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Love these debates, file under teams knocked out of the championship with to much time.
Just to establish some facts.
20% of the population? Of the 1.3 million people in Dublin 39k are registered to a GAA club. Advantage. No.
Finance? : Below is the games development funding ratio per head of population for 2018. Advantage, no.
Population of Dublin: 1.345 million, Games Development Funding: 1.298 million, Ratio per head of population: 96 cent
Population of Kerry: 140.600k, Games Development Funding 197.600k, Ratio per head of population: 1.40 euro.
Population of Mayo: 130k, Games Devlopment Funding: 127.98k, Ratio per head of population: 98 cent.
Population of Donegal: 158k, Games Devlopment Funding: 132.000K Ratio per head of population: 83 cent.
Population of Galway: 258,552, Games Development Funding: 178.400k Ratio per head of Population: 69 cent.
Population of Tyrone: 177.986k, Games Developmet Funding: 119k, Ratio per head of population: 66 cent.
Population of Monghan: 60,483k Games Devlopment Funding: 122.500k, Ratio per head of population: 1.99 euro.
Population of Cork: 542,196k, Games Development Funding: 249k, Ratio per head of population: 45 cent.
Population of Kildare: 222,130, Games Developemnt Funding: 226.428k, Ratio per head of population: 1 euro.
Population of Meath: 194,942, Games Development Funding: 267.421k, Ratio per head of population: 1.37 euro.
* Note the above doesn't include provincal coaching grants given by the provincal council to every county except Dublin.
Absolultly zero evidence to support splitting Dublin. Simply put many counties are failing and failing badly to be competitive on their resources and population.
It would appear to me on the above there is more scope for counties to improve based on resources or their own population, then the need to handicap success.
Many talk about population and finance as Dublin advantages, clearly above this illustrates this isn't the case.
My sources re above are from the last census, 2017 GAA accounts and Shane Manganese research per registered player, often cited by Ewen McKenna. ;)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/08/2018 18:49:29
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Replying To legendzxix: "Noone's looking to exclude Dublin. Dublin have brought the game to a new level of fitness and quite rightly are making full use of resources at their disposal.
The Railway Cup is the only competition to provide Dublin a fair level of competition. Dublin assuming the role of a province is just a natural development. It's a matter of rolling with it and working on the advantages that can bring for the game.
6 Nations Rugby gets great coverage and is a great competition.
A 5 team Railway Cup in the round robin format similar to the hurling provincial championships can bring the game to a whole new level." It's an unlikely scenario as the railway cup is redundant at this stage. Dublin are a team and very used to eachother and temporary railway cup teams wouldn't do well against a well oiled machine.
FOB (Dublin) - Posts: 912 - 18/08/2018 19:42:58
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Replying To FOB: "It's an unlikely scenario as the railway cup is redundant at this stage. Dublin are a team and very used to eachother and temporary railway cup teams wouldn't do well against a well oiled machine." I'm not on about some ramshackle competition. A proper Railway Cup reflecting it's natural higher status with proper funding, backing and financial incentives can bring the game to a new level.
The GAA season would have to be aligned so that there is exclusive focus on the Railway Cup taking centre stage for a few months of the year.
If both codes had the Railway Cup in 5 team round robin format with each code playing every second weekend, the Railway Cup would take centre stage for 3 months of the year.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 18/08/2018 20:15:42
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Replying To TheUsername: "Love these debates, file under teams knocked out of the championship with to much time.
Just to establish some facts.
20% of the population? Of the 1.3 million people in Dublin 39k are registered to a GAA club. Advantage. No.
Finance? : Below is the games development funding ratio per head of population for 2018. Advantage, no.
Population of Dublin: 1.345 million, Games Development Funding: 1.298 million, Ratio per head of population: 96 cent
Population of Kerry: 140.600k, Games Development Funding 197.600k, Ratio per head of population: 1.40 euro.
Population of Mayo: 130k, Games Devlopment Funding: 127.98k, Ratio per head of population: 98 cent.
Population of Donegal: 158k, Games Devlopment Funding: 132.000K Ratio per head of population: 83 cent.
Population of Galway: 258,552, Games Development Funding: 178.400k Ratio per head of Population: 69 cent.
Population of Tyrone: 177.986k, Games Developmet Funding: 119k, Ratio per head of population: 66 cent.
Population of Monghan: 60,483k Games Devlopment Funding: 122.500k, Ratio per head of population: 1.99 euro.
Population of Cork: 542,196k, Games Development Funding: 249k, Ratio per head of population: 45 cent.
Population of Kildare: 222,130, Games Developemnt Funding: 226.428k, Ratio per head of population: 1 euro.
Population of Meath: 194,942, Games Development Funding: 267.421k, Ratio per head of population: 1.37 euro.
* Note the above doesn't include provincal coaching grants given by the provincal council to every county except Dublin.
Absolultly zero evidence to support splitting Dublin. Simply put many counties are failing and failing badly to be competitive on their resources and population.
It would appear to me on the above there is more scope for counties to improve based on resources or their own population, then the need to handicap success.
Many talk about population and finance as Dublin advantages, clearly above this illustrates this isn't the case.
My sources re above are from the last census, 2017 GAA accounts and Shane Manganese research per registered player, often cited by Ewen McKenna. ;)" The problem is on hand your quoting actual population and then on another registered players.
For example to break it down on registered gaa players and funding per registered gaa player it's doesnt look so rosy.
An example being as recent as 2016 when the amount of funding for every registered gaa player in Dublin was equivalent to €274.70 per player with the closest being Fermanagh at €68 per registered players.
I think that does equate to an advantage personally, the thing with gaa registered players and population is whilst many players live in Dublin they remain loyal and registered to their counties and clubs, in my small rural club alone we have 5 players living in Dublin therefore listed as part of that population but are regulated with our club and this is a club over 1.5 hours away from Dublin, I know th same equates throughout the country, the population funding argument funds that player in money to Dublin GAA when he is t even part of the local club.
But your right, the idea of funding Dublin is a nonsense idea, doesn't bear even thinking discussing imho. I mean split Dublin and you end up with double the current problem with even more funding going to support both teams.
The amount of funding Dublin receives however does need to seriously reviewed and all other counties need to use Dublin as a template and be helped through funding to bridge the gap, if funding makes no difference why keep doing it, who do Dublin fight so hard to keep what they have? And to be fair to every ordinary Dublin fan I know personally they agree wholeheartedly with that.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1338 - 18/08/2018 20:31:15
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Replying To tearintom: "The problem is on hand your quoting actual population and then on another registered players.
For example to break it down on registered gaa players and funding per registered gaa player it's doesnt look so rosy.
An example being as recent as 2016 when the amount of funding for every registered gaa player in Dublin was equivalent to €274.70 per player with the closest being Fermanagh at €68 per registered players.
I think that does equate to an advantage personally, the thing with gaa registered players and population is whilst many players live in Dublin they remain loyal and registered to their counties and clubs, in my small rural club alone we have 5 players living in Dublin therefore listed as part of that population but are regulated with our club and this is a club over 1.5 hours away from Dublin, I know th same equates throughout the country, the population funding argument funds that player in money to Dublin GAA when he is t even part of the local club.
But your right, the idea of funding Dublin is a nonsense idea, doesn't bear even thinking discussing imho. I mean split Dublin and you end up with double the current problem with even more funding going to support both teams.
The amount of funding Dublin receives however does need to seriously reviewed and all other counties need to use Dublin as a template and be helped through funding to bridge the gap, if funding makes no difference why keep doing it, who do Dublin fight so hard to keep what they have? And to be fair to every ordinary Dublin fan I know personally they agree wholeheartedly with that." I've seen this premise before, it's actually undermining of its own arguement.
There was never a greater .
I presume you know that games development funding isn't distributed to already registered players, it's distrbuted to strategies to attract players to Gailc games. If you google Dublin's Blue Wave plan it has a break down of what the games development money is used for.
Truth be told the registered player arguement highlights why Dublin require the level of games development funding to attract people to Galiec games
For example, there are 1.3 million people in Dublin only 39k are registered to the GAA. That is massively poor and illustrates the reason for the investment rather then.
So not quite the massive population advantage or the financial advantage many are hinting at, like I illustrate above Kerry are actually far better funded then Dublin. (That's even before Provincal grants).
Dublin actually only take 200k from central funds annually so actually there is an equity in the funding.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/08/2018 21:37:11
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Replying To tearintom: "The problem is on hand your quoting actual population and then on another registered players.
For example to break it down on registered gaa players and funding per registered gaa player it's doesnt look so rosy.
An example being as recent as 2016 when the amount of funding for every registered gaa player in Dublin was equivalent to €274.70 per player with the closest being Fermanagh at €68 per registered players.
I think that does equate to an advantage personally, the thing with gaa registered players and population is whilst many players live in Dublin they remain loyal and registered to their counties and clubs, in my small rural club alone we have 5 players living in Dublin therefore listed as part of that population but are regulated with our club and this is a club over 1.5 hours away from Dublin, I know th same equates throughout the country, the population funding argument funds that player in money to Dublin GAA when he is t even part of the local club.
But your right, the idea of funding Dublin is a nonsense idea, doesn't bear even thinking discussing imho. I mean split Dublin and you end up with double the current problem with even more funding going to support both teams.
The amount of funding Dublin receives however does need to seriously reviewed and all other counties need to use Dublin as a template and be helped through funding to bridge the gap, if funding makes no difference why keep doing it, who do Dublin fight so hard to keep what they have? And to be fair to every ordinary Dublin fan I know personally they agree wholeheartedly with that." the per-registered-player funding stat is a red herring though, always has been a red herring. It looks sensational, but all it highlights is the the Games Development Officers in Dublin (where a massive wedge of the Games Development funding goes towards) still have a lot of work to in translating the work they do in schools into player numbers. 39k is not enough.
Ewan Mackenna and his ilk like to drop the figure in and leave it without any true context or explanation as to where the funding goes. It's left to people to imagine Ivan Drago-type training installations at the beck and call of Dublin senior players, when in actual fact it's a cohort of GDOs sweeping schools in their catchment areas, introducing kids to gaelic games, getting them down to the club and bedding them in.
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 18/08/2018 22:03:02
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Replying To legendzxix: "I'm not on about some ramshackle competition. A proper Railway Cup reflecting it's natural higher status with proper funding, backing and financial incentives can bring the game to a new level.
The GAA season would have to be aligned so that there is exclusive focus on the Railway Cup taking centre stage for a few months of the year.
If both codes had the Railway Cup in 5 team round robin format with each code playing every second weekend, the Railway Cup would take centre stage for 3 months of the year." You go ahead and set that up so. Before you do that look up the word Dodo. It's less extinct than the Railway Cup.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 18/08/2018 22:23:01
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Replying To tearintom: "I'm not advocating anything simply laying out facts.
Earlier this year did 11 gaa clubs receive the maximum of 150k with 10pf those from Dublin, yes they did, plain and simply. So clubs getting money to spend will have no relevance at all to maybe improving the lot of that club?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-cracks-are-appearing-in-the-dublin-gaa-model-and-its-time-to-ask-if-their-house-really-is-in-order-37223231.html" If you are citing Ewan McKenna as a source then any notion of objectivity in the article is gone. Simply put he hates all things Dublin and every second article he writes is having a cut at them. Can't really blame him because journalism has been reduced to clickbait, and anything with Dublin in the title for him will attract clicks and likes and whatever else counts in this day and age. However, i pine for the day when journalists could actually write about games or counties or the people in our games without having to sensationalise everything in the hope of attracting attention. It makes me wonder would the likes of Con Houlihan even survive as a journalist now when a soundbite outweighs an actual ability to write.
AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 18/08/2018 22:48:20
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Replying To legendzxix: "The Railway Cup is a higher level of competition. Dublin being rehoused there brings natural bragging rights for whoever is top dog at that level.
The Munster hurling championship was a strong 5 county round robin.
The Railway Cup can be a strong 5 team inter-provincial round robin.
Natural and respectful changes can come about over time." Quick question for you. Presumably under your new world order when Dublin is a province you will be advocating that the Dublin club champions will be entering the all Ireland series at the quarter final stage every year.
AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 18/08/2018 22:53:33
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Replying To TheUsername: "Love these debates, file under teams knocked out of the championship with to much time.
Just to establish some facts.
20% of the population? Of the 1.3 million people in Dublin 39k are registered to a GAA club. Advantage. No.
Finance? : Below is the games development funding ratio per head of population for 2018. Advantage, no.
Population of Dublin: 1.345 million, Games Development Funding: 1.298 million, Ratio per head of population: 96 cent
Population of Kerry: 140.600k, Games Development Funding 197.600k, Ratio per head of population: 1.40 euro.
Population of Mayo: 130k, Games Devlopment Funding: 127.98k, Ratio per head of population: 98 cent.
Population of Donegal: 158k, Games Devlopment Funding: 132.000K Ratio per head of population: 83 cent.
Population of Galway: 258,552, Games Development Funding: 178.400k Ratio per head of Population: 69 cent.
Population of Tyrone: 177.986k, Games Developmet Funding: 119k, Ratio per head of population: 66 cent.
Population of Monghan: 60,483k Games Devlopment Funding: 122.500k, Ratio per head of population: 1.99 euro.
Population of Cork: 542,196k, Games Development Funding: 249k, Ratio per head of population: 45 cent.
Population of Kildare: 222,130, Games Developemnt Funding: 226.428k, Ratio per head of population: 1 euro.
Population of Meath: 194,942, Games Development Funding: 267.421k, Ratio per head of population: 1.37 euro.
* Note the above doesn't include provincal coaching grants given by the provincal council to every county except Dublin.
Absolultly zero evidence to support splitting Dublin. Simply put many counties are failing and failing badly to be competitive on their resources and population.
It would appear to me on the above there is more scope for counties to improve based on resources or their own population, then the need to handicap success.
Many talk about population and finance as Dublin advantages, clearly above this illustrates this isn't the case.
My sources re above are from the last census, 2017 GAA accounts and Shane Manganese research per registered player, often cited by Ewen McKenna. ;)" Wow look at those Kerry figures. So it's ok to use the population excuse to beat Dublin up with the "advantage" line but when the tables are turned and the population numbers are used to detail funding distribution, it should now be discounted apparently. Funding benchmarking should now be based on registered players seemingly. Yiz can't have it every way lads. What are Kerry, a single code county, doing with all of that funding?
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 19/08/2018 00:14:15
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Finally someone talking sense a railway cup type competition, the demand has been huge finally the power that be can't ignore the people the long awaited competition may happen rejoice , or is it a boy in a bedroom with to much access to a computer, which seems most probable, let you decided
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/08/2018 01:41:39
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Replying To Joxer: "Wow look at those Kerry figures. So it's ok to use the population excuse to beat Dublin up with the "advantage" line but when the tables are turned and the population numbers are used to detail funding distribution, it should now be discounted apparently. Funding benchmarking should now be based on registered players seemingly. Yiz can't have it every way lads. What are Kerry, a single code county, doing with all of that funding?" Exactly, but the registered player argument actually underlines why Dublin need a huge amount of games development investment.
If you divide Dublins game development funding into registered players its huge, but as we know games development funding isnt distributed to registered players, it goes toward attracting players to Gaelic games.
If Dublin have 39k registered players out of a population of 1.3 million, it highlights and justifies the burning need for the GAA to invest in Dublin or risk loosing the capital.
The level of that invested per head of population actually lower then many counties.
So in essence the population and financial advantage many present Dublin having just doesn't exist.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 19/08/2018 10:33:28
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Replying To AHP: "If you are citing Ewan McKenna as a source then any notion of objectivity in the article is gone. Simply put he hates all things Dublin and every second article he writes is having a cut at them. Can't really blame him because journalism has been reduced to clickbait, and anything with Dublin in the title for him will attract clicks and likes and whatever else counts in this day and age. However, i pine for the day when journalists could actually write about games or counties or the people in our games without having to sensationalise everything in the hope of attracting attention. It makes me wonder would the likes of Con Houlihan even survive as a journalist now when a soundbite outweighs an actual ability to write." I'm not citing the opinion of Ewan in what I am stating as his opinion on everything is not something I agree with all the time.
What I'm citing is the facts as laid out which I have done previously.
The facts are the level of funding Dublin receive coupled with the ability to attract higher sponsorship than everyone else is unfair and is something that needs to be seriously looked at and leveled out.
I've also been consistent in my iteration that this is not a problem of Dublin's making and is not a problem that Dublin can or should be expected to rectify.
It's a gaa hq problem.
It's funny but the vast majority of Dublin fans I know personally are off 2 opinion, 1 being yes the amount of funding is unfair but it isn't their problem, they are only using what's being given to them and using it very well and 2 it's not their to ensure fairness, it's their job to win.
Both points I totally agree with.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1338 - 19/08/2018 10:43:52
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Replying To TheUsername: "Exactly, but the registered player argument actually underlines why Dublin need a huge amount of games development investment.
If you divide Dublins game development funding into registered players its huge, but as we know games development funding isnt distributed to registered players, it goes toward attracting players to Gaelic games.
If Dublin have 39k registered players out of a population of 1.3 million, it highlights and justifies the burning need for the GAA to invest in Dublin or risk loosing the capital.
The level of that invested per head of population actually lower then many counties.
So in essence the population and financial advantage many present Dublin having just doesn't exist." That's exactly my point. The level of investment provided, to develop from the target populatin, is actually lower than some counties, Kerry included. That's the end of the games development funding debate anyway.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 19/08/2018 12:35:39
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Replying To AHP: "Quick question for you. Presumably under your new world order when Dublin is a province you will be advocating that the Dublin club champions will be entering the all Ireland series at the quarter final stage every year." There would have to be a rotation for the 2 out of 5 provinces that will have their provincial club champions playing in the All-Ireland quarter-final.
The Dublin Inter-County Provincial Championship of 4 county boards, however that is agreed, should complete it's Metropolitan appeal by including London and New York due to the convenience of Dublin airport.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 19/08/2018 14:08:09
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Harry Potter and the Rejuvenated Railway Cup
- a charming fantasy fiction adventure with appeal to the very, very young or the very, very lazy
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 19/08/2018 14:28:14
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Replying To legendzxix: "There would have to be a rotation for the 2 out of 5 provinces that will have their provincial club champions playing in the All-Ireland quarter-final.
The Dublin Inter-County Provincial Championship of 4 county boards, however that is agreed, should complete it's Metropolitan appeal by including London and New York due to the convenience of Dublin airport." To quote the younger generation, LOL
AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 19/08/2018 15:49:29
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Wow what a brilliant idea, the crowds would be huge!!
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 20/08/2018 03:36:51
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"Yerra, shur our massive population and the funding we get from the GAA and sponsors, 'tis nearly a disadvantage if anything..." Oh my God, Dublin are morphing into Kerry.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 20/08/2018 05:28:31
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Replying To TheUsername: "Exactly, but the registered player argument actually underlines why Dublin need a huge amount of games development investment.
If you divide Dublins game development funding into registered players its huge, but as we know games development funding isnt distributed to registered players, it goes toward attracting players to Gaelic games.
If Dublin have 39k registered players out of a population of 1.3 million, it highlights and justifies the burning need for the GAA to invest in Dublin or risk loosing the capital.
The level of that invested per head of population actually lower then many counties.
So in essence the population and financial advantage many present Dublin having just doesn't exist." No the registered players argument underlines where is all this money going?
Its been said many times on here that there has to be a viable working plan in place before money is just thrown at projects, there is a lot of money being thrown at Dublin to develop the game yet 40% of the funding goes to County teams.
Where is all the other money going, is it being used properly? Should there be a review of where the funding is going or just keep throwing more money?
Between 2011 and 2015 Dublin grew its registered players number by 43%.
However Dublin got 22 times the games development money of Kildare who grew 29 per cent; they got 29 times the money of Donegal who grew 31 per cent; they got 19 times the money of Meath who grew 32 per cent; they got 30 times the money of Monaghan who grew 36 per cent; they got 24 times the money of Louth who grew 37 per cent; they got 22 times the money of Limerick who grew 42 per cent
On a national level 17.5% of registered player growth was in Dublin yet they received 42% of total funding and this is with an all conquering county team to help?
Like i said the amount of funding that Dublin receives needs to be seriously looked at, that doesnt or shouldnt take away from whats happening with the current Dublin team, it should be set aside from that, a totally different matter, a team that was coming irregardless of funding.
At the very least how its being spent needs reviewing
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1338 - 20/08/2018 10:44:06
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