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Replying To legendzxix: "I was living in Dublin in 2001 when the split was first suggested. The Evening Herald had the map of Dublin split north and south with the likely makeup of both teams. I agreed with the split then and I agree with it now.
The Railway Cup should be a higher level of competition. Dublin in all fairness has become a province. It's a fair discussion to be had.
There are 3 county councils in Dublin. The capital city could probably field one team or north and south teams. That would be 4 or 5 teams entering the inter county championship with Dublin entering the Railway Cup.
The athleticism of Dublin is incredible. Someone from a sports science background might go more into detail on that. The Railway Cup is the only option really to provide a fair level of competition for that." Just split Dublin for senior competitions? They haven't done great at minor recently. Or maybe they have players that can be relied upon at senior level more than any other county. For me the old splitting Dublin in 2 line is just self pity from the rest. Dublin are a county competing in the intercounty championship. The Railway Cup was a good competition. I saw some great games in Parnell Park but there was little or no interest in it in the end. But Dublin is a county in the province of Leinster.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 17/08/2018 10:44:28
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Replying To Joxer: "The population of Cork is about 550,000, probably more Cork people living in Cork than Dublin people living in Dublin in actual fact. There are more GAA clubs in Cork than Dublin also. It is also much larger in size, more akin to a province actually. They wave the white flag at Kerry in football as the Kingdom waltz by into the quarter finals of the AI every year. Can you layout your criteria for those counties that need to be split perhaps? Your endless meanderings on the subject might begin to make more sense then." You're fully right to ask what criteria should be used for a split. Dublin is made up of the capital city council and 3 county councils. If an area can have 4 Regions like that, it's time to consider a split and enter the combined entity into the Railway Cup.
The Railway Cup is the route for a higher level of competition in both codes.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7855 - 17/08/2018 10:55:34
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Replying To legendzxix: "You're fully right to ask what criteria should be used for a split. Dublin is made up of the capital city council and 3 county councils. If an area can have 4 Regions like that, it's time to consider a split and enter the combined entity into the Railway Cup.
The Railway Cup is the route for a higher level of competition in both codes." Apart from Kerry where is the appetite for this split? Certainly not Dublin ,you go into political demographics but your case has more holes than a second hand dartboard , you fail consistently to answer where the buck stops on splitting, there are large counties and small counties you would have no issue with Leitrim Longford playing cork or Galway , you don't question the amount of clubs in each county , you have been spouting an uneducated load of nonsense for along time now , your an embarrassment
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/08/2018 11:27:59
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Ah Jez !!!
Are we back to splitting Dublin again !
They have set the standard and it's up to the rest to follow. Mayo came dam close a few times. Are you saying that if they had more money they would have won it ?
Other counties have to look internally to see what can be done. There is a serious lack of commitment to the county panel in my own county. The county board are sending out a questionable to past player to understand why they dropped off.
A lot of it I imagine is time commitment especially those with young families and trying to juggle work and family life.
This Dublin team won't be around forever and soon we will be looking for a new county to split in two !!
StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 17/08/2018 11:28:34
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Replying To legendzxix: "You're fully right to ask what criteria should be used for a split. Dublin is made up of the capital city council and 3 county councils. If an area can have 4 Regions like that, it's time to consider a split and enter the combined entity into the Railway Cup.
The Railway Cup is the route for a higher level of competition in both codes." I can't follow one iota of the logic to your post:
- You want a split of Dublin based on the administrative areas for the local governance of the county? You do know that this would create a severe imbalance in the distribution of GAA resources in the county as the clubs are not evenly spread within county council areas?
- How can your logic be that if an area has 4 county councils, it should be split? This makes absolutely no sense in relation to any argument regarding the GAA, which is completely independent of the county councils. Why not, arbitrarily, split it by voting constituency? At least then you'd have a reasonably consistent population base in each area.
- The Railway Cup doesn't exist. A hybrid version of it last took place in 2016 with a very low turnout in terms of player participation, fan participation / interest, media interest or prestige for winning it. I'd imagine several posters would have to Google who the current champions are. It is also logistically very difficult to get a provincial team together for training etc. I would argue there is no merit in pursuing this option, other than a series of, effectively, friendly matches, which is completely at odds with your assertion that "The Railway Cup is the route for a higher level of competition in both codes"
- On the "both codes" aspect of your post - I haven't heard a single poster / fan / journalist / analyst / etc. looking for pursuing hurling in a Railway Cup format. That makes no sense and I've no idea why you would suggest it
- Similarly, I haven't heard of anyone looking to split Dublin for hurling purposes. Dublin have made reasonable strides in hurling over the last 10-15 years at senior and underage but would not be consistently near the top table in any grade. If you split Dublin GAA for football purposes, you'd be splitting the Dublin GAA Council, which would mean you'd have to split hurling, camogie and ladies football. I would argue the appetite for this among all GAA fans / administrators / players is practically zero.
Your argument appears to me like voting for Brexit - you've focussed on one aspect without having any idea of how to actually implement it or the ramifications of it getting through.
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 17/08/2018 11:50:08
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "I can't follow one iota of the logic to your post:
- You want a split of Dublin based on the administrative areas for the local governance of the county? You do know that this would create a severe imbalance in the distribution of GAA resources in the county as the clubs are not evenly spread within county council areas?
- How can your logic be that if an area has 4 county councils, it should be split? This makes absolutely no sense in relation to any argument regarding the GAA, which is completely independent of the county councils. Why not, arbitrarily, split it by voting constituency? At least then you'd have a reasonably consistent population base in each area.
- The Railway Cup doesn't exist. A hybrid version of it last took place in 2016 with a very low turnout in terms of player participation, fan participation / interest, media interest or prestige for winning it. I'd imagine several posters would have to Google who the current champions are. It is also logistically very difficult to get a provincial team together for training etc. I would argue there is no merit in pursuing this option, other than a series of, effectively, friendly matches, which is completely at odds with your assertion that "The Railway Cup is the route for a higher level of competition in both codes"
- On the "both codes" aspect of your post - I haven't heard a single poster / fan / journalist / analyst / etc. looking for pursuing hurling in a Railway Cup format. That makes no sense and I've no idea why you would suggest it
- Similarly, I haven't heard of anyone looking to split Dublin for hurling purposes. Dublin have made reasonable strides in hurling over the last 10-15 years at senior and underage but would not be consistently near the top table in any grade. If you split Dublin GAA for football purposes, you'd be splitting the Dublin GAA Council, which would mean you'd have to split hurling, camogie and ladies football. I would argue the appetite for this among all GAA fans / administrators / players is practically zero.
Your argument appears to me like voting for Brexit - you've focussed on one aspect without having any idea of how to actually implement it or the ramifications of it getting through." Very well said.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 17/08/2018 12:05:08
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Splitting Dublin is a stupid idea.
Simply put though the amount of fudning Dublin gets compared to the rest needs to be seriously re-examined. That's a start and one that should be easily enough implemented. I mean earlier this year we had the sports government capital grants and 11 gaa clubs received the maximum of €150k with 10 of those be8ng Dublin clubs.
When you look at what other counties need to fundraiser to try and compete compared to Dublin it doesn't add up, in 2016 alone the amount that Dublin had for fundraising was €57k compared to what others need to do.
Take mayo in 2016 who in truth spent over €100k more than Dublin, yet had costs of €580k in reavelling alone whilst €447k was catering whilst Dublin have their own official food partner.
Dublin are in a great place and the fact is that none of the financial inequality is of their making, this is a GAA hq problem and GAA hq need to rectify it.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1338 - 17/08/2018 12:48:18
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Replying To tearintom: "Splitting Dublin is a stupid idea.
Simply put though the amount of fudning Dublin gets compared to the rest needs to be seriously re-examined. That's a start and one that should be easily enough implemented. I mean earlier this year we had the sports government capital grants and 11 gaa clubs received the maximum of €150k with 10 of those be8ng Dublin clubs.
When you look at what other counties need to fundraiser to try and compete compared to Dublin it doesn't add up, in 2016 alone the amount that Dublin had for fundraising was €57k compared to what others need to do.
Take mayo in 2016 who in truth spent over €100k more than Dublin, yet had costs of €580k in reavelling alone whilst €447k was catering whilst Dublin have their own official food partner.
Dublin are in a great place and the fact is that none of the financial inequality is of their making, this is a GAA hq problem and GAA hq need to rectify it." No issues with looking and funding and fair distribution, but leave our identity out of it, one Dublin only , one Dublin allways
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/08/2018 13:25:05
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Simple answer - none of the other teams are good enough to beat Dublin. Or, in the case of most counties' teams, even to give them a decent game. Dublin are now so hard to beat that we more or less know the result before any game involving Dublin is played. It's not quite as bad as a 100 metres final involving Usain Bolt and a bunch of dart players, but you get the idea. Sport thrives on unpredictability of outcome. Take that away, and much of the interest goes with it. People are keen to go to matches - they're just not that keen on going to mis-matches.
None of this is Dublin's fault, of course. This Dublin team has an excellent panel, a smart manager, a sophisticated understanding of match strategy and a 100% competitive mentality. Time for the other counties to up their game instead of looking for excuses.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 17/08/2018 13:57:54
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Replying To legendzxix: "You're fully right to ask what criteria should be used for a split. Dublin is made up of the capital city council and 3 county councils. If an area can have 4 Regions like that, it's time to consider a split and enter the combined entity into the Railway Cup.
The Railway Cup is the route for a higher level of competition in both codes." Ah I see. So you want to split counties based on local government adminstrative authorities, councils. Well Galway have two, county and city, and so do Cork. Split Dublin into four councils as you say. That gives us five more teams right there. What's your masterplan for the teams of the six counties? Is there 11 councils in NI??? Not sure but by Jayzis if there is then there's another 5 teams for ye right there. There'll be more splits than an Olympic gymnastic floor event the way you're going. Just take note, council workers by their nature don't like strenuous work and they're heavily unionised. I see the GPA playing a big role in this new football blueprint of yours. Those lads won't be down on Dollyer running up and down the dunes at 5am in Feb!!!
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 17/08/2018 18:45:55
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Ciaran Whelan thinks the poor attendance at the Dublin/Galway game was Donegal and Tyrone's fault. How can anyone take Whelan seriously as a pundit when he comes out with this guff?
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 18/08/2018 01:11:52
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Lads, leave it.
Can you not see that the Kerry lads are bitter.
Not the top team in Ireland. Not even in the top 4.
Maybe 5th best team at most but I would argue Donegal and Mayo are better, so they just may scrape into the top 8.
So since they are not good enough football wise.....
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 18/08/2018 05:23:31
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Seems this Dublin side cannot be beaten on the field according to many comments and people are getting desperate and discussing non-footballing ways to beat this Dublin side. One team can do it on the field this year and that is Tyrone. Looking forward to a brilliant final.
My take on a split is that it'll create two monsters instead of one and that's just the reality of it. Dublin N v Dublin S would be a huge game each year eventually if people (in Dublin) began to accept it. Dublin N would be the stronger of the two sides but Dublin South would catch up over time. Both would attract major sponsors and players could hop from one Dublin side to the other to suit selections. I'd imagine a split would mean two county boards? A whole new county board would require massive investment from the GAA. Dublin South have no stadium. Basically, it'd mean two Dublin sides in the Leinster and all-Ireland Club championships also. The only logical step would be to have a split for the ladies football, camogie and hurling too or it'd be an absolute mess. When you actually look at a split in real terms, it would be a major undertaking for the GAA and highly unlikely to succeed. It's a catch 22 situation, you'd have to do a major (and I mean major) investment in Dublin GAA to make it happen.
FOB (Dublin) - Posts: 912 - 18/08/2018 10:00:40
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Replying To Ulsterman: "Ciaran Whelan thinks the poor attendance at the Dublin/Galway game was Donegal and Tyrone's fault. How can anyone take Whelan seriously as a pundit when he comes out with this guff?" Are you suggesting it was purely Dublin's fault?
Or are you still ignoring direct questions put to you?
And you're suggesting that it's hard to take Whelan seriously?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 18/08/2018 10:00:40
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Replying To tearintom: "Splitting Dublin is a stupid idea.
Simply put though the amount of fudning Dublin gets compared to the rest needs to be seriously re-examined. That's a start and one that should be easily enough implemented. I mean earlier this year we had the sports government capital grants and 11 gaa clubs received the maximum of €150k with 10 of those be8ng Dublin clubs.
When you look at what other counties need to fundraiser to try and compete compared to Dublin it doesn't add up, in 2016 alone the amount that Dublin had for fundraising was €57k compared to what others need to do.
Take mayo in 2016 who in truth spent over €100k more than Dublin, yet had costs of €580k in reavelling alone whilst €447k was catering whilst Dublin have their own official food partner.
Dublin are in a great place and the fact is that none of the financial inequality is of their making, this is a GAA hq problem and GAA hq need to rectify it." What awful inaccurate rubbish you have peddled here. I urge everyone to read this:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/here-are-the-2320-clubs-that-will-get-a-share-of-the-56m-sports-capital-grants-816499.html
These are a listing of everything spent by Government on all sporting clubs and bodies. These are govt and tax payers money they have to be distributed FAIRLY to all tax payers the vast majority of them live in Dublin nearly 33%. So are Dublin taxpayers not entitled to what every one else?
These are capital grants for individual clubs to build and help them out, Plunkets for instance to repair a damaged roof and flood damage to a hall - nothing in list of clubs will give Dublin county teams the edge on the playing field.
So what you are advocating is denying Dublin clubs taxpayers money to improve their infrastructure because they are from Dublin? that is in effect what you are advocating. If clubs have special needs around the country they can apply like everyone else to obtain Govt grant aid. But i suspect you and your won't, can't grasp any of this.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 18/08/2018 10:29:18
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It's a basic finance issue. Super 8's have meant fans have paid and attended two extra matches at the latter stages (expensive stages) of the championship. Despite this, the attendance from a Dublin perspective was grand especially considering Galway don't have any particular footballing rivalry with Dublin. Considering Galway haven't been at this stage in football for a while and the minors were also playing, you'd expect a larger Galway cohort? Again, probably just economics again, many are investing in a hurling match against Limerick which they will be favourites to retain Liam at. Reality is, if it was any side except Galway that qualified, the attendance would have been greater.
The final is only a couple of weeks after the semi and a lot of families who have just had their holidays and are a bit stretched. The scramble for all-Ireland tickets is on and I'd imagine the burden would have been greater on Galway considering they already qualified for the hurling final so less attend. Simple as that, there is no conspiracy.
FOB (Dublin) - Posts: 912 - 18/08/2018 10:36:37
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Replying To Damothedub: "Apart from Kerry where is the appetite for this split? Certainly not Dublin ,you go into political demographics but your case has more holes than a second hand dartboard , you fail consistently to answer where the buck stops on splitting, there are large counties and small counties you would have no issue with Leitrim Longford playing cork or Galway , you don't question the amount of clubs in each county , you have been spouting an uneducated load of nonsense for along time now , your an embarrassment" The post you quoted did say that if an area can have 3 county councils and a city council, having 4 Regions like that should mean it's something to be looked at.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7855 - 18/08/2018 11:02:59
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Replying To StirringIt: "Ah Jez !!!
Are we back to splitting Dublin again !
They have set the standard and it's up to the rest to follow. Mayo came dam close a few times. Are you saying that if they had more money they would have won it ?
Other counties have to look internally to see what can be done. There is a serious lack of commitment to the county panel in my own county. The county board are sending out a questionable to past player to understand why they dropped off.
A lot of it I imagine is time commitment especially those with young families and trying to juggle work and family life.
This Dublin team won't be around forever and soon we will be looking for a new county to split in two !!" As far as back as 2001 when the idea was first mooted, there was an argument for re-classifying Dublin as a province and entering that entity into the Railway Cup. Take a look at the European election constituencies.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7855 - 18/08/2018 11:06:35
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "I can't follow one iota of the logic to your post:
- You want a split of Dublin based on the administrative areas for the local governance of the county? You do know that this would create a severe imbalance in the distribution of GAA resources in the county as the clubs are not evenly spread within county council areas?
- How can your logic be that if an area has 4 county councils, it should be split? This makes absolutely no sense in relation to any argument regarding the GAA, which is completely independent of the county councils. Why not, arbitrarily, split it by voting constituency? At least then you'd have a reasonably consistent population base in each area.
- The Railway Cup doesn't exist. A hybrid version of it last took place in 2016 with a very low turnout in terms of player participation, fan participation / interest, media interest or prestige for winning it. I'd imagine several posters would have to Google who the current champions are. It is also logistically very difficult to get a provincial team together for training etc. I would argue there is no merit in pursuing this option, other than a series of, effectively, friendly matches, which is completely at odds with your assertion that "The Railway Cup is the route for a higher level of competition in both codes"
- On the "both codes" aspect of your post - I haven't heard a single poster / fan / journalist / analyst / etc. looking for pursuing hurling in a Railway Cup format. That makes no sense and I've no idea why you would suggest it
- Similarly, I haven't heard of anyone looking to split Dublin for hurling purposes. Dublin have made reasonable strides in hurling over the last 10-15 years at senior and underage but would not be consistently near the top table in any grade. If you split Dublin GAA for football purposes, you'd be splitting the Dublin GAA Council, which would mean you'd have to split hurling, camogie and ladies football. I would argue the appetite for this among all GAA fans / administrators / players is practically zero.
Your argument appears to me like voting for Brexit - you've focussed on one aspect without having any idea of how to actually implement it or the ramifications of it getting through." The fall and neglect of the Railway Cup is a disgrace. Dublin is a province. The platform has to be created for Dublin to compete in a competitive Railway Cup that is given it's rightful place as the highest level of competition for the sport.
In such a scenario, proper dialogue will have to take place on the makeup of different Regions within Dublin to compete at inter-county level.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7855 - 18/08/2018 11:13:50
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Replying To tearintom: "Splitting Dublin is a stupid idea.
Simply put though the amount of fudning Dublin gets compared to the rest needs to be seriously re-examined. That's a start and one that should be easily enough implemented. I mean earlier this year we had the sports government capital grants and 11 gaa clubs received the maximum of €150k with 10 of those be8ng Dublin clubs.
When you look at what other counties need to fundraiser to try and compete compared to Dublin it doesn't add up, in 2016 alone the amount that Dublin had for fundraising was €57k compared to what others need to do.
Take mayo in 2016 who in truth spent over €100k more than Dublin, yet had costs of €580k in reavelling alone whilst €447k was catering whilst Dublin have their own official food partner.
Dublin are in a great place and the fact is that none of the financial inequality is of their making, this is a GAA hq problem and GAA hq need to rectify it." What Dublin have brought to the game needs to be embraced. A properly structured Railway Cup is the rightful platform for the level they have achieved with their vast resources and catchment area. It'll bring the sport to a whole new competitive level.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7855 - 18/08/2018 11:19:15
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