I saw something in the paper over the weekend where John O'Leary made a comment that Dublin should stop "fluting" about with the ball & right enough they seem to have changed their attacking style completely this year.

Up to now it was thrilling all out attack with teams being cut open from all angles but this year there has been a definite change in approach with them being much more patient & recycling the ball over & back until an opening becomes available. Neither would we have seen the "keep ball" we saw against Donegal in previous years.

Now before the usual suspects start jumping up & down, may I say that Dublin are perfectly entitled to play any way they want & if a version of Donegal circa 2012 works for them then that's fine by me. I'm just curious as to why they have taken this approach.

Is it because flair players like Bernard & Diarmuid are no longer there or is there something else going on? It seems to be working fine for them but there is no doubt that it is not as thrilling to watch as before.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 31/07/2018 13:00:06    2127836

Thrills me just fine as long as they win.

Workingclass (Mayo) - Posts: 26 - 31/07/2018 23:05:59    2128069

I think that mindset was there since the aftermath of your ambush in '14. But there is also probably some truth in what you say.
More to the point I think it's because Gavin wants to ensure history is made and is not too bothered about the entertainment business, been there, done that.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 01/08/2018 00:35:48    2128085

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 01/08/2018 00:36:02    2128086

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 01/08/2018 00:49:51    2128089

rossy15 (Roscommon) - Posts: 617 - 01/08/2018 08:19:19    2128116

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 01/08/2018 08:45:46    2128122

They played with plenty of flair in Leinster but missed too many goal chances

Then they switched it up when playing Donegal and Tyrone (away from home)

That's what makes Dublin great. They can play whatever way you want and adapt to their opponents approach.

The best way to beat defence first approach teams is to play a bit like them and then if you build a lead their tactic goes out the window and you can hold possession while they still sit back in the same defensive system.. while losing!

As I said before it's like rubbing a cream pie into the face of such tactics. It nullifies unbalanced teams.

Despite all that.. have you seen what Dublin have scored in this years championship? It's impressive.. while missing at least 10 good goal chances. The real plus on top of that is that Dublin have only conceded 1 goal against Wicklow...

So there's the balance.. still scoring heavily but also defending very well and not giving away goals.

Dublin are the most adaptable team in GAA history and there's not been many teams as balanced.

They can play anyway you like... and against Donegal and Tyrone they turned themselves into the most potent, strong and skillful Ulster side in the country.

The flair is there and if you're brave enough to setup in such a manner.. you'll soon find it out

Gavin is doing a wonderful job. I sometimes wonder if people have forgotten that he is trying to transition new players and keep the team evolving while trying to achieve 4 in a row and win a treble once again in order to achieve it.

Things are going to plan so far.

Jaysus Muck you're turning into McGuinness the amount you talk about Dublin. No better way to be noticed wha!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/08/2018 08:56:54    2128124

I do think theres a subtle difference though.

For example at the end of the Monaghan game against Kerry Monaghan started playing keep ball to plain and simply run down the clock, nothing else and it worked against them.

Dublin on the other had play keep ball with a view to attack, hold the ball hold the ball draw the team out and exploit the space.

Lets face it at this stage Dublin can adapt to whatever style is required, if your winning games at a canter the need for all out attacking etc isnt required.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1341 - 01/08/2018 09:08:27    2128127

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/08/2018 09:16:43    2128129

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 01/08/2018 09:36:01    2128138

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/08/2018 10:06:27    2128149

I think Gavin is cutting his cloth to fit in most cases. Gavin's tactical preparation for games is a sight to behold. I mean tactics wise have you ever seen anyone get it so right in a game like they did against Tyrone last year. It was like he knew what Tyrone were going to do before Tyrone did.
I think at this stage he probably doesn't care how it looks as long as they're winning games and managing games appropriately. This could work against Dublin though, they're so used to being ahead in games we're yet to see how this version would respond if they were 3 down with 10 minutes to go. If you go back to the Kerry semi final in 2016, most other teams would never have been able to respond the way Dublin did that day. But more importantly, it was the likes of Kevin McMannamon, Eoghan O'Gara and Diarmaid Connolly that got the last 3 points to win the game.
Although 2 of those players are still available, I don't think either are in the form they were 2 years ago. I know Bernard only got 2 points that day but his unselfish running and creating space for others caused gaps in most defences that Dublin were able to exploit. Connolly required the opposition to have their own special defensive plan for him (if you didn't have a Lee Keegan in your team). Dublins bench doesn't look as threatening as it once was in terms of attacking potency especially in the form that some of their forwards are in.
Cormac Costelloe is still waiting to fulfill his potential after all these years, Con O'Callaghan looks a little bit burnt out, Mannion can't equate his scoring to the same level as his defending while the likes of Andrews and McMennamon, although still very good options, don't carry the same menace they did 2 or 3 years ago. The likes of Rock, Scully, Kilkenny and Howard are all putting in great shifts and its not as if they aren't scoring but they're certainly more conservative in their shot selection.
I think there is an element of transition in all of this but I think we won't really know how good this current forward line is until they really have to score.

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 01/08/2018 10:16:31    2128156

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 01/08/2018 11:10:40    2128171

I have thought for a long time that everyone is GAA, Dublin fans, other managers, media and other supports are behind the curve on what Gavin is doing with Dublin.

I've seen a lot of people say our forward line hasnt been as good especially Mannion and Con being out of form, on conventional forward judging they are, but I've watched all ours games back a few times now and the work and movement of both was exceptional. Mannion making a last ditch steal for a certain goal in the full back position against Tyrone a case in point. The job of our forwards isnt to score essentially they are decoys who also have other duties. We are essentially playing with five half forwards in my opinion and most of our scores come from deep.
This allows us to flood, half back and midfield lines and out fielding this year has been immense our winning of dirty ball is very good, our support play is excellent and our back lines are as comfortable pushing up as our forward lines are at pushing back, we are the sum of many many moving parts and a thinking team that makes decisions as the game or pattern or opposition tactic evolves throughout the game.

I've pushed the idea of Jim creating hybrid footballers all year, I really believe this is the case. The players are being coached to play in every position across the lines, each line is flooded depending on the need, the forwards job is not particularly to score put to move players around for others to flood the forward line. It's massively intricate and revolutionary. Look at players like Scully, Mannion, Kilkenny, Howard, Copper, McCarthy, Jack, O Sullivan they are as comfortable playing in either the back line, half back line, midfield, half forward or forward line as their "set" positions I think we as supporters are even way behind in recognizing what Jim is trying to do and judge whats going on this year through a traditional lenses of how teams set up.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/08/2018 11:23:40    2128175

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/08/2018 11:48:50    2128183

Having hybrid footballers is all well and good but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll pose the same threat up front when its required. I'm all for everyone tracking back, putting in the same work as each other working as a team etc but a day will come when Dublin will be behind and they'll need to get the ball to players who can pop the ball over the bar.
If you go back to the recent Tyrone game, the real greatness of this Dublin team was the fact that the team could share the burden of scoring. The forwards didn't score much but the defence did. Like you say Username, the forwards were tracking back and putting in terrific tackles up and down the pitch. This works when you play teams that are putting 13 / 14 men behind the ball and the game is worn down to a battle of attrition.
I think that 'might' not work as well if Dublin come into the last 10 minutes a few points down. Its all good to play keep ball when you have a lead but if the opposition don't have to come out to meet you and your forwards are not in form to be scoring points from 40 yards out all of a sudden this style changes. This isn't too far away from what McGuinness brought to Donegal previously so I won't go so far as to say its revolutionary. Right now the Dublin forwards look like a bunch of Jim Gavins when he was playing.
Honest hard working players but no flair or ingenuity up front the likes of which Connolly and the Brogans provided previously.
I understand why he's playing this way, but football games can take up a life of their own. You only have to look at that 2016 semi against Kerry where Kerry got 2 freak goals before half time and the game was turned on its head completely. Although Dublin came back in that game really well, Kerry still managed to go 3 up in the last 10 minutes and it came down to a pure shoot out. I'd really wonder how the current Dublin set up would have handled that game compared to the 2016 vintage

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 01/08/2018 11:55:01    2128184

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 01/08/2018 12:11:59    2128192

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/08/2018 14:12:29    2128242

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 01/08/2018 14:14:09    2128243