Thw real bona fide kildare sucess football story was Under 20s..They won a great All Ireland beating Dublin Kerry and Mayo. It was the first All Ireland win at underage by leinster team outside Dublin in 15 years. Well done. Hopefully that is the building block kildare need. Leinster needs strong opposition to Dublin.. A strong Meath or kildare or Offaly or louth or Westmeath or loais , just one those one counties challenging Dublin wud be great.
But to say kildare are example of county that have been sucessful at senior county level with population growth when this has been the worst decade in kildare football ( along with 1980s) in 100 years and that kildare have been 4th most sucessful county in leinster championship after Dublin Meath and Westmeath respectively
.It is just not based in any sense of factual truth or reality. Hopefully kildare do challenge Dubs in coming years but I wouldn't put my house on it they will. The last two seasons have been a real.mixed bag for kildare. There is potential but in terms of actual proper sucess at senior level there has been little so far. The hype does them no favours whatsoever.
PS Its not just Meath and kildare having their worst decade in generations there r so many strong counties at all time lows
1 Cork are at their lowest since 1950s, outside the top 6 teams in the country for the first time in 50 years, uncompetitive v kerry for first time since 50s, Cork has never been as low in generations
2 Armagh This is Armaghs worst decade since 60s. Armagh havent won match in Ulster championship in years and have spent 3 of the last 4 years in div 3, worst decade since 60s
3 Derry are in div 4. Derry are at their lowest since 60s, worst decade since 60s,
4 Down are in div 3. Down are their lowest since 1950s
5 Laois were in div 4. This is laois worst decade since the 70s
6 Offaly have spent most of this decade in div 3 or 4. This is Offalys worst decade since 1950s.
7 Galway yes Galway if Galway dont reach the All Ireland final next year it will be first decade since 1900s they havent. At the moment this is Galways worst decade since 1920s
Thats an awful lot of great football counties collasping together. Is that a trend or is it coincidential that all these counties Meath kildare Cork Down Derry Armagh Laois Offaly Galway who were allhaving huge sucess 20 years ago or now all together reaching the bottom together. I'd say its a pattern more then coincidence. What happens if Mayo and Monaghan decline and no one takes there place..Then we will have a full blown football crisis.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 23/08/2018 17:15:32
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Replying To legendzxix: "The GAA should fund advanced sports science for all teams in the All-Ireland championship." Are you ignorant backward thick ? Possibly all three , watch back the winning captains speech from Limerick, pause when he gets to the bit about their back ground team , Physio's , statisticians, conditioning coaches , the background team ran to over twenty which is about the norm for ALL counties including your own , I was in Kerry last year as we brought a squad down for an under 17 challenge game , we were treated to fine hospitality and got first hand to see your facilities and people were more than happy to talk about strength and conditioning,were doing nothing different to yourselves, finally my son is involved for last six years since he was 13 with county hurling and football squad I have seen first hand what it takes to attempt to be s success and the cost money and time wise for me and his mum , you epitomize why being entitled to an opinion is dangerous, you come on here and offer Nothing absolutely Nothing, I'd say at best from a sporting context you wouldnt know how to carry the water bottles
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 23/08/2018 18:10:10
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Basically there are those who would say that population growth of counties should reflect an improvement in the GAA standard due to sheer weight of numbers playing the game. But it is not that simple. There are massive assumptions here.
Do the children want to play GAA?
IS is a duel county or a football only county?
Are there other sports that are taking away from the GAA?
Are there inter club rivalries at play in the county?
Are there improvements being made, but they are not good enough improvements when exposed by GAA giants?
Is finance an issue and if money is available, is it being spent in the proper areas?
Are management keeping up with trends, or sticking to methods that just don't work any more?
Is there a good enough emphasis on under age teams in counties?
Are teams making the transition between minor, u20 and senior in an effective way?
Do teams have realistic expectations and commit to a 5 year plan or do they expect gains in 1 or 2 seasons?
The last point is really important for supporters too.
I think that Monaghan have a lot going for them in terms of the above points as they are ticking all the right boxes. I do think that they will eventually get caught as it is most difficult to keep abreast of the chasing pack. For instance, will they win ulster next year? A lot will depend on if they draw tyrone. If they do, I would give them less than 50/50 of winning ulster to an all Ireland or a league win will only do their players or their supporters. If they drew donegal, they would have a better chance but there would still be nothing in the bank as the likelihood is that they would have to meet tyrone in the final. A season like that could burst a team's bubble.
They had a great year this year despite not getting to the final, but they would not be satisfied with a replay of it next season.
They would have to win ulster or the league, or get to the all Ireland final.
Managers come and go and success determines this.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/08/2018 18:52:44
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Replying To waynoI: "monaghan won meath didnt.
would they complete in leinster. of course they would. they have beaten kildare laois and carlow in the championship, they beat dublin in the league game in croke park. Would they beat dublin in leinster ? maybe not, but competing and winning aren't the same. Meath may have lost by a point to Tyrone, but they aren't consistently competing yoi can put any amount of fancy bows and glitter and whatever else you want on ONE one point defeat. Meath have been playing in division 2 and even a spell in division 3 .. monaghan have been beating everyone over the last few years in the league with the best 8 teams in the country including dublin
they've won ulster titles and everyone knows the ulster title is the most difficult provincial crown to win. By suggesting you would compete in connaught (you wouldn't by the way you wouldn't get a glove near galway or mayo, MAYBE roscommon aswell) and munster (you wouldn't get near kerry same way you won't get near dublin) is insinuating it's cause of dublin you cany compete....
BS" Again just to clarify, Meath beat Galway in the league last year. And were 4 points up v Roscommon this year who needed a dubious injury time penalty and free to draw with Meath. Seriously man if you gonna go on a rant have at least some facts correct, btw Meath and Monaghan were in doc 3 the same year.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 19:13:32
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Replying To Dubsfan28: "How many years did you say it would be before Meath will beat Dublin in Leinster senior level under McEntee? Was it two or three years? Want to revise that prediction?" Not at all. I said 3 years. And I'm sticking to it. With Wayne's 3 clubmen on panel next year (Reilly, Brennan, Conlon) the return of a couple of lads from studies, I see no reason why we won't give it a good rattle.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 19:18:08
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Replying To waynoI: " Replying To Crinigan: "[quote=MesAmis: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post." Is Kerry a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Donegal a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Mayo a neighbouring county to Donegal? The sons of Dublin people do not want to play for Meath. Talk to anyone involved in underage GAA in Ratoath and Ashbourne and they will tell you the same with defections all over the shop back to Dublin clubs as soon as they reach u14/u16. You think the Brogans would have played for Clare and not Kerry if they had grown up in Clare?? This is the last I'll say on the matter as frankly I don't really care. Intercounty football is dead so you can keep pretending its a competition all ye want if it makes you enjoy Dublin's All Ireland wins. The rest of the country and playing population in ever increasing numbers, don't give a toss either (come back to me when Monaghan get their arses handed to them by Dublin a few more times in "neutral" Croke Park). I'm more interested in club football (where incidentally the nouveau riche Dublin clubs in Meath continue to win fk all)..."
if you where to take every dub put of meath, your population would STILL Be significantly higher than that of monaghan before you even take cavan and louth people living in monaghan out of monaghan.
thus
meath even with the dubs, have a bigger pick of players, they've more clubs, undoubtedly more income, I've seen Dunganny, I've also seen monaghans centre of excellence there isn't a huge difference. both really good facilities.
and again... it's not just meath like I've said she few times. Corks role in their 40 point combined fevers to kerry and Tyrone was disgusting... it's meath and cork and teams like that, that are the problem with gaelic football at the minute. You can't but applaud monaghan, donegal, dublin, galway, Tyrone and basically all the division one teams outside of kerry and Dublin for competing."]Do you participate in cilles? Serious question, do you go to many of their games? I think that is the point of cringions post. And you are probably a prime example of it. But you see in reality this won't change for a generation.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 19:21:49
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Replying To Furlong1949: "Some Dubs are making this point that kildare have made a sucess of population growth recently and Meath havent. This is not reality. The fact is yes this decade has being Meath worst since 1920s one of the worst decades in Meath football history. But it also has being one of the worst decades, periods in the history of kildare football. Only the 1980s has being a worst period for kildare football. kildare were more sucessful in the 1920s, 30s, 40s,50s, 60s, 70s, 90s and 00s then in this decade. In the leinster championship kildare have been the 4th most successful team. Dubs r number 1 of course, Meath are second most successful with 1 leinster title, 4 leinster final appearances, Westmeath are third with 2 leinster final appearances and kildare are 4th most sucessful county in leinster championship in this decade with 1 leinster final appearance. Kildare also havent won in Croker in 6 years and have played in Croker 7 times in 3 years with 7 loses.
Yes kildare did reach super 8 and played in div 1 but in those 10 games kildare v top 8 teams kildare lost those 10 games. Yes kildare defeated Mayo ( but how much of factor was that down to the bounce of Newbridge or Nowhere campaign and Mayo mileage on the legs) and did reach Super 8. But people are ignoring the loses to Carlow, 13 match losing streak etc. Kildare in last 3 years have been a real mixed bag. Its hard to know what to make of them. We are again in the realm of when we are talking about kildare we are talking about what kildare are going to do in the coming years , their potential, rather then talking about their senior sucesses.
Yes kildare have potential. They have haf minor sucess with hree leinster wins..But so do Meath have potential with 2 leinster minor wins and an unprecedented 4 victories over Dublin at minor level in 4 years. But its just potential for both counties .There is no gurantee that eitheir will have certain senior sucess. And their is always a certain hype with kildare which does them no favours whatsoever. The media build them up and when they fail, the media heavily criticise them. This hype doesn't help Kildare's cause whatsoever. Thw real bona fide kildare sucess football story was Under 20s..They won a great All Ireland beating Dublin Kerry and Mayo. It was the first All Ireland win at underage by leinster team outside Dublin in 15 years. Well done. Hopefully that is the building block kildare need. Leinster needs strong opposition to Dublin.. A strong Meath or kildare or Offaly or louth or Westmeath or loais , just one those one counties challenging Dublin wud be great.
But to say kildare are example of county that have been sucessful at senior county level with population growth when this has been the worst decade in kildare football ( along with 1980s) in 100 years and that kildare have been 4th most sucessful county in leinster championship after Dublin Meath and Westmeath respectively
.It is just not based in any sense of factual truth or reality. Hopefully kildare do challenge Dubs in coming years but I wouldn't put my house on it they will. The last two seasons have been a real.mixed bag for kildare. There is potential but in terms of actual proper sucess at senior level there has been little so far. The hype does them no favours whatsoever.
PS Its not just Meath and kildare having their worst decade in generations there r so many strong counties at all time lows
1 Cork are at their lowest since 1950s, outside the top 6 teams in the country for the first time in 50 years, uncompetitive v kerry for first time since 50s, Cork has never been as low in generations
2 Armagh This is Armaghs worst decade since 60s. Armagh havent won match in Ulster championship in years and have spent 3 of the last 4 years in div 3, worst decade since 60s
3 Derry are in div 4. Derry are at their lowest since 60s, worst decade since 60s,
4 Down are in div 3. Down are their lowest since 1950s
5 Laois were in div 4. This is laois worst decade since the 70s
6 Offaly have spent most of this decade in div 3 or 4. This is Offalys worst decade since 1950s.
7 Galway yes Galway if Galway dont reach the All Ireland final next year it will be first decade since 1900s they havent. At the moment this is Galways worst decade since 1920s
Thats an awful lot of great football counties collasping together. Is that a trend or is it coincidential that all these counties Meath kildare Cork Down Derry Armagh Laois Offaly Galway who were allhaving huge sucess 20 years ago or now all together reaching the bottom together. I'd say its a pattern more then coincidence. What happens if Mayo and Monaghan decline and no one takes there place..Then we will have a full blown football crisis." Excellent post but it doesn't suit the narrative of trying to deflect that dubs are actually destroying football, and that it's now about as interesting as watching paint dry. Look I don't blame them if Meath were in their position I'd be doing the same. The gaa have created a monster and it won't be stopped until every county has equality of opportunity, (not outcome) but opportunity. They can put the fake praise on the Monaghan Kildare Clare tipp of this word, with Meath Kerry cork etc we won't buy it as we know it's deflection pure and simple, again not dubs fault, purely gaa hq.
For first time in half century nearly I am not arsed about watching the final, it's a coronation, the media will try to play it otherwise, the dubs will try to convince themselves and anyone else that it's equal to Kerry's 4 in row , but deep down they know they are a professional team playing against amateurs.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 19:34:21
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Replying To royaldunne: " Replying To waynoI: "[quote=Crinigan: "[quote=MesAmis: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post." Is Kerry a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Donegal a neighbouring county to Dublin? Is Mayo a neighbouring county to Donegal? The sons of Dublin people do not want to play for Meath. Talk to anyone involved in underage GAA in Ratoath and Ashbourne and they will tell you the same with defections all over the shop back to Dublin clubs as soon as they reach u14/u16. You think the Brogans would have played for Clare and not Kerry if they had grown up in Clare?? This is the last I'll say on the matter as frankly I don't really care. Intercounty football is dead so you can keep pretending its a competition all ye want if it makes you enjoy Dublin's All Ireland wins. The rest of the country and playing population in ever increasing numbers, don't give a toss either (come back to me when Monaghan get their arses handed to them by Dublin a few more times in "neutral" Croke Park). I'm more interested in club football (where incidentally the nouveau riche Dublin clubs in Meath continue to win fk all)..."
if you where to take every dub put of meath, your population would STILL Be significantly higher than that of monaghan before you even take cavan and louth people living in monaghan out of monaghan.
thus
meath even with the dubs, have a bigger pick of players, they've more clubs, undoubtedly more income, I've seen Dunganny, I've also seen monaghans centre of excellence there isn't a huge difference. both really good facilities.
and again... it's not just meath like I've said she few times. Corks role in their 40 point combined fevers to kerry and Tyrone was disgusting... it's meath and cork and teams like that, that are the problem with gaelic football at the minute. You can't but applaud monaghan, donegal, dublin, galway, Tyrone and basically all the division one teams outside of kerry and Dublin for competing."]Do you participate in cilles? Serious question, do you go to many of their games? I think that is the point of cringions post. And you are probably a prime example of it. But you see in reality this won't change for a generation."]I've never gone to a cilles game, I've never participated with the cilles.
Now before you turn it round and say that I'm the reason why Meath are doing bad read the following... I might not, but I know 110% fact that there are MANY, a hell of a lot of players and coaches who play/coach at all levels down at the cilles who are Dublin fans but ARE INVOLVED QUITE HEAVILY in the club. As I've already mentioned, a young girl and her dad will be watching the all Ireland final from the hill next weekend supporting Dublin, and she will be wearing and playing in the Meath jersey in the days after it. I also know another girl who plays for the senior ladies cilles team who went to the Roscommon game a few weeks ago, again on the hill, supporting Dublin and there are at least two, maybe three that I can think off hand but won't name of the senior men's team who play for the cilles get support Dublin religiously......
Your point is nonsense RD. what I will say is that if your fellow countymen had an ounce of your passion for the royal as you do and optimism, then you'd be competing against Dublin for leinsters and if people like you have that passion despite Meath being muck in recent times and Dublin winning all in sight, then others can too.
And I'm not going to say it again ... it's NOT just Meath, you and your fellow county men are making this a Monaghan v Meath thing, and bringing Dublin into it.... there are many more counties who I feel are underachieving and should be doing better and have, little or no excuse
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 23/08/2018 19:58:08
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Sports science is key to rural counties closing the gap in on the province. They will require funding from the GAA to implement the advanced sports science required.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7827 - 23/08/2018 20:56:59
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